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Chicks On Anime - Fansubs (Pt 1)


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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8193
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:44 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Holy sweet Mother of Moses.

I know that this is going to be really off-topic, but I cannot help myself. I started to read this thread, to see what all the fuss is about, and I noticed that Unit 03.5-ish had posted a lot. And I mean a lot. Curious, I went to his profile and started counting. And counting. And counting. Page after freaking page. The final tally thus far?
Mate, you need to get out more. Laughing
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Tofusensei



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:54 am Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
The people who lived by that code, who sort of created it, did not change their views. Those people are now retired from fansubbing, or people like getfresh who subtitle mostly shows that really never will be licensed, or are even now working in the industry.

The problem wasn't that the fansubbers broke their code, it's that new blood came in, new fansubbers were born that didn't remember the "good ole days" of VHS subbing, that didn't give a rats ass about licenses.
Many of these people were from countries where almost no anime is licensed. Others were just in it for the internet fame, or the competitive aspect. Tofu is keen on calling fansubbing the first internet MMORPG.

So it wasn't like we all didn't stick by our word. It's just that ones person's values don't necessarily translate to the next generation.
If the original fansubbers failed, it was in that they did nothing to impart their own values on the people who were watching their subtitles.


Couldn't have said it better myself ^^

And yes, Unit 03.5-ish is posting too much lol

-Tofu
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8193
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:29 pm Reply with quote
Tofusensei wrote:
samuelp wrote:
The people who lived by that code, who sort of created it, did not change their views. Those people are now retired from fansubbing, or people like getfresh who subtitle mostly shows that really never will be licensed, or are even now working in the industry.

The problem wasn't that the fansubbers broke their code, it's that new blood came in, new fansubbers were born that didn't remember the "good ole days" of VHS subbing, that didn't give a rats ass about licenses.
Many of these people were from countries where almost no anime is licensed. Others were just in it for the internet fame, or the competitive aspect. Tofu is keen on calling fansubbing the first internet MMORPG.

So it wasn't like we all didn't stick by our word. It's just that ones person's values don't necessarily translate to the next generation.
If the original fansubbers failed, it was in that they did nothing to impart their own values on the people who were watching their subtitles.


Couldn't have said it better myself ^^

And yes, Unit 03.5-ish is posting too much lol

-Tofu
I think they imparted them only too well. Wink
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Tofusensei



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:46 pm Reply with quote
Assuming that comment is directed towards me.

Having fansubbed only in groups that subtitle unlicensed anime, always dropping them upon license, for going on a decade now... Actually importing R2 DVDs and OSTs to use for our fansubs... Subbing shows that, for the most part, are completely overlooked by the R1 world...

This new breed of fansubber who subs shows after license (even after the official version is out and released, in some cases) is a different animal.

I know you like to paint us all with the same thick brush stroke, Mohawk, but it's getting old. I kindly ask you to stop attacking me every time I post in a thread.

-Tofu
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1540
Location: This space for rent
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:02 pm Reply with quote
And on that very same notion, Tofu, I'd ask you to refrain from telling me I post too much. I'm sorry if you feel I don't have the right to post here because I am against what you do, but as long as I'm civil, I have every right to post here the same as anyone else.


I think what Mohawk was getting at was that the old guard of fansubbers have imparted their lack of respect for international copyright laws to the newer generation.
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Tofusensei



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:04 pm Reply with quote
OK. I think it's time this thread can be closed Smile

-Tofu
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
People in foreign countries -- and I mean no disrespect to them -- keep throwing up the excuses of region coding, TV formats, import restrictions, etc. There are ways around these things, you know.

Import costs give some weight to the argument of why fansubs still serve a purpose to folk like us (that is if one ignores legal issues, which I don't believe are the subject of debate here).
Since such costs turn even "cheap" anime into expensive purchases, knowing that your money is going to something you'll enjoy becomes more important. For if you do not enjoy it, you end up with an expensive product which is hard to resell due to the size of our market and certain legal restrictions. If I had no way of knowing whether I myself would enjoy a given series, a lack of fansubs would, with exception, prevent me from making any pricey foreign purchases.

Region coding can, as you say, easily be defeated though.

Quote:
I'm getting a little sick of the "they don't release enough DVDs in MY country" complaint.

You are living in one of the best countries in the world in which to be an anime fan. You're entitled to your opinion, and I mean no disrespect to you, but please try to tolerate us.
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1540
Location: This space for rent
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:35 pm Reply with quote
I was merely echoing Bamboo's sentiments when she said:

SakechanBD wrote:
DmonHiro wrote:
"Even we here at Anime News Network have a selection of free titles. So what's the point anymore?"

Here's a point: I DON"T LIVE IN THE USA!!!!!

Good enough point for you?


Everybody else wrote:
I don't live in the US!


Not to be a dick (warning: I'm about to be a dick), but... that's kind of your problem, dawg. Just because you don't get something in your country doesn't mean you can steal it from somewhere else.


Are you going to tell the managing editor she's a jerk for expressing that sentiment?
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8193
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:01 pm Reply with quote
Tofusensei wrote:
Assuming that comment is directed towards me.
Not at you directly, but if the shoe fits. Wink

Quote:
Having fansubbed only in groups that subtitle unlicensed anime, always dropping them upon license, for going on a decade now... Actually importing R2 DVDs and OSTs to use for our fansubs... Subbing shows that, for the most part, are completely overlooked by the R1 world...
How noble of you to at least import one copy of a title before turning it round and giving it to all and sundrey for nought. The creators, and distributors were most grateful I'm sure. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
This new breed of fansubber who subs shows after license (even after the official version is out and released, in some cases) is a different animal.
"Once you lose integrity, the rest is a piece of cake." : J.R. Ewing. I blame the parents really.

Quote:
I know you like to paint us all with the same thick brush stroke, Mohawk, but it's getting old. I kindly ask you to stop attacking me every time I post in a thread.
-Tofu
You and I are getting old, but fansubbing goes on, and on, and as long as it does, so shall I, until it stops, or I die. Which ever comes first. Nothing personal.
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Tofusensei



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 365
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:04 pm Reply with quote
*sigh* so much for intelligent discussion.

And just for the record, I could care less what your viewpoints are, Unit 03.5-ish... No one in their right mind should post 90 times in a single thread. That's all.

-Tofu
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Zac
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ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:13 pm Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
And on that very same notion, Tofu, I'd ask you to refrain from telling me I post too much. I'm sorry if you feel I don't have the right to post here because I am against what you do, but as long as I'm civil, I have every right to post here the same as anyone else.


They're right, you post too much. In any given page you're at least a third of the responses, which is ridiculous and makes you look like you're lurched over your keyboard hyperventilating.

Anyway taking Tofu's suggestion and lockin' this up. But don't worry, there'll be plenty of time to repeat the same arguments and run around eachother in circles for 30 pages next week when Part II comes out!
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
Are you going to tell the managing editor she's a jerk for expressing that sentiment?

I did not launch a personal attack in my previous post.
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