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NEWS: Sentai Filmworks Licenses Qwaser of Stigmata Anime


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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:45 am Reply with quote
Banden, why do you keep assuming that everyone who doesn't like Qwaser is a "sex-fearing Puritan"?

I mean, seriously? That's an insanely large stretch and amounts to nothing more than poisoning the well in order to shut down the argument ("Everyone who doesn't agree with me is a sex-fearing puritan! That means I'm Right[TM] and they're Wrong[TM]!).

Nevermind that it's an immense ad hominem. Maybe you should attack the argument, not the person; which is all you've been doing--violently pigeonholing people who don't share the same opinion as you as Bad People Who Are Wrong(TM) with the pejorative of "Sex-fearing Puritan" (can I say how utterly preposterous and condescending that sounds? Because it is).

Of course, you're going to ignore this anyway, and bring up my sexual preferences as a way to completely sidestep the argument AND use a trite and cliched ad hominem against me, so I'm not sure why I'm trying to engage you in debate at 12:44 in the morning, but eh, I'm bored.
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Banden



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:53 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Banden, why do you keep assuming that everyone who doesn't like Qwaser is a "sex-fearing Puritan"?


Speaking of Ad Hominem, here's thing thing Chagen: If you actually read any of the words I've posted, you would find that

Banden wrote:
I don't have any problems with people who don't like fanservice. Plenty of people in this thread have expressed that point of view without being preachy snobs about it. willag, for instance. But for others in this thread, fanservice has become a soapbox issue, and I get tired of hearing them tell me how anime should be. ikillchicken isn't necessarily one of those individuals, but some of his comments go down that path just enough to invite a reaction from me.


You, on the other hand, are one of the leading fanservice Puritans, so as long as you keep soapboxing about what a wicked sin fanservice is, you should expect to keep getting called out on it.

But you're bored, and have Ad Hominem on the brain, so I won't bother you with reading comprehension. By all means, Lord of the Hominem, show us more creative and interesting ways to attack people you disagree with without actually reading anything they say. It really is very entertaining. Smile
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:58 am Reply with quote
Wow, you acted EXACTLY as I predicted. Intellectual debate with you really is absurdly difficult. You can't just backpedal.

Quote:
Don't like Brokeback Mountain because you're a homophobe? Fine, whatever, feel free to stew about it in private while everyone else watches the movie. Don't like Qwaser of Stigmata because you're a sex-fearing Puritan? Fine, whatever, feel free to stew about it in private while everyone else watches the show. It's as simple as that. Reign over your own living room with an iron fist, stay out of everyone else's.


Quote:
..... who would love to be society's morality police and hold all of us to their irrational small-minded worldview. People who make grand claims about fanservice in anime being a problem aren't that much different. One is a homophobic uber-douche, the other is a Puritan uber-douche. Both types should sit down and shut up and let people without irrational hangups move forward with their lives



I dunno, man, this is pretty damning evidence. It's nothing more than "People who don't like the same thing I like are WROOOOOOOOOOONG!"

Hey man, at least I never called anyone a "creep" or anything similar if they liked Ecchi. The same cannot be said for you.

Indeed, nearly all of my statements in this thread (besides the "you're only watching it for the tits" one) have been my own subjective opinion that people decided to interpret as objective (still have no idea how that happened) and then go psycho on me for.
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Key
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:01 am Reply with quote
We stop the discussion line about homosexuality now, people. It's strayed quite a bit off-topic and is starting to degenerate into morality discussions and casting aspersions. Neither is appropriate here. Any further posts along this line risk being removed.

Oh, and Banden?

Banden wrote:
Don't like Qwaser of Stigmata because you're a sex-fearing Puritan?

I dearly hope this was intended as hyperbole. If it wasn't then you're not only off-base but also insulting. QoS is one of the most - if not the most - extreme non-hentai fan service-focused anime I've ever seen. As a connoisseur of fan service series, I can attest that even some people who normally like fan service might find this one to go too far. So let's stop going into hysterics over this.
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Banden



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 140
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:29 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Wow, you acted EXACTLY as I predicted. Intellectual debate with you really is absurdly difficult. You can't just backpedal.


Your writing comprehension is even worse than your reading comprehension. Now you've accused me of calling everyone a sex-fearing Puritan, and of backpedalling. So which one is it? You don't seem sure yourself.

Anyway, we've already established that you aren't even reading a good portion of what I've posted, so it's a moot point.

Chagen46 wrote:
I dunno, man, this is pretty damning evidence. It's nothing more than "People who don't like the same thing I like are WROOOOOOOOOOONG!"


If you say so your Lordship. Thing is, I've never even seen Qwaser of Stigmata. But I am a sex-positive American, and I value anime for its potential to explore areas of violence, and sex, and subject matter of every other kind, that American film and television fear to tread because of people like you exercising their entitled sense or morality through regulators like the FCC. I get tired of a vocal minority telling me what is sexually appropriate to watch.

Chagen46 wrote:
Hey man, at least I never called anyone a "creep" or anything similar if they liked Ecchi. The same cannot be said for you.

Indeed, nearly all of my statements in this thread (besides the "you're only watching it for the tits" one) have been my own subjective opinion that people decided to interpret as objective (still have no idea how that happened) and then go psycho on me for.


And what is this? The third thread where you've complained about a fanservice show getting licensed where you and I have had this conversation. This is not about profanity, it's about not respecting other people's right to choose, and exercising your Ad Hominem muscles when you get called out on it.

And if being called a Puritan is your idea of someone going psycho on you, you must live one seriously sheltered life.

Key wrote:
Banden wrote:
Don't like Qwaser of Stigmata because you're a sex-fearing Puritan?

I dearly hope this was intended as hyperbole. If it wasn't then you're not only off-base but also insulting. QoS is one of the most - if not the most - extreme non-hentai fan service-focused anime I've ever seen. As a connoisseur of fan service series, I can attest that even some people who normally like fan service might find this one to go too far. So let's stop going into hysterics over this.


And that's bad, I guess? Well thanks for letting me know, since I'm apparently not able to make that judgement call for myself!

I'm not the slightest bit hysteric. I just get tired of people's insistence of pushing their moral judgements about sex on other people, particularly in anime fandom where I'm engaging new varieties of media specifically to get outside my own culture's expectations. In that context, I think there's a real parallel here with homophobia. Anyway, enursol brought it up in the first place, I only agreed with him.

I'm just looking for a little parity. For the most part our society has come to terms with the fact that there is room in the creative spectrum for extreme violent fictional works like Saw, Hostle, and the Human Centipede. But when it comes to sexual content, some of the most high-minded among us still harbor lingering visceral doubts about what is acceptable and what is too "extreme", and seem intent on imposing their worldview on the rest of us.

I don't see a problem. I can handle both. I suspect most people probably can. And in any case, I'd like to be the one who decides, just like I can decide whether the Human Centipede is too extreme for me. I don't need someone else's moral compass to help me make that decision.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:49 am Reply with quote
Banden wrote:
I don't see a problem. I can handle both. I suspect most people probably can. And in any case, I'd like to be the one who decides, just like I can decide whether the Human Centipede is too extreme for me. I don't need someone else's moral compass to help me make that decision.


Here's the thing man.

You say you don't want someone else's moral compass forced on you. Fine. I totally respect that. I'm not trying to do that. I'm not sure that anyone is. (Well, maybe Chagen. I don't know. But fine. I'm in full agreement that Chagen is...well...Chagen). You're free to watch whatever you want to watch based on your own personal comfort level as you put it.

Trouble is, you then turn around and declare that those who aren't okay with watching a show like this are irrational, small minded, puritan douchebags. Now I realize that you're not trying to literally force people to do anything but you're the still one here declaring that anyone who doesn't share your standard of what is appropriate is a douchebag. Hence, if anyone is forcing their morals on others at all it would be you.

No, sorry, but I find the prospect of a show about breast milk drinking to be pretty gross. I hardly think that makes me closed minded or hung up or puritanical. If you don't feel the same way...fine. You can go ahead and watch this show and I won't. Don't try to claim that I'm wrong for not sharing your standard though.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:52 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:

Trouble is, you then turn around and declare that those who aren't okay with watching a show like this are irrational, small minded, puritan douchebags. Now I realize that you're not trying to literally force people to do anything but you're the still one here declaring that anyone who doesn't share your standard of what is appropriate is a douchebag. Hence, if anyone is forcing their morals on others at all it would be you.


No, he's saying that people who aren't ok with watching shows like this, AND will not [expletive] shut up about that fact, and insist on insulting anyone who does like them, is a small minded puritan douchebag.

Don't like Qwaser? Great! Drop a post in the thread saying as such, if you must, but then just go away and ignore the thread. If you don't even like the content, why should you give a damn if its licensed and if others like it, other than to just generally make an ass of yourself?
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Banden



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 140
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:13 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Trouble is, you then turn around and declare that those who aren't okay with watching a show like this are irrational, small minded, puritan douchebags. Now I realize that you're not trying to literally force people to do anything but you're the still one here declaring that anyone who doesn't share your standard of what is appropriate is a douchebag. Hence, if anyone is forcing their morals on others at all it would be you.


I'm not telling anyone to watch anything. I've even re-quoted at least once the paragraph above where I specifically get into this. If I have a "moral" prerogative that I'm trying to push, it's that creative people in the anime industry should have creative freedom, and viewers should have freedom of choice to watch what they choose without a vocal minority trying to exercise their influence to keep things from getting released in this market for instance.

You may see that as moralizing, but I don't. I see that as freedom to choose. The alternative would be to allow the majority to impose their moral code on the rest of us, which is my definition of moralizing. When it comes to entertainment, the individual really should be able to choose for themselves.

I have zero problem with anything you just said in your post. It's okay that you think breast milk is gross. It's okay to choose not to watch Qwaser. It's okay for you to not like what I like. What I have a problem with is people who take it beyond that and hamfistedly proclaim that fanservice sucks, that fanservice is the cancer that's killing anime, that fanservice in anime is a problem, that shows like Qwaser shouldn't get licensed in the US. It maybe "just an opinion" but it's a really selfish one that shows no respect at all for anyone else's opinion. The person you just named is definitely one of the ones I'm talking about. How you feel about it is not as clear, and if I overreacted in my reply a couple of pages back I can own up to that. But I replied to the comment you made at the time because it's part of a silly argument other people make all the time that makes me bang my head against a wall.

I may think that dismissing fanservice out of hand makes a person kinda small-minded, but that's my own prerogative on the subject. Personally I am open to all subject matter if the execution of it is interesting and entertaining.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:22 pm Reply with quote
I can tell you all right now that this thread is on the verge of being locked. People are not cooling off but are rather escalating it seems not to mention Key's warning is being ignored outright. From accusations and generalizations of people as perverts to those of people being closed-minded sex-fearing puritans to the multitude of other disrespectful insults that are being blindly tossed around, I can tell you that it stops now.

You want to debate or discuss the content then you do so, but all these accusations and insults towards others of differing opinions is done. Especially when much of it is contradictory since outright labeling someone as small-minded because they dismiss something is small-minded itself. So cut the pointless back and forth and discuss the content, not how another persons opinions make you judge or think less of them. Also people need to keep in mind that if you choose to discuss something in a forum then you're going to encounter opinions of all types, both agreeing and disagreeing with you. This is a thread to discuss the series and its being licensed, and whether you like it or not people are free to weigh in on that news bit with their own thoughts, this isn't a fanboy only thread. If you don't like peoples opinions, don't go to a place intended to discuss them.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Its pretty obvious where this thread would go from the moment it was made, though. This is like the most extreme fanservice show of the last few years, and being licensed would have everyone on both sides making their opinion quite clear. Its probably best just to lock it now since theres only two ways the thread will go from now: People still bickering and arguing, or people all shutting up and not talking about it anymore, which is essentially the same as locking it. I'm betting on the former.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:54 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:

No, he's saying that people who aren't ok with watching shows like this, AND will not [expletive] shut up about that fact, and insist on insulting anyone who does like them, is a small minded puritan douchebag.

Don't like Qwaser? Great! Drop a post in the thread saying as such, if you must, but then just go away and ignore the thread. If you don't even like the content, why should you give a damn if its licensed and if others like it, other than to just generally make an ass of yourself?


There's like one dude arguing against this show and y'all are doing what you do every single time lately which is completely dogpile on anyone who dares say they don't love your crappy fanservice anime.

You like beating off to fanservice shows, great. Doesn't make you an oppressed minority, there is absolutely no relevant equivalence to anyone with actual real-world problems or anyone in the real world who is actually being denied rights or oppressed in any way whatsoever.

I'm really, really sick of the soapboxing and victim complexes you guys keep vomiting all over the forums. If I banned you, Banden, RyanSaotome and a handful of others, then it seems to me that I wouldn't run in to the "VIVA MOE MY FANSERVICE YOU'RE ALL PURITANS!!!!" crap in every single goddamn thread. But I'm not going to do that.

Instead I'm going to give you a chance to moderate yourselves. Back off of this ridiculous victimhood thing you have going on, stop projecting it all over everyone who has a remotely different opinion than you do, and quit ruining every discussion thread you enter, and we'll all have a little peace and harmony.

Or you can keep flailing wildly out of control every single time someone mentions fanservice and doesn't parrot your exact opinion on it back at you using the exact words you would and I'll be happy to boot you all out for the good of the community.

This is your last warning. I'm sick of this.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:58 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
I'm really, really sick of the soapboxing and victim complexes you guys keep vomiting all over the forums. If I banned you, Banden, RyanSaotome and a handful of others, then it seems to me that I wouldn't run in to the "VIVA MOE MY FANSERVICE YOU'RE ALL PURITANS!!!!" crap in every single goddamn thread. But I'm not going to do that..


Excuse me, but why are you calling me out here for this topic? I've had only a couple posts that weren't even argumentative. Warning and threatening me for this topic seems quite unfair.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:02 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
Zac wrote:
I'm really, really sick of the soapboxing and victim complexes you guys keep vomiting all over the forums. If I banned you, Banden, RyanSaotome and a handful of others, then it seems to me that I wouldn't run in to the "VIVA MOE MY FANSERVICE YOU'RE ALL PURITANS!!!!" crap in every single goddamn thread. But I'm not going to do that..


Excuse me, but why are you calling me out here for this topic? I've had only a couple posts that weren't even argumentative. Warning and threatening me for this topic seems quite unfair.


You derailed the Summer Preview thread doing the exact same thing. I lump you in with the others because your behavior is very similar and it's suffocating relevant discussion. I'm sick of seeing it, and it's my job to police this community, so you're in there with the rest of them.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:08 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
Zac wrote:
I'm really, really sick of the soapboxing and victim complexes you guys keep vomiting all over the forums. If I banned you, Banden, RyanSaotome and a handful of others, then it seems to me that I wouldn't run in to the "VIVA MOE MY FANSERVICE YOU'RE ALL PURITANS!!!!" crap in every single goddamn thread. But I'm not going to do that..


Excuse me, but why are you calling me out here for this topic? I've had only a couple posts that weren't even argumentative. Warning and threatening me for this topic seems quite unfair.


You derailed the Summer Preview thread doing the exact same thing. I lump you in with the others because your behavior is very similar and it's suffocating relevant discussion. I'm sick of seeing it, and it's my job to police this community, so you're in there with the rest of them.


How exactly did I "Derail" that topic? I just skimmed some of it, and was it posting some Spring sales numbers that only a couple people responded to? Since many others were more argumentative than I was in that topic. But hey, you're the big guy here so you must be right, so I guess I just can't say my opinion on things that the majority here don't agree with.
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Zac
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:12 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:


How exactly did I "Derail" that topic? I just skimmed some of it, and was it posting some Spring sales numbers that only a couple people responded to? Since many others were more argumentative than I was in that topic. But hey, you're the big guy here so you must be right, so I guess I just can't say my opinion on things that the majority here don't agree with.


Oh, sorry, should I just go ahead and ban you for the "if you don't love moe and fanservice you're not a real fan and shouldn't even be in to anime anymore because only people like me and who like what I like deserve to enjoy this material" remarks?

You're more than welcome to express your opinion. But you come across as a political partisan who has taken up the "VIVA FANSERVICE" thing as some kind of cause and you aggressively argue your case even when no case is being made against it. We call that 'soapboxing' or 'single-issue poster', neither of which are tolerated here. Feel free to discuss the shows you enjoy or don't enjoy, but turning it in to this obnoxious political crusade every single time is not OK and I'm going to put a stop to it.

And if you can't see how your own behavior comes across, that isn't my fault.

EDIT: Chagen this goes for you too. Sick of seeing your name in every single one of these stupid circular arguments. I'll boot you out with the rest of these guys if I see you continue to pointlessly antagonize them.


Last edited by Zac on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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