Forum - View topicNEWS: Bandai Entertainment Delays Some Titles
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Jarmel
Posts: 280 Location: NYC |
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@Unit03.5-ish
Tell that to the millions of people, especially Americans, who use Tivo. Tivo pretty much obliterated the anti-fansub argument. You know how the American television companies make a profit off of tv shows, either by advertisement or by DVDs. Guess which got eliminated? So how did American companies respond? They either sold more DVDs or found ways around it. Just acting elitist and saying you have to pay for a show that you think is crap is just stupid. A consumer has the RIGHT to pick which companies he gives his money to and how to support. No idiot should pay for something without trying it first. Do you buy a BMW without giving it a test drive(and you still might not buy it even after), or buy a TV series without watching it either on TV or online, or buy a book without reading a passage(some people might do this but guess why Barnes and Noble is so popular). You're an idiot if you blindly buy something without knowing the quality unless you want to support the anime companies, even though they don't get that much of your money as Funimation and the retailers get a slice. A better way would be to buy R2 DVDs or donate directly to the anime companies. So tell you what, you go after everyone who uses Tivo, pirates music, watches TV online without commercials, pirates movies, or anything of the like (oh and you'll be talking in the double digits millions) and then we'll talk. Of course you haven't done any of these things once right? Buying DVDs doesn't make you a "better" anime fan but rather someone who has money and likes a product that a company is producing or you are trying via very indirectly to support the original anime producers or US distribution companies. Nothing more, nothing less. Oh btw guess who got record profits last year? http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/01/what-piracy-movie-biz-sees-record-box-office-in-2008.ars @Sakagami For the most part thats true. Look at the people lining up to pay for the Sennheiser HD 800, which is 1400. Of course not everybody is willing to pay that much but if you want it that bad then you'll find someway either through a loan or what have you. Once again I'm not saying it's logical or anything like that but if you want something you'll find a way to get it. It really boils down to simple economics and opportunity costs. If you believe the the item is worth more than what you are paying(either through time or money or what have you) than you'll get it. I'm not saying everybody should buy singles or anything like that but it's the companies job to produce a product that motivates you to buy it (look at the Sony PS3 model and what some of the execs have said, although it hasn't been a shining example, they do have some solid points). If the anime companies are producing moe and DVD sales are down in the US, should the consumers be held responsible for not buying a product that doesn't appeal to them, or should the anime producers be held responsible for taking a calculated risk by appeasing their domestic fanbase? Last edited by Jarmel on Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Jarmel -- it doesn't give you the right to say you don't want to buy it legally because the show sucked. Imagine trying to tell the theater managers you want your money back because the movie you saw was terrible, or that you wanted a full refund for a video game because you didn't like the first level? I realize fansubs cost you no money, but deciding you don't want to buy it just because it was terrible DOES cheat the companies out of money.
And for your information, I don't do that stuff, I don't have TiVo, I don't pirate movies, oh, and if I wanted to watch TV shows online, there's a LEGAL place called Fancast for that. Diehard fansubbies just LOVE to trot out the same tired arguments, but it boils down to making excuses for not wanting to spend your money if you can get it for free. Truth is, most fansubaholics won't pay for shows they happen to LIKE, either, because they're selfish bastards who don't know how economics work. |
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Jarmel
Posts: 280 Location: NYC |
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Why do you think fewer people go to the movies nowadays? Why do you think Gamestop's used video game section is popular that they are planing on making 2 billion off of it? So what if the companies don't get money for a product I don't like? If the anime sucked then they can only blame themselves when a product doesn't sell. Consumers do have rights even if it costs the companies money.
However once again I'm assuming you're going after everyone equally. There are millions of people who use all of the things I mentioned and you know what things aren't going to change to how they were and all media companies are going to HAVE to adapt or they go bankrupt(unless the government bails them out, but that's another matter). There really is no true alternative for anime in the US where anime fans can watch shows live or somewhat close to it. Hell people in the US pirate shows that actually do appear on TV. So you have never read part of a book in Barnes and Nobles and then not bought the book, or read part of a newspaper and not buy it because it doesn't interest you, or listen to a song in music store via their preview system(like Virgin stores do) and not buy the CD, or watch TV and change the channel when commercials come on, or use a trial version of a program and then not buy the deluxe edition? For the record I buy more anime than a good majority of people(I really hate linking to personal stuff). You know why? Because I like certain animes enough to spend my money on it even if I have to go a few days hungry(and I'm in college). However not everyone is as lucky as me and have to pay real world expenses. Once again it is the job of a company to produce something that makes people want to sell an arm and a leg for, there will always be people that never buy something when they get it for free but that's life. Getting angry and up in flames over it isn't going to solve anything, if you really want to solve the fansub problem come up with a business model and try and get some distribution company to seriously look at it. http://jarmel.dvdaf.com/owned |
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SongstressCela
 Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Lol, what? Where the hell do you get that from? I hate people that keep fansubs and don't support the actual release! |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
 Posts: 940 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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Look, I support the idea that people should buy the shows they like... but demanding that people pay for even the shows they didn't like? And where do you draw the line? Should someone be forced to buy a show because they watched the first three episodes fansubbed? Half the series but got sick of it? Watching the whole show and thinking it's decent up until an especially bad Wall Banger ending that made the viewer want to strangle the director? And for that matter, are you differentiating between fansubs and things like borrowing from friends? Should I have to go out and buy Jubei-chan because a friend lent it to me thinking I'd like it, but I thought it was terrible?
This may depend on individual cinema, but I believe that with most if you leave the screening within a certain time of the start and ask for a refund, you get one. And game demos exist for a reason. So do rentals.
Not if I was never intending to buy the title before seeing it via other means. In any case, are you hearing yourself? The consumer must buy the product, even if it's crap?
Most people I know who watch fansubs are perfectly willing to buy the shows they like. I dunno, maybe I just happen to know the small minority who aren't complete tightarses. There's no denying that there are some cheap bastards that won't buy if they can get for free, but can you acknowledge that there might also be other people who have bought shows that they otherwise would not have because they had opportunity to see them for free? |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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If only every show did get a R1 release. Sadly some of the best ones will never come here. |
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SongstressCela
Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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No, he can't, obviously. He's clearly still calling me out on watching fansubs despite me directing an eye to My Anime link and offering photographic evidence if he doesn't believe it. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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If there was a way to legally preview anime, that'd be...oh wait, there's these crazy sites like Crunchyroll that host them legally. What. A. SHOCK!
But seriously, semantics aside, Bandai is having trouble like everyone else, so I would hope people would be interested in throwing them a bone and BUYING their shows. I know people tire of my (and others') arguments against their precious digisubs, but I, for one, plan to keep supporting the R1 industry -- like by grabbing all of GL when the last release comes out (get here faster, March!). |
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SongstressCela
Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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I'm really beginning to get curious now. Is like...is part of your brain shut off or something? Do you have some defect that makes it impossible to fathom the idea that people can both watch fansubs and subsequently purchase a DVD? I'm really wanting to know here. Don't leave me hangin'.
Oooh, here's something that'll really blow your mind.  I just downloaded DUBBED first episodes of Kurau and Innocent Venus last night, and watched them. Gasp! Want to know what happened then?
I took my mouse...went to the bot's XDCC list tab in Firefox... . . . ...then I went to Rightstuf.com and purchased both series in full. GASP! |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Meh, fansubs. I'll never apologize for watching them. I own over 200 R1 titles--still have to finish inputting them into My Anime, but it's a project. I've bought far more anime than I ever would have if fansubs weren't available. I get burned sometimes even renting--both ways, actually, because the first volume doesn't represent the show well enough to either scare me off or send me to TRSI's home page. Like, that $300 useless set of Eureka 7 DVDs... After that, I made a firm policy to watch a series far enough that I could be sure before spending that kind of money on it. I still rent, but it's just the old stuff, of which there is plenty. Anything new I've already seen, these days anyway and have decided whether or not to buy when/if it's licensed.
I'm also one that thinks many shows that will never get licensed here are some of the best anime. Just last season at least half my favorites I would bet will never air here, even on Crunchyroll because they contain too much material objectionable or just strange to Americans. It's fine to rant about fansub watchers who don't also buy DVDs, but I doubt there are many of those actually on this forum. There is a point to be made, too, about the chicken little syndrome. Media companies have cried the end is near every time a new technology has put more control and more choice in the hands of the consumer. I love and respect all artists, but the business they work in is wicked city. If it were up to the movie studios, we would never have had VCRs. |
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Sakagami Tomoyo
Posts: 940 Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia |
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What makes you think I'm not? |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Let me take this further.
It's OK to download a rip of a movie...as long as you buy the DVD later. You can download the ISOs for a Wii game and burn them to a disc and play it...as long as you buy the game later. You can bogart MP3s from the Internet...as long as you buy it on iTunes later. Because somehow, buying it magically negates the fact that you did something against the law in the first place. 
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walw6pK4Alo
Posts: 9322 |
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Fansubs aren't the same thing as tangible DVDs though. It's hard justifying fansubs, except that you can't predict which titles will ever come over, and if they do, it'll be years later. As for burning Wii iso, we did it for tatsunoko versus capcom, because that's not coming over. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Companies DO seem to be attempting to get shows over here more quickly nowadays. FUNi, at least, has announced that a number of titles -- which are fairly recent as far as their Japanese release goes -- will be coming here rather soon. Kudos to the companies trying to get titles overseas with more expedience.
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SongstressCela
Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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...Hardly. o_O Some years back you could count on almost everything under the sun to get licensed. Nowadays, my "to watch" list consists of a majority of titles that aren't even on the horizon, let alone "licensed and coming out in the future."
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