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NEWS: TV Tokyo's Iwata Discusses Anime's 'Road to Survival'


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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4563
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:27 pm Reply with quote
hikaru004 wrote:

Another aspect of the R2 release is that they get physical extras with the SE releases on top of the packaging. In cases like Clannad, the physical extras were amazing (deck of cards, minature music box thingy..). In comparison, the only company that's come close to emulating this is Bandai Ent with their SE releases of Lucky Star, Haruhi, Gurren Lagann and Code Geass.

But what in the world is the point of all of those doo-dads in the end? I bought the special-edition first volume of Gurren-Lagann because I wanted the cool-looking box to hold the single disks, and while I thought that the light-up Core Drill it came with was kind of fun, ultimately, all it's going to do is gather dust on a shelf somewhere. It's the same with the Choro Q figures of Lupin and Jigen that have been sitting on my dresser gathering dust for a year or two (and the only reason I have those is because they cost the same as the normal volumes in one of RightStuf's old Geneon blowout sales). I already have a few dozen Lego sets scattered around my room, and all they do for me at the present is take an inordinate amount of time and effort to dust...I don't need to add any more junk to that pile. I buy anime on DVDs to own the shows, not a bunch of assorted knick-knacks.

For my money (literally), Bandai's Anime Legends re-releases and the like are the best thing to ever happen to R1 anime distribution. When I can legally own a high-quality series for all of $40 or less, I'm on cloud nine. I can only hope that some Japanese anime fans have discovered the joys of reverse-importation, in order to avoid the utterly insane prices they're subjected to.
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marzipan.dragon



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:29 pm Reply with quote
SnaphappyFMA wrote:
it's hard to beat fansubs, especially for ongoing series like Bleach. [...] Hopefully the current experiment with Crunchyroll's anime membership model will lead to additional distribution channels of the same ilk.


Bleach - I just watched a fansubbed episode 204... Embarassed...and the new R1 DVD 14 just released is only episodes 54-58.

Please remove the speed limits from the 'Road to Survival' Wink


FYI, I'm sure there's others out there like me - I buy a few nice/expensive R2 DVDs when I can, but it's irksome to have to use one computer for R2 and another for R1...and there's no subtitles...but the only other option is to wait for ages for a possible US licensed DVD. Personally I'd be happy to pay a reasonable monthly fee to watch shows now, and I'd buy much of what I watch later on DVD, especially if it's released shortly after. IMHO.
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1540
Location: This space for rent
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:47 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:

But what in the world is the point of all of those doo-dads in the end? I bought the special-edition first volume of Gurren-Lagann because I wanted the cool-looking box to hold the single disks, and while I thought that the light-up Core Drill it came with was kind of fun, ultimately, all it's going to do is gather dust on a shelf somewhere. It's the same with the Choro Q figures of Lupin and Jigen that have been sitting on my dresser gathering dust for a year or two (and the only reason I have those is because they cost the same as the normal volumes in one of RightStuf's old Geneon blowout sales). I already have a few dozen Lego sets scattered around my room, and all they do for me at the present is take an inordinate amount of time and effort to dust...I don't need to add any more junk to that pile. I buy anime on DVDs to own the shows, not a bunch of assorted knick-knacks.

For my money (literally), Bandai's Anime Legends re-releases and the like are the best thing to ever happen to R1 anime distribution. When I can legally own a high-quality series for all of $40 or less, I'm on cloud nine. I can only hope that some Japanese anime fans have discovered the joys of reverse-importation, in order to avoid the utterly insane prices they're subjected to.


I'm sure some Japanese have realized the wisdom in importing and watching the original audio track.

But yeah, the little extras can be nice, but if I really just care about the show, Anime Legends, thinpaks, half-season sets are godsends. Again, sure the packaging may be nothing special, but sometimes pinching pennies is a smarter move than spending $200 for the single volumes.
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Ktimene's Lover



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 2242
Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:56 pm Reply with quote
This is a very interesting discussion. More companies should do the following:
1. Simultaneous release
2. Legitimately subbed DVDs for a decent price.
3. Legitimate scanlations by the company.
4. other things I don't want to list right now.
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marek1712



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 128
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:28 am Reply with quote
crilix wrote:
Oh yeah, what a way to embarass yourself by quoting a BLOG whose sole purpose is to ENTERTAIN.

WOW, any links before further embarassing yourself? Because only things you do is making hypothesis...
Even ANN's TV Ranking proves that it's hard for ANY new series to get into top 3:
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-01-23/japanese-anime-tv-ranking-january-5-11
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The_Libertarian_Otaku



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:18 am Reply with quote
letniinside wrote:
Solutions:
Be like or even more than "fansubs"
1. Research about hardsubbing on fansubs! Try to observe their quality (from karaoke, translations, Fonts, colors, effects, etc)
2. Karaoke:
a. Put kanji karaoke
b. Put romanized japanese karaoke
c. Put Good & Decent, Concise translation
d. Put Special effects, colors & good font effect etc. esp in execution of words just like in karaoke
3. translation/subtitle:
Good, decent & concise translation.
Good font effects, color, capturing 'moods' into fonts/subtitles especially in execution of techniques ei. naruto techniques.
Not all japanese terms can be translated to english so it should stay as is but provide supplemental notes & trivia about it.


No, no, GOD F***IN' NO! Mad Need I direct you to Otaking's fansub documentary? (The guy behind it translates VIDEO GAMES and NOVELS for a living, and you just mentioned what's wrong with fansubs. ) Karaoke, mix-and-match translations, fancy colored font effects, and GOD FORBID kanji subtitles have NO PLACE in any translation of anime! (Because the director did NOT intend for his work to be seen with up to THREE lines of subtitle text!)

As for text-animation effects, very bad idea, as they distract the eye from where you should be paying attention: The animation and artwork. If you're going to watch your anime subbed, you should be able to read the subtitles and not even notice them, and with action-laden scenes, you especially need a plain, readable subtitle. Why do you think proper DVD subtitles have always been plain?

Quote:
4. Notes/signs.
of course, provide translation (over/superimpose) of every kanji signs & it should move esp in moving scenes.
provide SUPPLEMENTAL notes/trivias esp difficult deep japanese terms & especially 'pun'


If you're going to translate a sign, just put a hardsub and leave it at that.

As for supplemental notes, those do NOT belong on the screen where they clutter up the animation and artwork! It's like taking a piss all over a Picasso, then killing it with fire. If you're going to put in supplemental notes, take a lesson from AnimEigo's release of Otaku No Video and bundle in a booklet with the notes, so you can read them at your leisure without ruining the damn screen! (Media Blasters did the same thing with their release of Genshiken.)

Quote:
5. for DVD releases: As above
NO ENGLISH DUBBED PLEASE, kinda SU CKS. Too cartoony, to cheesy, to gayish (some accent even if the character is not gay).
No english dubbed esp from FUNIMATION, TOO HORRIBLE. I've seen this character in DARKER than Black (dubbed), theres a french accent that is HORRIBLY INAUDIBLE that subs are a MUST. Plus they have tons of gayish accent sounding dubbed (no offense to gays- nothing against you) or in short the dubbed doesnt match the characters.
The only good & decent dubbed are from BANDAI, esp COWBOY BEBOP.
6. Honorifics STAYs AS IS in sub & dub. I've seen a lot of dubbed that horribly murdering honorifics.


1. Sub-only? Do you WANT to kill sales? Carl Macek was right in saying this and so am I: Anime needs to be DUBBED to reach the widest possible audience. By the way, 1995 called--they want their anti-dub arguement back.

2. NO GODDAMN HONORIFICS! Mad We do NOT say "san", "chan", "sama", "sempai", etc., in the West, so why should they be in dubs and subs of anime, or even live-action J-flicks?

The only reasons why anyone would do ersatz translations of anything: E-penis, showing off just how much obscure Japanese knowledge and cultural trivia they've got, and distorting the message to fit the translator's own intellectual and emotional outlook.

You, Good Sir, seem to fit the same category as people who watch fansubs: Wanting shitty ersatz translations and flashy text effects cluttering up the screen. If you can find an anime fan who can actually watch their favorite shows with that mess of text obscuring the show itself, I'll buy you a new car.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:33 am Reply with quote
The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:
letniinside wrote:
Solutions:
Be like or even more than "fansubs"
...


No, no, GOD FUCKIN' NO! Mad Need I direct you to Otaking's fansub documentary?
...
(ranty crap)
...


Um, no. Totally disagree with frikkin everything you just said. I'm not gonna bother going point by point because in the end I can't convince you and you can't convince me.

"Libertarian" eh, yeah, so what happened to choice? What happened to allowing people to prefer what they want? If they offered that style (see Marimite and Excel Saga), I'll buy it and you don't need to.
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1540
Location: This space for rent
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:45 am Reply with quote
But what if that "choice" is putting a strain on the legitimate industry and it's something you get without paying a dime to the original creators? Why do people need those ugly karaoke fonts and on-screen translation notes that ugly up the screen?
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Shadowlord



Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:07 am Reply with quote
I too don't need kanji and romaji karaoke, different font colors and effects and so on. Just subtitles in a good readable font. Putting translations of signs OVER the actual sign is a very bad thing some fansubbers do. The japanese text should stay readable in the movie. That's too much westernalizing the movie in my opinion. I'd also say: no honorifics.

I also think dubs suck. That's mostly because translations seem more far out than in most subs. Also voices often don't fit to the characters. No, I would never watch a dubbed anime (neither in my native language nor English), but I understand that many people want to watch dubbed anime. Fine, but I don't want to spend money on a voicedub if I never watch it and don't even like it. But by buying anime on DVD with dub included I also pay for the dub.

A GOOD translation is most important. After learning japanese at university for some years now I know that this isn't always an easy thing to do...

btw.: Simultaneous releases in the USA won't change much, because the USA aren't the rest of the world!!
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The_Libertarian_Otaku



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:07 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:
letniinside wrote:
Solutions:
Be like or even more than "fansubs"
...


No, no, GOD FUCKIN' NO! Mad Need I direct you to Otaking's fansub documentary?
...
(ranty crap)
...


Um, no. Totally disagree with frikkin everything you just said. I'm not gonna bother going point by point because in the end I can't convince you and you can't convince me.

"Libertarian" eh, yeah, so what happened to choice? What happened to allowing people to prefer what they want? If they offered that style (see Marimite and Excel Saga), I'll buy it and you don't need to.


"Choice" also includes choosing to speak now or forever hold your peace. He spoke his peace, and I did the same. Put that in your Ramune bottle and drink it, ese.
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abdallhkritm



Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 2
Location: egypt
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:12 am Reply with quote
Quote:
the Japanese companies cannot rely on the Middle East


what i know the market for anime in middle east is can be grow up and make a major market place success ..

but anime always have some things that make it not well to do that one of these things Echi scene that make the anime totally refusing to show things like this and we know naruto for example he turn to naked girl or something like soul eater its have some that like this ...or something ridiculous in hajime no ipo "show stuf in bath or some where else"

but i know there is a lot who really love Echi and those things but i mean good anime may be already killed for global success when some culture can not be showing in other regions and that's what i believe


the anime still have a success in Middle east like Grendizer or other old anime cause it was have the good what its need to be in dub companies that is now disappear and feel sorry for that

but now in Middle east there is only one company that dub anime and make a distortion and cut the scene with poor dub for kids and that will not make any success for that cause this company already hated by anime fans in this region

any way i believe anime is still have a good market place in Middle East and as i anime fan and others in Middle East who hope to make a good company shows anime as it should be and make good market place and expand it...

so there is a way to make a success there but its should be some support to make that and not just rely on one company already heated for suits the anime for kids

p.s. sorry for my bad english
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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:12 am Reply with quote
marek1712 wrote:
crilix wrote:
Oh yeah, what a way to embarass yourself by quoting a BLOG whose sole purpose is to ENTERTAIN.

WOW, any links before further embarassing yourself? Because only things you do is making hypothesis...
Even ANN's TV Ranking proves that it's hard for ANY new series to get into top 3:
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-01-23/japanese-anime-tv-ranking-january-5-11
Oh yeah, buddy, you got me there, linking to a reputable website for a change. Rolling Eyes

You obviously don't understand why those series are at the top. Top TV anime ratings belong to shows such as Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan and One Piece because they are KIDS/FAMILY shows that air either in the mornings or evening prime time. The most popular otaku TV anime will never reach that Top 10 because they air after midnight, essentially they're not created for the mainstream market. The most popular otaku shows from any year couldn't break the 5% ratings limit (which translates to something like 2,3 million viewers in Japan). The only otaku shows that came close to such TV ratings had either very good timeslots (Gintama, Shugo Chara!, Hayate no Gotoku!) or had a large non-otaku following already (Nodame Cantabile). It's also very important to note that TV ratings for otaku anime almost never determine their success. One such example would be Code Geass R2 that had piss-poor ratings for its TV time slot, yet it has managed to outsell pretty much every otaku series last year except Macross Frontier (that also didn't make it to your precious Top 10).
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1540
Location: This space for rent
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:15 am Reply with quote
Shadowlord wrote:
I too don't need kanji and romaji karaoke, different font colors and effects and so on. Just subtitles in a good readable font. Putting translations of signs OVER the actual sign is a very bad thing some fansubbers do. The japanese text should stay readable in the movie. That's too much westernalizing the movie in my opinion. I'd also say: no honorifics.

I also think dubs suck. That's mostly because translations seem more far out than in most subs. Also voices often don't fit to the characters. No, I would never watch a dubbed anime (neither in my native language nor English), but I understand that many people want to watch dubbed anime. Fine, but I don't want to spend money on a voicedub if I never watch it and don't even like it. But by buying anime on DVD with dub included I also pay for the dub.

A GOOD translation is most important. After learning japanese at university for some years now I know that this isn't always an easy thing to do...

btw.: Simultaneous releases in the USA won't change much, because the USA aren't the rest of the world!!


EARTH TO SHADOWLORD -- MOST people don't get those cultural references and actually enjoy listening to their own language, so it makes more sense to give an equivalent cultural reference that works just as well. I'm so sick of whiny uber-otaku who think the cultural references are this pure, beautiful thing that should not be sullied by being replaced for the sake of having it make sense to a Western audience.

And please, the whole "DUBS ARE AWFUL" thing is really, really old. But by that line of thinking, you make it sound like you're justified in watching fansubs because DVDs have English dubs, AND the subtitles often rework things into English equivalents. Logic = broken, much?
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:02 am Reply with quote
The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:
configspace wrote:
The_Libertarian_Otaku wrote:
letniinside wrote:
Solutions:
Be like or even more than "fansubs"
...


No, no, GOD FUCKIN' NO! Mad Need I direct you to Otaking's fansub documentary?
...
(ranty crap)
...


Um, no. Totally disagree with frikkin everything you just said. I'm not gonna bother going point by point because in the end I can't convince you and you can't convince me.

"Libertarian" eh, yeah, so what happened to choice? What happened to allowing people to prefer what they want? If they offered that style (see Marimite and Excel Saga), I'll buy it and you don't need to.


"Choice" also includes choosing to speak now or forever hold your peace. He spoke his peace, and I did the same. Put that in your Ramune bottle and drink it, ese.


The problem is that your choice involves the suppression other peoples choice. Lastly, we're not in the barrio, vato.
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poweranime



Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 51
Location: Los Angeles
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:16 am Reply with quote
hmmm.. i wouldn't say NGE caused the global appreciation of anime... its more like that's the time when the Internet started really kicking in as a way to see anime online... dragonball was one of the most searched things on Yahoo/Lycos for about 10 years...

I actually welcome if the Japanese went back to catering to there own audience... i felt most of the 'experimental' animesque type titles sucked anyways... it was always the use of the Japanese culture and Japanese point of view that drew me to anime in the first place, and I think many titles are missing that value since they're trying to get 'global'
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