Forum - View topicThe X Button - Fantasy Stars
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sainta
 Posts: 989 |
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I kind of get the problem with Toriyama. While the games he directed were enjoyable, they did not meet fans' expectations. When I heard of FFX-2 I expected a story similar to FFX, and diverse cast of characters, but I only got Yuna, Rikku and Paine in a calm story without deaths. Little did they do to explain what happened with Tidus who had like 3 lines considering he was what sets up the plot. Not that I didn't enjoy FFX-2. The combat system was fun and backstories were enjoyable.
The same goes with FFX13-2 where they also kind of ignored the former protagonist for most of the game and only gave two playable character. However, the story was dark so it's kind of improvement. |
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Reibooi
 Posts: 394 |
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I hate when people try to say Final Fantasy is broken. It's not nearly every game in the series is hated upon it's release by the internet and when the trolls quiet down the game is remembered more fondly. The reason people don't remember the same being true for the PS1 era games is because the internet haden't yet reach the level of critical mass it has today.
Take for example Final Fantasy XII which is easily in my opinion the best game in the franchise. When it came out there was massive backlash over the games battle system and gambit system with people complaining that it played to much like a MMO and that the gambit system basically made the game play itself. Now however most look back fondly at that game. I for one enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII I think it was one of the most character driven games in the series. Nearly every character in the game grows and changes in a more human way then any of the other FF games. Think back to 7 for example. Tifa starts the game as childhood friend pining over Cloud and ends the game the same way, Cloud starts the game as seemingly badass soldier and ends the game the same way. Now look at XIII. Lightning starts the game very closed off with her emotions and doesn't let anyone in but by the end she has grown and seems alot more open. Hope starts the game whining about his mom and ends the game alot more mature and grown up. They grew quite a bit. Was the game perfect? No but what FF ever was. SE did the same thing they have always done with FF they tried something new and some people liked it and some didn't it still sold alot so for all the people hating on it they still bought it. |
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AiddonValentine
Posts: 2204 |
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Todd, there's no point in discussing trying to "fix" FF since it's beyond fixing. It's gone from broken to irreparable. Square just doesn't have the talent it had ten or fifteen years ago due to all their truly good designers having jumped ship to other endeavors. Square is done making quality games so expect FFXIII-level dreck to be the norm for awhile as the only people left are talentless hacks like Toriyama who can't direct or write (and also have some creepy opinions about women if 3rd Birthday is any indication). Just bury the damn series and be done with it. It's not worth talking about or getting passionate about anymore.
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Aynslesa
Posts: 199 |
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I'm a Final Fantasy fanatic. There's no way I can't weigh in on some of this.
First, to reiterate an earlier post (sorry for no quote), I'd like to point out again that XIII is hardly the first Final Fantasy to sport a female heroine. Let me rewind time back to two previous games - X and XII. All right. Yes, in X you control the protagonist Tidus, and in XII you control Vaan. However, in X you also have Yuna, and in XII you have Ashe. Yuna serves as an excellent counterpoint to Tidus, and even if you don't control her in the first game (but do in the second), it can easily be argued that she's just as much a main protagonist as Tidus is, more so than previous female leads have been. Essentially Yuna *is* the story, for without her the plot of X simply wouldn't exist. As for XII...I'm sorry, but anyone who says that Vaan is the main character of Final Fantasy XII wasn't paying attention to the story. Vaan serves one purpose and one purpose only in that game - he is the catalyst that brings all of the main characters together. Without Vaan to bridge the gap, it's very likely Ashe, Basch, Balthier, Fran, and Penelo would never have joined forces. The story of XII revolves around Balthier, Basch, and Ashe (especially Ashe). Vaan is simply the catalyst. There's a Japanese term for this, I've seen it in reference to Samurai 7 (in which Katsuhiro fills the same role), but I don't remember it off the top of my head. Even the earlier games promote rather strong female protagonists, though not always in a starring role. So to say that Final Fantasy lacks a strong female presence is a little over the top. Then again, I'm aware people will likely take my comments with a grain of salt. I'm someone who ranks X as her favorite in the franchise (the story, my god, the story), and has actually made it a hobby to defend X-2 from the naysayers. That seems to automatically make me a Final Fantasy public enemy, though I haven't the faintest idea why. The whole point of Final Fantasy is that each game is *just* different enough to appeal to an array of gamers. If every game were exactly the same why would anyone want to buy it? As for the FF7 remake. Hooboy. Admittedly I salivate for this. I love the 7 franchise, have all the secondary games and movies (minus Before Crisis, damn you cell phone game...) and would love to have a copy of this. But let's face facts. Square-Enix is right. In order to make a faithful release of Final Fantasy 7, it's going to take them years. They certainly can't do it operating off of Crystal Tools - Final Fantasy XIV is proof that that engine just can't handle something as open-world as Final Fantasy 7 needs to be. We'll have a much better shot at seeing a 7 remake, I think, once SE switches over fully to the Luminous engine. The problem with FF7 is that it's so popular that SE knows that when/if it does release that remake, it had damn well better release it right. One screw up and the whole thing will get bashed harder than X-2, XIII-2 and XIV 1.0 combined. Because we all know how crazy Final Fantasy fans are. Taking into account recent events (such as the complete planned overhaul of Final Fantasy XIV planned this fall to make up for the deplorable premature release of the original version), I think it's safe to say that SE is aware they need to step up their game in a few areas. Hopefully now that they've revealed Luminous we'll be seeing more from Versus XIII down the line - but I think, personally, am going to wait until I see what Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 and the expected-though-unannounced Final Fantasy XV will eventually bring around. |
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Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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Ashe and Basch were really the focus of that game. Makes sense when you realize that Basch was intended for the main character when they started. It's actually a nice change in pace for JRPGs, a middle aged guy. I think the solution isn't making the games more western, I think it's in finding what made people like the older entries so much. They should focus first and foremost on telling a good story well, then update the gameplay to not be a menu anymore. I think a lot of people fail to see how much of an impact JRPGs have had on even western games. For instance Dragon Age copied the gambit system from Final Fantasy XII, but did it better. Mass Effect uses similar linear storytelling that Final Fantasy uses. A free to play Action RPG (ala Diablo), Path of Exile uses both the Sphere grid AND the Materia system. Even Zac mentioned how The Witcher 2 unfolds a lot like JPRGs do. What's the difference between these and Final Fantasy though? That's a question Square is gonna have to figure out by themselves. |
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PingSoni
 Subscriber Posts: 195 Location: Lansing MI |
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I'm one of those that don't feel that Final Fantasy is broken. With so many games, plus uncountable tens of spin-offs, it's inevitable that some will be liked more than others.
I don't think a remade FFVII will happen, because as others have said, it would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. What I'd love to see is a refurbished release of FFVIII, which would be a much more doable proposition if the original graphic material still exists. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I'm probably not as much of a FF fanatic these days as you, but that might be in part because of X. FF X just killed it for me. Tidus and Yuna... they made me want to pull my hair out. First of all, right off the bat, Tidus' backstory seemed kind of slapped together. One moment he's a blitzball player, then all the sudden Auran tosses him a sword and he's like an expert swordsman. It just didn't make any sense. It would have been different if he had been given a weapon that specifically used his blitzball skills in some way, but like I said it didn't seem to be carefully thought out. Then the second problem was Tidus was way too whiny of a protagonist for me. It was like Cloud's extreme opposite. Cloud from FF VII was mostly quiet, composed, and restrained. Tidus was constantly complaining and acting airheaded. I liked Yuna slightly more than Tidus, but she was also too bubbly and airheaded at times for me. Also the summoner story seemed very played out. At least in Grandia II, where they had a very similar plot, they created some uniqueness to the "summoner/priestess character" by giving her a split personality, kinda-sorta evil twin. In FF X they totally played it straight and I found it to be pretty boring. Wakka and most of the rest of the cast were VERY one dimensional. Their backstories didn't seem to be developed very much at all. They were just set pieces to help Tidus and Yuna progress forward. Also, the game's attempts at eliciting emotion from the player were so off key. The "Tidus and Yuna laugh" scene is infamous. I will say that the magic and leveling up (sphere) system was good. That was by far the best thing about the game. I don't know if I would say it was better than the materia system(s) of past, but it was definitely fun. The battle system was pretty decent, BUT the game was extremely easy. I don't recall ever dying through out my whole play through. What FF X stood for in my opinion was a departure of SE from story focus and moving more towards focus on game appearance. The visuals in FF X were of course far superior to prior FF games. The cut scenes clearly had a lot of work done on them. However, the move away from creating truly great character driven stories, in my opinion, damaged the franchise. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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Really?? I thought that six was the biggest story driven 16 bit final fantasy which is why it's held in such high regards with so many fans. I mean for game that came out in 1994 it had for it's time the most complex way of telling a story through a game but that's just me pointing out that X was not the first story driven game, agree or disagree it's just my opinion. Hmm I don't know what else to say or add however I liked the final fantasy four or two "america snes" got me into hardcore gaming. |
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sainta
Posts: 989 |
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Really? Tidus' skill with a sword is just a mimic of his sport? He even makes the same fighting pose in blitzball. And moreover, in the game's beginning they call him a rookie whose strong part is the speed. I was actually surprised Tidus' personality cos unlike Terra, Squall, and Cloud, Tidus mantained a cheerful attitude despite what he went through. He once complained to Auron why he sent him to Spira and even though he never gets the answer, he befriends him. While I admit that Yuna is too formal, she is actually kind of childish when interacting with Lulu or Tidus, the latter whom she forces make a fake laughter. |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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I personally cannot see the supposed awesomeness of FF. Give me Disgaea any day of the week if I wanted to play a JRPG, because Disgaea not only plays better (Strategy RPG >>>>> Turn-Based), it isn't mired down in aggravating emo-protagonists and pretentious and not very well-written plots. Plus Disgaea's character design is way better.
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thenix
 Posts: 265 |
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Kinda funny, although I still enjoy the JRPGs and don't think the stories are the same, I love Xenoblade and FF12. (Nier I haven't played) |
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thenix
Posts: 265 |
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srpg and turn based rpgs are completely different and I dont' think they should be compared. As for how "well written" it is, Disgaea and their games are really really simplistic and shallow anime turned into video game. Just throwing out a general plot with alot of goofyness and no depth in the story. (Not I'm putting it down for that, I enjoyed it for what it was) And final fantasy is a deep world to enjoy with a main story, back story and much left to ponder for the future. Again not easy to compare as they have different enjoyments. If you dont' like a deep story or turn based RPGs then it's not the game for you but I don't know how you are saying it's better. |
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UltimaShadowfax
 Posts: 288 |
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Wonderful editorial on Final Fantasy. I couldn't agree more. In fact, it sounds like something I would have written myself. I would add two things though: one, to the list of talent that left, how could anyone forget Nobuo Uematsu?! Final Fantasy has not been the same since he stopped doing the music. Even FFXI felt like a Final Fantasy title when it first came out, and that was an MMO! Uematsu's music was always brilliant and memorable.
Second, regarding an FFVII remake: yes, everyone and their grandma wants it. There's certainly more of a demand for it than constantly rereleasing FFI-IV. I think the real reason Nomura doesn't want to do it, even if they'd make loads of money off of it, is because he doesn't want to put it in the hands of a different team, a team that has produced crap like FFXIII or FFXIV, and ruin it. I can kind of understand that, but if that's really the case, just have Mistwalker handle development! |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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Play the 2-d ones then if you want to play fun game. I love nisa games myself and the loli's from disgaea but final fantasy IV is what got into rpgs in general, I am serious when I say play that game "psp version or gba version if you are able". The story is simple, yet engaging with memorable characters, decent pacing and plot twist that still fun. |
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Aynslesa
Posts: 199 |
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Really? That's a rather interesting statement, because in my opinion Final Fantasy X has one of the deepest stories in the franchise. It's incredibly multi-layered. It begins as a standard hero-in-another-world story, evolves into a damsel-in-distress tale, then (when it becomes quite clear said damsel can handle herself pretty well), evolves into a romance tale, and eventually culminates in a rather deep story concerning the cycle of life, death, and fate. The ending of the game, when all the chips fall into place, is incredibly poignant. I'm used to people marking down X for the voice acting and/or certain characters, but I've never heard anyone fault the story. At least, not anyone who's actually finished the game. Color me startled. |
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