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Inconsistent Moderating


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Saffire



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1255
Location: Iowa, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:23 pm Reply with quote
superdry wrote:
Sometimes it is hard to report (which post are you going to report? All of them?) when it someone starts out as an instigator and the discussion hasn't yet taken the turn for the worse until it's a little too late. I highly doubt the people who are involved will report each other since they love spewing vitriol at each other and some bystanders either don't care (avoid the thread), like to see the battle go on even though it might be some stupid argument or maybe hope the people who are arguing will stop at some point.
There's a comment section on reports for a reason. Say "This thread is out of control" and someone will look at it and decide what the course of action is. I don't understand what the problem is unless your assumption is that the mod won't actually look at the thread.
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Surrender Artist



Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3264
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:34 pm Reply with quote
I'm sometimes hesitant to report posts. Part of it is that I don't want to seem like an overactive, compulsive scold. The other part I'm often not sure if something is really violating the rules or represents a problem. I could see an argument for being willing to report anything that seems potentially problematical and letting the moderators sort out whether it or or not, but I can see problems with that. The first being that such an activist approach could end up flooding the reports with a petty nothings that don't merit action, which could be a distraction from real problems and make the moderators a little cynical about my reports. The second is that if only a few people who aren't a representative sample of the membership take an activist approach, it might create biases in moderator activity driven by the biases of the people reporting, which could create some annoying behavioral distortions and hurt moderator credibility.

I also have smaller things that I'm not sure about, such as how much I should write in post reports, I try to be pretty succinct, and whether its appropriate for me to report posts in a thread that I'm neither active nor invested in, but happen to notice some troublesome behavior in.

I've probably overthought this some, but I feel like the basic, underlying uncertain has some merit, so I've been a little circumspect about reporting posts.
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:40 pm Reply with quote
Saffire wrote:
There's a comment section on reports for a reason. Say "This thread is out of control" and someone will look at it and decide what the course of action is.


That makes sense, put in a generic comment regarding what's happening in the thread of question.
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Keonyn
Subscriber



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
I'm sometimes hesitant to report posts. Part of it is that I don't want to seem like an overactive, compulsive scold. The other part I'm often not sure if something is really violating the rules or represents a problem. I could see an argument for being willing to report anything that seems potentially problematical and letting the moderators sort out whether it or or not, but I can see problems with that. The first being that such an activist approach could end up flooding the reports with a petty nothings that don't merit action, which could be a distraction from real problems and make the moderators a little cynical about my reports. The second is that if only a few people who aren't a representative sample of the membership take an activist approach, it might create biases in moderator activity driven by the biases of the people reporting, which could create some annoying behavioral distortions and hurt moderator credibility.

I also have smaller things that I'm not sure about, such as how much I should write in post reports, I try to be pretty succinct, and whether its appropriate for me to report posts in a thread that I'm neither active nor invested in, but happen to notice some troublesome behavior in.

I've probably overthought this some, but I feel like the basic, underlying uncertain has some merit, so I've been a little circumspect about reporting posts.


Well, working out what's a problem and what is not is what we're here for. I take every situation on a case by case basis. Even something that seems small can create a big problem, and you sometimes have to look at the persons intent and what they're adding to the discussion. Take Chagen's post in the Qwaser thread recently where he started that whole ball rolling by implying that people watching the show were just doing it for the tits. It adds nothing to the discussion and was obviously intended to incite a negative reaction. It's trolling, and it didn't get reported, which is basically what sent the thread spiralling downwards.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23624
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:00 pm Reply with quote
Just popping in for a second here for some ANN mod/admin appreciation. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I've been a member of several different discussion forums over the years (none of which were anime-related) and I have to say that ANN is hands down the best run discussion board I've ever come across. One of the things that stands out for me is that I never get the sense - as I have at other boards - that the mod/admins here are power-tripping. At other boards, you could sense the palpable glee when some of the mods/admins went about their business. I don't get that feeling here and it's much appreciated.
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Dessa



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4438
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
I'm sometimes hesitant to report posts. Part of it is that I don't want to seem like an overactive, compulsive scold. The other part I'm often not sure if something is really violating the rules or represents a problem. I could see an argument for being willing to report anything that seems potentially problematical and letting the moderators sort out whether it or or not...


I submit reports for a lot of things. Some of them are acted upon, many aren't. Still, as an admin myself, I would rather those reports be made, to point me to the problematic posts, than people not report because they don't know if it's "justified" or not.

Plus, as was mentioned elsewhere, sometimes you don't know where to report, 'because there's a ton of problematic posts. Even if only one post is reported, it still brings the mod's attention to the entire thread, so even if the post you reported was fine, there may be posts around it that they needed to see.

TL;DR, I feel it's always better to over-report than under-report, and, honestly, if you are getting too annoying with reporting, the mods can always PM you and ask you to stop.
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bllanosr



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 212
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:01 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Just popping in for a second here for some ANN mod/admin appreciation. I've said this before and I'll say it again: I've been a member of several different discussion forums over the years (none of which were anime-related) and I have to say that ANN is hands down the best run discussion board I've ever come across. One of the things that stands out for me is that I never get the sense - as I have at other boards - that the mod/admins here are power-tripping. At other boards, you could sense the palpable glee when some of the mods/admins went about their business. I don't get that feeling here and it's much appreciated.


I concur! The reptile forums that I frequent are highly moderated. Anyone who goes against the moderators or popular forum members' opinions are either banned or outright ostracized to the point they don't feel comfortable posting anymore. I like the the way things are run here and I think the mods are doing a great job. Yes, they are a little more tolerant of some of the posts, but I personally like to read those mindless arguements - they're kind of entertaining and you learn something about those posters. Laughing
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Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18101
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:02 pm Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
TL;DR, I feel it's always better to over-report than under-report, and, honestly, if you are getting too annoying with reporting, the mods can always PM you and ask you to stop.

This, exactly. I probably don't pay attention to the Reports as much a Keonyn does (or as much as I should, honestly), but when I do I'd much rather close out 3-4 posts about something that actually isn't a problem than miss one that is causing a major problem.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:38 pm Reply with quote
I really do applaud the mods here, I find them all pretty sensible, and I've seen how bad some people can be around here, and to put up with it doesn't really look like an easy task.

But still, I definatley wouldn't mind if things got a little stricter here, because honestly...I'm gradually losing the urge to post here. There are just few too many knuckleheads running around free, and it's getting to the point where I actually feel a little bit nervous about saying anything because I actually worry about being engaged by them and possibly indavertantly add fuel to some big ugly argument.

I really don't think I'm here to argue, discuss civilly is more like it. Have fun, talk to people, nice people who I definatley know there are plenty of here. I don't think their voices should be lost in the BS that's been swirling around.
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Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:32 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Zac wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Zac wrote:
Going to start handing out bans pretty liberally if you people can't keep it civil.


You going to start with the slut-shaming rape apologist?


Yep. In fact he's already gone.


Thank you. And that should end that line of discussion.


I don't know if the user referenced above made a statement that was removed in addition to their ban, but I'm going to let the quote above stand on its own to revisit this discussion.

To me, "slut-shaming rape apologist" is no different than someone calling the girls of AKB48 "twats" or calling users "sex fearing prudes", yet one is banned, one is warned, and one is given a pass.

Moderators are consistently doing their best to tell people it's okay to disagree, just keep it civil.

You'll forgive me I disagree a few users around here making pointed attacks at users while posting stupid pictures is a definition of civil while purposely instigating the bashing to the point someone does cross the line. It's too familiar around here and it's not a coincidence the same users are in the middle of it all, pushing people to say things which get a moderator's attention while they skip away without a warning.

I'm bring this up because it's really disappointing to read other users state they reason they don't reply is because these same users consistently do this.

I get the feeling any casual observer to the current Answerman thread will walk away with the impression one user was banned for their opinion, all the while the poster-specific attacks remain.

Here's the start of the train wreck. Note the immediate replies which do nothing to the discussion but clearly designed to instigate.

Consider now, the time it took for the corrective action to be administered: 3 hours and it's taken to another page, which means the likelihood of seeing the start drops off significantly (not to imply it doesn't happen at all).

I know moderators don't have the time to read back posts to figure out who did what, but therein lies part of the problem. We're asked to be civil around people who actively post stupid crap to the point users lose it and get punished for it.

While I'm here:
Zac, I would appreciate it if you tell me why I'm a pretentious prick rather than get rude about it. I can't be responsible how you'll read my posts, especially when you harbor a disliking of me to begin with.

I think I've done rather well with my posts, but then, I'm not the one reading them.

Thanks (sincere tone).

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:46 pm Reply with quote
Because the person in question was being a slut-shaming rape apologist. There's absolutely no question about that. I don't tolerate that crap here - he can go back to Reddit with it.

You may not be familiar with the term 'slut-shaming' but it is in fact used by people who advocate sex-positive social change. It is not a slur or an insult.

As for the rest of it, you were really rude to the guy about old video games. Your tone was bizarrely nasty and condescending. If you didn't mean it that way, OK, but it came across that way.

I'm going to take a nap now.
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Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:51 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
You may not be familiar with the term 'slut-shaming' but it is in fact used by people who advocate sex-positive social change. It is not a slur or an insult.

I was not aware of that, as I come from an era where "slut" isn't used in a positive manner. I've updated my outdated lexicon.

Quote:
If you didn't mean it that way, OK, but it came across that way.

Waste no time pointing it out to me, because I'll be the first to admit what I think may not be read in the same manner.

Thanks again.
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Dessa



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4438
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:42 pm Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
Zac wrote:
You may not be familiar with the term 'slut-shaming' but it is in fact used by people who advocate sex-positive social change. It is not a slur or an insult.

I was not aware of that, as I come from an era where "slut" isn't used in a positive manner. I've updated my outdated lexicon.


"Slut-shaming", when I see it, is generally used with the implication that "all women [who dress in anything other than a muumuu] are sluts, and therefore they are 'asking for' anything that happens to them" (the part in [] may or may not be included in the definition, depends on who's putting down women).
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Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
"Slut-shaming", when I see it, is generally used with the implication that "all women [who dress in anything other than a muumuu] are sluts, and therefore they are 'asking for' anything that happens to them" (the part in [] may or may not be included in the definition, depends on who's putting down women).

Having done some reading on the term, I despise it even more. I won't make it an issue, but to me, the idiotic use of it comes off as no different than calling some black people the n word because they don't take offense to it. Rarely does minority thinking give way to majority prejudice.

Let's see someone call a girl who enjoys sex a "slut" and see how long it takes before they're eating their own teeth.

The word is a derogatory and there's much more to it than a woman who sleeps around.

I'm sure there are girls out there who take pride in the word by definition, but without realizing it, they're classifying themselves with a label.

I guess I'm just too damned old because when I was growing up, I was taught it was bad to label people.

Times do, indeed, change.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:30 pm Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
Dessa wrote:
"Slut-shaming", when I see it, is generally used with the implication that "all women [who dress in anything other than a muumuu] are sluts, and therefore they are 'asking for' anything that happens to them" (the part in [] may or may not be included in the definition, depends on who's putting down women).

Having done some reading on the term, I despise it even more. I won't make it an issue, but to me, the idiotic use of it comes off as no different than calling some black people the n word because they don't take offense to it. Rarely does minority thinking give way to majority prejudice.

Let's see someone call a girl who enjoys sex a "slut" and see how long it takes before they're eating their own teeth.

The word is a derogatory and there's much more to it than a woman who sleeps around.

I'm sure there are girls out there who take pride in the word by definition, but without realizing it, they're classifying themselves with a label.

I guess I'm just too damned old because when I was growing up, I was taught it was bad to label people.

Times do, indeed, change.


I think you need to re-read the sentence that started this, because I don't think you understand how its being used. Because its not at all the same thing as using that other word on the person its actually supposed to insult, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone refer to someone as a "slut" in a positive way. Hint: Fencedude was not calling a woman a slut.
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