Forum - View topicNEWS: Akira Toriyama Comments on Live-Action Dragonball Film
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GATSU
Posts: 15299 |
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testor:
But his mannerisms and mindset would also be Asian. Plus, if you're gonna argue he's an alien, then where the f**k is his tail? And why does he need to learn martial arts, when he already has superhuman strength? But hey, if you're going to argue that race and nationality doesn't matter, then how exactly do you expect a white kid to go to a white high school with the name of Goku? And, hypothetically, if the sequels were to happen, his kids can't just be white, either, since their mother is Asian. I knew a guy who was half-Japanese who looked white most of the time, but that was due to his generic punk attire. So I'm not entirely sure if I could tell he was white if he didn't dye his hair. Hell, even Kreuk occasionally looks Asian in certain photos, too. So, if those alleged sequels they plan on making were to actually happen, how would they get out of that mess? Anyway, does anyone know what it says in front of the trailer? Last edited by GATSU on Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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enurtsol
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Would this be kinda like David Carradine again with a white man playing a Shaolin kung-fu master? 
(And maybe Goku is just hiding his tail or already lost it? And names won't matter much so long as everyone on that planet also have weird names, including other high school students.) Last edited by enurtsol on Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:15 am; edited 3 times in total |
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GATSU
Posts: 15299 |
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enurtsol: No, he's just playing a yellow-face version of Bruce Lee.
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testorschoice
Posts: 468 |
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So after all this complaining about the actor being white, you're now saying that you're not really complaining that he's played by a white actor--but complaining that, in your opinion, he isn't acting "Asian" enough, exhibiting the Asian "mindset," or have the tail?
Uh, because Akira Toriyama had him learning martial arts when he was young, too? 
Uh, Goku is a funny kid's name in Japanese or Chinese too. (Edited because Gatsu once again changed his reply.) |
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GATSU
Posts: 15299 |
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testor: Um, his MA "training" consists of him whacking stuff with his bo and shooting a kamehameha wave. He doesn't learn specific offensive and defensive techniques based on any actual schools of fighting. And Goku may not be a common name, but it's still used as a dangling participle in the Japanese language. OTOH, no white guy with self-esteem would name himself after an Asian character.
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Don't know about you, but I never saw Bulma or her parents as Asian & she's one of the original protagonists in the story. When I look at the faces in the crowds of DB, I don't see Asian all that much. Same goes for his Dr Slump. The 2 stories crossed, so it can be imagined they might be the same universe, but that Penguin Village is very remote. It is a rather advanced world-hell, they elect animal people as president or maybe he was a king, I forget. We saw people who seemed to be Chinese, yes. We saw people who looked to be from India. I see nothing in the neighborhood the Sons are living in to suggest the people are Japanese. Sharpner doesn't look Japanese to me. I really don't see Mr. Satan as Japanese (Italian maybe? Mexican for the wrestling/fighting connotation? American for being loud & annoying?) So why do you all assume Goku's Asian? If anything, Toriyama going with English for Vegeta's attacks suggests Saiyans spoke English, doesn't it? So that would suggest more of a look suggesting the English-speaking world. In fact, there are a lot of similarities to the Superman legend & Goku. Not to mention Toriyama played with Superman's image in Dr. Slump. If one takes the time to read Toriyama's comments about making DB, one realizes he was flying by the seat of his pants as many manga-ka do. It's not like he had this huge vision of the DB world. He admits he forgot about Lunch until someone asked about her amongst other mistakes. He mentioned he often lunched with 2 other manga-kas & they bounced ideas off one another (he joked they stole ideas from each other if all else failed). Yet everyone's having a cow over this movie's take on a story the author didn't bother to keep all that close an eye on. |
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testorschoice
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Goku is not a real Japanese name, common or uncommon. There is no "dangling participle" in the Japanese language. Please stop making up statements about a language you are unfamiliar with. |
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fighterholic
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Son Goku would be Chinese in origin, which makes sense when you look at the fact that the original Journey to the West Story is of Chinese folklore. Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to do some research on that next time? The way you can tell is just by looking at the kanji and seeing how their readings are indeed of the onyomi factor, which makes the reading of it Chinese in origin. |
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Ladara7
Posts: 9 Location: Canada |
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We all have such low expectations about this movie that there is a good chance we'll be pleasantly surprised. Many great works of literature have been retelling (DB itself was a retelling of journey to the west) and ended up better known than the original, so who knows?
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Cliffjxn
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[quote="CCSYueh"]
That's because Bulma was white. She had blue eyes for goodness sake. She was from the West nearly everyone else is from the East. She was the "token". Goku should be played by someone with an East Asian heritage. One has to wonder if that's part of the reason why Toriyama said what he did. In reference to what's been said about Goku being an alien here's my take from an earlier post: People say: "Aliens aren't Asian", "Aliens aren't any Earth race", "Goku shouldn't be played by an Asian because he's an alien". True enough being an alien means that Goku isn't "Asian", but, you could say something close about Superman: "Superman is not white, he's an alien!" By that logic, any tall, fit, good looking actor of any race could be Supes. (I wonder how people feel or react if they cast a tall Asian guy as Superman in the next movie? Or if they cast a Hispanic, an East Indian, or (gasp) Will Smith as Spike in Cowboy Bebop?) However, given that Superman was created by white dudes and drawn as a white dude, I think we can assume that he was meant to be seen as white. Likewise, I think we can assume that Goku having been created by a Japanese artist, who based him on one of the most famous Asian mythical characters of all time, is supposed to appear to be "Asian". Look at it this way, if you were going to a modern retelling of the John Henry myth who would you cast as J.H.? Denzel Washington or Hugh Jackman? The fact is, the Dragon Ball saga is set on an alternate Earth with land masses that looks a lot like our earth before the continents broke apart (makes the dinosaurs look more logical, eh?). Most of the story takes place in what would be Southwest and/or in East Asia on our Earth. If you don't believe me look up "Dragon Ball map" on Google. Roshi's island is part of what would be Japan here. Goku is from what we would think of as China. Muscle Tower and Penguin village are in "Siberia" Bulma, being the "token" white, is from Europe/the US. ETC, etc. When it gets right down to it there's absolutely nothing to argue for Goku being anything other than an alien who happens to look like a human from China. Oh, and to those people who say that there aren't any races in Dragon Ball: How do you explain Namu, General Black, Yajirobi, and Upa and his dad? Gatsu may not always choose his words wisely, but, he is right essentially about the Asian stuff. I've got friends who are actors and they all say the same thing: It's hard to get a big studio movie made if the main characters are aren't white. Oh, you can have a "minority" lead, but, he or she had better be surrounded by white supporting characters. It's pretty rare when you have a movie that goes against that. If you ask me it's creatively stifling.
It is however a Japanese word, to wit: "The name Goku is a baby boy name. The baby name Goku orginated as an Japanese name. In Japanese, the name Goku means- sky. " So, it's not like Toriyama made the name up. BTW, Songoku is the Japanese name of the Monkey King. And Goku as a character name has been used in many Japanese books, movies, and TV shows. I don't know of any real people with that name, but, I bet there are at least a few. Next time check your facts before you mouth off. |
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testorschoice
Posts: 468 |
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Now this is really getting off topic, but Dean Cain, the tall, fit, good looking actor they casted as Superman in Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, was born Dean George Tanaka. His father was Roger Tanaka, half-Japanese. "Cain" comes from his adoptive father. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001002/bio
You know, they casted an Asian man to play Spike Spiegel in the anime. person#1009
No one is arguing that Asian-Americans don't have barriers in American filmmaking. But it was silly for Gatsu to claim "Hollywood can't allow Asians to direct or even star in Asian roles" in a thread about a Hollywood film directed by an Asian American with Asian and Asian-American actors. (Edited because CCSYueh pointed out that, although I was replying to Cliffjxn, I accidentally left CCSYueh's name on the quote.) Last edited by testorschoice on Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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testorschoice
Posts: 468 |
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Please do not consider an English baby-name website as an expert source on Japanese names. http://www.baby-names-and-stuff.com/japanese-baby-names/goku.asp Goku is not a real baby boy name in Japan. Goku does not mean sky. Only the "-ku" part means sky.
No one said that Songoku isn't the Japanese transliteration of the legendary Chinese Sūn Wùkōng character. We were pointing out Gatsu's implication that "Goku" is not a funny name in real-life Japan is incorrect, and that "Goku" is not a "dangling participle" in Japanese as he claimed. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15299 |
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CCS:
Bulma's named after friggin' Japanese gym shorts, for eff's sake! And her father runs a business which makes portable electronic equipment, something that was exclusively Japan's domain back when that sucker was written. As for the rest of the cast, what part of Roshi, Krillin, and Yamcha ain't Asian? Hell, Oolong wears one of those stereotypical People's Republic of China outfits, while Piccolo looks like he's done some clothes-shopping on the Silk Road! Hell, the only one who's not likely Asian is Popo; and he could still be at least part Persian, based on how he dresses.
Yes, because Arale-chan would be a common Anglo name.
How about when Goku stuffs himself with rice bowls?
Japanese guys do occasionally have 'fros, so that does not preclude Mr. Satan. Dunno who the hell Sharpner is, though-probably a supporting character.
But Vegeta's named after a Japanese garnish, and the names of his attacks can likely be attributed to the fact that he was not raised in an Asian culture.
But she barely does anything, anyway, so she's not important to the story. fighter: The origin of the character is Chinese, but the pronunciation of the name is Japanese. testor: testor:
Sentaku...
But he actually looks and talks like Superman. That white boy does not look like or sound like Goku. But hey, SNL tried to use the same argument for why they couldn't get a black actor to play Obama. They said he was Japanese, so they weren't technically racist.
Nevertheless, I'll give you a freebie. Lana Lang is a Midwestern red-head; so why is she played by an Inuit-Chinese girl in Smallville? I'm guessing in that case, they wanted someone who actually looked like she had a small-town background, since there are so few of them nowadays in the States.
And American cartoons sometimes have white people voicing black people. What's your point? The difference is they're playing a voice, not the actual person. Plus, how many white people who are fluent in Japanese can also voice-act in it? That's a whole different skill in itself.
It was silly, even though Cliff validated my argument. And you still haven't tried to counter my Avatar counter-argument, either. Anyway, the guy's not directing; he's subbing. A real director would take control of the project his way, not the studio's way. And the "actors"[I use the term loosely for most of them.] are being cast to read lines and fill parts, not to actually emulate their characters. If they couldn't find anyone who didn't work on an American production, they'd cast white people in their place in a second, which is what happened in the case of Avatar.
It's not a real baby boy name in America, either, but emo-boy has it anyway. Last edited by GATSU on Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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enurtsol
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So that just makes it even.
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fighterholic
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What about it? How about either elaborating on or explaining the point that you have been trying to make, which really hasn't been a credible point at all? |
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