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NEWS: Sentai Filmworks Licenses Qwaser of Stigmata Anime


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Banden



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 140
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:15 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
And people who disliike the shows are all sex-fearing closed-minded puritans right? They couldn't possibly have other valid reasons behind their dislike. Nope, it's got to be that. Sure is a lot of people in glass houses throwing stones in here.

But you see, that is really part of the problem. Not so much that people are disagreeing, but that some people immediately respond to those that disagree with accusations about their personal viewpoints on the matter and threads responding to said fabricated accusations as if they were true. People weren't okay with just countering the points of others, but chose to turn the discussion in to "you evil puritans disliking my show is oppressing me". Ultimately that is where things got out of hand and where the problems occurred. Had you just countered the freaking points instead of adapting a persecution-complex there never would have been a need to interject. People are coming to us saying they're outright scared off from these threads because people attack them outright for simply having a different opinion and it's going to stop. Discuss the content, but cut the witch hunt crap whenever someone says something about the shows/genre you don't like (and that goes for people on both sides, you know who you are).


The logic here seems convoluted to say the least.

On one hand you're telling "us" (the pro-fanservice side) that "we" all have "persecution complexes" and are "fabricating accusations" against hecklers like Chagen who have been talking trash pretty much since page 1, telling "us" that those people have "valid opinions" and us "attacking them" for "having a different opinion" forces you to "interject".

On the other hand you're also saying that you have complex-free people coming to you with justified accusations about "us" and our invalid opinions of the hecklers, and that threatening the lot of "us" with moderation and bans unless we compromise on our opinions is an idea you can stand behind.

You'll have to forgive me if in context the reasoning doesn't come across as impartial as the token "that goes for both sides" statement asks us to believe.

You tell us that there are people who are "scared" to post here, but I'm incredibly skeptical about that. Scared of what exactly? Being called a Puritan? Or the fact that there might actually be a sliver of truth in confronting the idea? Nobody's being threatened in this conversation. When someone says something homophobic on these forums, we can generally count on them being called out as a homophobe and conversation collectively moves on. I'm doing the exact same thing when I call Chagen out for being a soapboxing fanservice-hating Puritan.

I'd like to point out that this is the first thread where I've actually done that; call out a specific person for being Puritan. You and Zac and Chagen promote this misinformed idea that I scream that at anybody I have a conversation about fanservice with, but I've already established that isn't true at all. I've only gotten into my views on this subject in three whole discussion threads so far, and two of the three times it was Chagen on the opposing side.

I'm not a psychic, I can't see inside people's heads from the beginning whether they're open-minded and just have really high standards, or really just an ideologically sex-hating tool. I try to be cautious about the scope I use when I use the word, but I think it needs to be said, because at a societal level, it's so very uncomfortably true. Americans are incredibly uncomfortable about sex an sexuality. We think nothing of giving our kids toy guns to chase eachother around and shoot eachother with, but if you gave a child a nudie mag and anyone found out about it, you'd be stigmatized for life and possibly have to register as a sex offender. Anyone who understands the film and television rating systems know that they don't even come close in their permissiveness of criminal and violent acts in films open to minors versus depictions of sexual behavior or images. The Supreme Court told us as much three weeks ago when they refused the FCC's last ditch attempt to stick CBS with that half million dollar fine for Janet Jackson's one second of Super Bowl bare breastyness. Most people see what I'm talking about if you put it to them in the right context, they just don't generalize it to their experience, or consider what degree that disparity is present in themselves and people they know. Maybe they don't get the opportunity.

As anime fans, it seems to me that we all have that opportunity. Anime has fanservice and has some freedom to experiment with sex. American animation doesn't and can't. Anti-fanservice people can oversell short lived and obscure attempts like Duckman and Tripping the Rift as much as they want, we all know we have nothing on Japan in terms of pure quantity. Likewise, film and television and advertising in France, Germany, Italy, the Scandanavian countries, and pretty much every developed nation whose media I know anything about, reveals America's uneasiness with sex for what it is by comparison. It's a standard I'm not proud of, one I'd like to change, and one I'm certainly not enthusiastic about spreading to other cultures that at the highest level at least, demonstrate themselves to be more open-minded about sex in the media than our society is. So I feel compelled to say something about it when someone like Chagen46 pushes the status quo and acts like anything else is crazy talk. Because even if he's not listening, it's a safe bet at least one other person more self-reflective is who will walk away from the conversation enriched and conscious of the fact that we don't have to live in a world where brief nudity is a million dollar crime.

That's my actual, genine opinion on fanservice. But it seems my actual, genuine opinion rocks the boat too much and makes the conversation too uncomfortable for the moderation team. You're the boss, and with the threat of a ban hanging over my head, I obviously have no choice but to keep my actual, genuine opinion to myself from now on.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 15784
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:37 pm Reply with quote
And that, Banden, is what we call soapboxing. Rather pretentious soapboxing, too, that isn't telling Americans anything that they don't (or at least shouldn't) already know. And I rate the probability that you're reshaping anyone's thinking with these comments at less than 1%.

I'm going to let the post stand, rather than editing it out, but this is the last discussion point that will be allowed on either side. Any further attempts to continue this discussion - even a response to what I'm saying in this post, Banden! - will be edited or removed by me, Keonyn, or someone else.

And Banden: I don't care what your motives are, refer to anyone else in forums - in this or any other thread - who doesn't like fan service as a "sex-fearing Puritan" again and I will personally put the Moderated tag on you. People can have other legitimate reasons than that for not liking fan service (some of it's definitely demeaning to women, for instance) so continuing to cast such broad aspersions - whether you think they're warranted or not - will not be tolerated.
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Deadwing



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 168
Location: North Augusta, SC
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:27 pm Reply with quote
They should totally use this show for a new "Got Milk?" ad campaign. "Soma! It does a body good!" Also...

... wait a second. *looks up and sees the thread is 19 pages long* Hooboy! I probably already know what this is going to be about, but I think I need to go investigate. This looks like it might be scary. Everyone pray for my safe return.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:00 pm Reply with quote
...And no trace was ever found of him.


More seriously, I'm kind of tempted to just buy the show for the level of gall it takes to release it here. I wonder if that kind of reaction was factored into Sentai's decision to get it.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
...And no trace was ever found of him.


More seriously, I'm kind of tempted to just buy the show for the level of gall it takes to release it here. I wonder if that kind of reaction was factored into Sentai's decision to get it.


This wouldn't surprise me. Qwaser has gotten more reaction and talk than any of the other anime they licensed at the convention. Whether this translates into sales or not, I dunno, but its certainly gotten people interested and more people knowing knowing about what Qwaser is.
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Deadwing



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 168
Location: North Augusta, SC
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:35 am Reply with quote
*GASP!* *GASP!* Holy crap that was close! Uh oh, I hope this dart in my neck isn't poisonous. *yoink!* Nah. I'll be fine.

Okay. Here's what I discovered. As it turns out, deep in that jungle there were two tribes locked in conflict. One of them liked fanservice in their anime, while the other did not. But rather than violence, their exchanges were not too dissimilar from the antics of grade-school children in Western society. Just as a second-grader might call his classmate a "big stinky doody-head," the members of these two tribes largely resorted to name-calling. The tribe who disliked fanservice were the primary instigators of hostilities, as they simply could not let the other tribe be, and felt it necessary to "push their buttons," so to speak. However, the tribe who did like fanservice did not help their situation, as many of them resorted to insults as well instead of merely ignoring their rivals. Such hostilities could be avoided if members of both tribes would learn that, for the sake of civility, it is sometimes necessary to keep one's opinions to themselves, or at least convey their opinions in a manner than conforms to certain universal precepts of common courtesy, or to put it layman's terms, "Speak your mind, but don't be a douche about it."

*switching to serious mode*

In case satire is lost on some of you, let me explain. To those who dislike certain forms of content in their anime (fanservice of various kinds, in the case of this thread's topic, though in other threads it could be anything from moe to yuri to yaoi to harem), just a simple "I don't like it" will suffice. There's no need for you to insult, directly or indirectly, other people for having tastes that differ from yours. So Qwaser has some fetishistic sexual content. Big deal. Without exception, everyone with functioning reproductive organs (read: pretty much everyone who has undergone puberty, so yeah, that means you, too) has their own kinks and fetishes. Can't you let others enjoy theirs in peace, or is it necessary to start and/or exacerbate a flame war at every opportunity? Just because someone likes Seikon no Qwaser or MGX or Lotte no Omocha or Kissxsis or KnJ or Yosuga no Sora doesn't make them subhuman slime worthy of contempt. I honestly don't care if you think those titles have no redeeming values. It doesn't mean you're entitled to deliberately insult those enjoy those shows. And yes, you are trying to get under their skin, no matter how you try to deny it or disguise it (assuming you're not just airing out your contempt for all to see). Trust me. I've been on the receiving end of much name-calling and condescension, both overt and subtle, for much of my life, so I know it when I hear/read it. PROTIP: If you don't like something, just ignore it. Nobody is forcing you to watch anything. A lot of people are going to be into things that you might find downright grody to the max (as my generation used to say). Get used to it and learn to just let it go already. I mean, we're talking about cartoons for Pete's sake. It ain't hurting you or anyone else if someone likes a particular show, so why bother giving people you don't even know a hard time over it? There are many things out there far more worth getting offended over than a friggin' TV show.

Even certain higher-ups (mods and admins) here at ANN are guilty of this childish name-calling. I know some of you are no fans of fanservice-y titles, but is it really necessary to go around saying things that amount to "this stuff is creepy and perverted and therefore anyone who likes it is a creep and pervert" (to paraphrase a certain someone; they know who they are)? As people with larger clout in this community than your rank-and-file forum-goer, it's incumbent on you to set a better example. Do you want this to be a place of civil discussion, or do you want this to be a place where insulting others over petty trivialities (like tastes in anime) is normalized?

I know this is the internet and many of us, whether we realize or not, use our veils of anonymity to throw civility out the door, but we really should strive to be better than all this. There's a lot of things I don't like in entertainment, even though my standards might not be as high as those of a lot of other people. I thought Genocyber was one of the most grotesque anime I've ever seen, but I'm not going to go around calling people who like it "sick, twisted, f***ed-up gorehounds." I hate modern Top 40 music, but I'm not going to berate people simply because they like Justin Beiber or Katy Perry or Kesha. I don't really think highly of Call of Duty, but I'm not going to go on a tirade about it at every opportunity and insult its fans for liking it. Why? Because I realize my opinions are just that: opinions. One's man trash is another man's treasure, and it is not my place to give another person a hard time for enjoying things I don't, nor do I have any reason to be personally offended by his or her different tastes, because, believe it or not, that doesn't make them a bad person. If there's something out there I don't like, I don't friggin' watch/read/play/listen to it, and that's the end of it.

And for those of you who enjoy your fanservice-y anime, some of you are not doing yourself any favors. Ease off on the whole "Puritan" nonsense and all the other name-calling. Just because someone isn't into lactophilia (the main fanservice of Qwaser) or what have you doesn't necessarily mean they're some far-right religious zealot or far-left feminist, even if they convey their opinions in a jerk-ish manner. I've focused more on the other side of the equation simply because I feel that so-called "haters" are responsible for 90% of all flamewars ("You ship Naruto with Hinata!? DIE HERETIC!" "You like Nintendo and don't realize the PS3 is superior to all?! Piss off, noob!"), but really, when you engage in petty insults, you're not all that different from those you're "defending" yourself from, and you're just fanning the flames further. You are just as much obliged to be civil and courteous as the next person. PROTIP: If someone is insulting you, directly or indirectly, just ignore them. They can't keep replying if you don't ever reply to them. Remember, it takes two to argue. Besides, they're just some anonymous person on the other end of an internet connection, not someone you know personally. Just say to yourself "Who cares what they think of me? Why should I get upset over their antics?"

To those of you who were able to express their opinions rationally and without having to resort to name-calling, kudos to you. To the rest of you: Get some perspective and start acting your age. All the hostility and nastiness needs to stop.
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Jedi Master



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:50 am Reply with quote
Deadwing wrote:
All the hostility and nastiness needs to stop.


But that's what makes the internet worthwhile to some people. Sports Team A vs. Sports Team B. Fizzy Sugar Drink 1 vs. Fizzy Sugar Drink 2. Religious Belief X vs. Religious Belief Y. etc. It will never stop. That said...

I haven't seen the show but enjoyed Tokyopop's manga releases. I don't buy non-dubbed anime, so will pass on the physical media release. Sentai has a lot of stuff that appeals to me but I have skipped them due to the whole sub-only issue. With this, I save more money by passing on their sub-only anime than through Funimation's value releases (which I actually spend money on).
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3278
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:00 pm Reply with quote
I don't like dubbed anime, but I would buy a dubbed version of Qwaser. Man, that would be funny. 25% of the show would sound like a porno.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:33 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
This wouldn't surprise me. Qwaser has gotten more reaction and talk than any of the other anime they licensed at the convention. Whether this translates into sales or not, I dunno, but its certainly gotten people interested and more people knowing knowing about what Qwaser is.


Pretty much. A 100+ topic in mere days? Publicity right there.
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SereneChaos



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 384
Location: Middle of Nowhere, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:13 pm Reply with quote
Deadwing wrote:
Do you want this to be a place of civil discussion, or do you want this to be a place where insulting others over petty trivialities (like tastes in anime) is normalized?


Why, the insulting of course! Watching people make a fool out of themselves is so much more entertaining than a civil discussion. Wink
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 13706
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:23 am Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
I don't like dubbed anime, but I would buy a dubbed version of Qwaser. Man, that would be funny. 25% of the show would sound like a porno.


Wait.................... It didn't sound like hentai before? Laughing
(When I closed my eyes and just listened..........)
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Jedi Master



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:27 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Pretty much. A 100+ topic in mere days? Publicity right there.


They've got the "icky" fanservice issue and the sub-only issue. If Sentai decides to go with Aniplex style artificial scarcity price gouging this could be the most controversial release of the year. Laughing
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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 1597
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:44 am Reply with quote
So the discussion died down, HM. Maybe i can revive it.

Now for my first post ever.

I hate the show and the original manga more than any other and have reviewed it accordingly here.
Also, i am a homophobe and a raging puritan, maybe ('Laughing') .

But seriously how financially sucseful was it ? Besides the internet-rage, the japanese DVD sales were just ok from what i read and the manga, who knows ?

That is all.
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eyeofthetiger



Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 49
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Deadwing wrote:
*GASP!* *GASP!* Holy crap that was close! Uh oh, I hope this dart in my neck isn't poisonous. *yoink!* Nah. I'll be fine.

Okay. Here's what I discovered. As it turns out, deep in that jungle there were two tribes locked in conflict. One of them liked fanservice in their anime, while the other did not. But rather than violence, their exchanges were not too dissimilar from the antics of grade-school children in Western society. Just as a second-grader might call his classmate a "big stinky doody-head," the members of these two tribes largely resorted to name-calling. The tribe who disliked fanservice were the primary instigators of hostilities, as they simply could not let the other tribe be, and felt it necessary to "push their buttons," so to speak. However, the tribe who did like fanservice did not help their situation, as many of them resorted to insults as well instead of merely ignoring their rivals. Such hostilities could be avoided if members of both tribes would learn that, for the sake of civility, it is sometimes necessary to keep one's opinions to themselves, or at least convey their opinions in a manner than conforms to certain universal precepts of common courtesy, or to put it layman's terms, "Speak your mind, but don't be a douche about it."

*switching to serious mode*

In case satire is lost on some of you, let me explain. To those who dislike certain forms of content in their anime (fanservice of various kinds, in the case of this thread's topic, though in other threads it could be anything from moe to yuri to yaoi to harem), just a simple "I don't like it" will suffice. There's no need for you to insult, directly or indirectly, other people for having tastes that differ from yours. So Qwaser has some fetishistic sexual content. Big deal. Without exception, everyone with functioning reproductive organs (read: pretty much everyone who has undergone puberty, so yeah, that means you, too) has their own kinks and fetishes. Can't you let others enjoy theirs in peace, or is it necessary to start and/or exacerbate a flame war at every opportunity? Just because someone likes Seikon no Qwaser or MGX or Lotte no Omocha or Kissxsis or KnJ or Yosuga no Sora doesn't make them subhuman slime worthy of contempt. I honestly don't care if you think those titles have no redeeming values. It doesn't mean you're entitled to deliberately insult those enjoy those shows. And yes, you are trying to get under their skin, no matter how you try to deny it or disguise it (assuming you're not just airing out your contempt for all to see). Trust me. I've been on the receiving end of much name-calling and condescension, both overt and subtle, for much of my life, so I know it when I hear/read it. PROTIP: If you don't like something, just ignore it. Nobody is forcing you to watch anything. A lot of people are going to be into things that you might find downright grody to the max (as my generation used to say). Get used to it and learn to just let it go already. I mean, we're talking about cartoons for Pete's sake. It ain't hurting you or anyone else if someone likes a particular show, so why bother giving people you don't even know a hard time over it? There are many things out there far more worth getting offended over than a friggin' TV show.

Even certain higher-ups (mods and admins) here at ANN are guilty of this childish name-calling. I know some of you are no fans of fanservice-y titles, but is it really necessary to go around saying things that amount to "this stuff is creepy and perverted and therefore anyone who likes it is a creep and pervert" (to paraphrase a certain someone; they know who they are)? As people with larger clout in this community than your rank-and-file forum-goer, it's incumbent on you to set a better example. Do you want this to be a place of civil discussion, or do you want this to be a place where insulting others over petty trivialities (like tastes in anime) is normalized?

I know this is the internet and many of us, whether we realize or not, use our veils of anonymity to throw civility out the door, but we really should strive to be better than all this. There's a lot of things I don't like in entertainment, even though my standards might not be as high as those of a lot of other people. I thought Genocyber was one of the most grotesque anime I've ever seen, but I'm not going to go around calling people who like it "sick, twisted, f***ed-up gorehounds." I hate modern Top 40 music, but I'm not going to berate people simply because they like Justin Beiber or Katy Perry or Kesha. I don't really think highly of Call of Duty, but I'm not going to go on a tirade about it at every opportunity and insult its fans for liking it. Why? Because I realize my opinions are just that: opinions. One's man trash is another man's treasure, and it is not my place to give another person a hard time for enjoying things I don't, nor do I have any reason to be personally offended by his or her different tastes, because, believe it or not, that doesn't make them a bad person. If there's something out there I don't like, I don't friggin' watch/read/play/listen to it, and that's the end of it.

And for those of you who enjoy your fanservice-y anime, some of you are not doing yourself any favors. Ease off on the whole "Puritan" nonsense and all the other name-calling. Just because someone isn't into lactophilia (the main fanservice of Qwaser) or what have you doesn't necessarily mean they're some far-right religious zealot or far-left feminist, even if they convey their opinions in a jerk-ish manner. I've focused more on the other side of the equation simply because I feel that so-called "haters" are responsible for 90% of all flamewars ("You ship Naruto with Hinata!? DIE HERETIC!" "You like Nintendo and don't realize the PS3 is superior to all?! Piss off, noob!"), but really, when you engage in petty insults, you're not all that different from those you're "defending" yourself from, and you're just fanning the flames further. You are just as much obliged to be civil and courteous as the next person. PROTIP: If someone is insulting you, directly or indirectly, just ignore them. They can't keep replying if you don't ever reply to them. Remember, it takes two to argue. Besides, they're just some anonymous person on the other end of an internet connection, not someone you know personally. Just say to yourself "Who cares what they think of me? Why should I get upset over their antics?"

To those of you who were able to express their opinions rationally and without having to resort to name-calling, kudos to you. To the rest of you: Get some perspective and start acting your age. All the hostility and nastiness needs to stop.


This will ALWAYS be a problem as long as moderators pile on along side the prudish segment of the fanbase. The other side of the fanbase just defending themselves. For years(at least a decade), I've watched mods back the fem/cons segment(which is analogous to american/israeli relationship). And anyone who stands up to them gets sanctioned or moderated.
So whats' the other side to do? Take the abuse lying down? Clearly that's what the moderators are expecting even if they don't clearly state it.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5566
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, we're not starting this again. If you have something relevant to the article to add then do so, but otherwise leave the thread to die. If you really feel there's some moderator conspiracy or issues then take it to the ANN Feedback forum where it belongs.
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