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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 1185
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:32 pm Reply with quote
braves wrote:
pparker wrote:
I do have to say I've never been able to stomach the dub, never listened to it more than the first few minutes, one time. Are we in Brooklyn, or Tokyo? Smile


Wait? Are you talking about the new dub? I thought the newer dub (with JYB as the lead) was pretty good, though the script didn't flow too well in some parts. The old dub was pretty bad from what I remember. Trying to add a cheesy line whenever possible is not a good idea.

You know, I don't know what version I first saw. I bought the new LE 2-Disc edition not long ago and watched it again, but didn't even bother to listen to the dub. I'll check it out next time. So my comments may not be current. As always anyway, YMMV Smile
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SongstressCela



Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 615
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:15 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
animehermit wrote:
I never really cared for Claymore, I thought it was very similar to Berserk, but just not as violent.


Claymore gets compared to Berserk a lot, but I've never fully understood the comparision. Ok, they are both set in medieval looking worlds, so at first glance they have that thing in common, and there aren't too many anime/manga series set in worlds like that so Claymore/Berserk tend to stand out a bit.

But their stories are really quite different. Their characters as well. It's a superficial similarity, in my view.


Seconded. Perhaps because there aren't many medieval series that are as bloody as the both of them? Completely superficial though, as you said. Other than the style I can't see any similarities at all.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:21 pm Reply with quote
SongstressCela wrote:
I must admit, I wasn't even allowed to watch Nick when I was younger. Even the slightest offensive programming was monitored by hardcore Christian parentage. I had to be limited to what my uncle who often visited snuck in over VHS. xD


Ooooohhhh, now you're rebelling with anime! Laughing


jgreen wrote:

Did you get to watch Superbook, at least?


There's also Flying House which I thought was better. Both were commissioned by the Christian Broadcast Network to Tatsunoko Studio (of Macross fame).


pparker wrote:
braves wrote:
pparker wrote:
I do have to say I've never been able to stomach the dub, never listened to it more than the first few minutes, one time. Are we in Brooklyn, or Tokyo? Smile


Wait? Are you talking about the new dub? I thought the newer dub (with JYB as the lead) was pretty good, though the script didn't flow too well in some parts. The old dub was pretty bad from what I remember. Trying to add a cheesy line whenever possible is not a good idea.

You know, I don't know what version I first saw. I bought the new LE 2-Disc edition not long ago and watched it again, but didn't even bother to listen to the dub. I'll check it out next time. So my comments may not be current. As always anyway, YMMV Smile


But the old Akira dub has Bob Bergen and the Ninja Turtle! Laughing
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SongstressCela



Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 615
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
There's also Flying House which I thought was better. Both were commissioned by the Christian Broadcast Network to Tatsunoko Studio (of Macross fame).


Yep, I remember that one too. I still never watched them, though. xD
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nobinobita



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 75
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:56 pm Reply with quote
pparker wrote:
Akira can't fairly be compared to today's productions in terms of polish, but the level of expertise demonstrated on the screen cannot be objectively denied.


Thanks for the very thoughtful comparison of Akira to 2001. You read my mind. Most people will find 2001 boring, some will even think its dated, but it's unquestionably a historically important film, and there will always be a niche audience that really identifies with it. The same goes for Akira.

From my experience I've noticed that the greatest fans of Akira tend to be artists and draftsmen themselves. I work in animation, and I also have a good friend/mentor who used to design space suits and vehicles for NASA. He's the greatest artist and scientist I've ever met. He considers Akira to be the greatest achievement in animation.

I think the reason that Akira (and most Otomo productions) don't resonate with a wider audience is because they are very visual films, they're not very dependent on dialog and traditional plot structures. The depth of the films is in the look, execution and mood, the visual storytelling. Akira is less about making a political statement or playing with your feelings, and more about making you experience the events as they are unfolding and letting you draw your own conclusion.

If you love visual art, if you feel an emotional reaction to the way a line is drawn, the way a flat contour can represent a dimensional form, the way an artists will is expressed through the choices they make in an illustration, then Akira is a deeply deeply engrossing film.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18138
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:25 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Claymore gets compared to Berserk a lot, but I've never fully understood the comparision. Ok, they are both set in medieval looking worlds, so at first glance they have that thing in common, and there aren't too many anime/manga series set in worlds like that so Claymore/Berserk tend to stand out a bit.

But their stories are really quite different. Their characters as well. It's a superficial similarity, in my view.


It's not the story elements that invite comparisons; it's the tone. Dark, heavily graphic swords-and-sorcery fantasy filled with gritty settings and exclusively heavy, serious moods are quite rare in anime, and both series feature central characters swinging around large swords as they cut a swath through their respective worlds, so the comparisons are only natural. The first time I saw an episode of Claymore, Berserk was the very first title of any type that popped into my head as being close kin.
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Shepperoni



Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Posts: 110
Location: Topeka, KS
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:47 pm Reply with quote
Akira on Blu-ray is a must buy, even though I own the standard edition. Cool

I really enjoyed the first "season" of Afro Samurai. Sure the idea wasn't very original, but the characters were badass and the fights were well choreographed. However that sequel was just awful! The villians were weak, Ninja Ninja had overstayed his welcome from the first series, and the whole thing just felt unoriginal. It was like they were just trying to make a quick buck.
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:04 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Claymore gets compared to Berserk a lot, but I've never fully understood the comparision. Ok, they are both set in medieval looking worlds, so at first glance they have that thing in common, and there aren't too many anime/manga series set in worlds like that so Claymore/Berserk tend to stand out a bit.

But their stories are really quite different. Their characters as well. It's a superficial similarity, in my view.


It's not the story elements that invite comparisons; it's the tone. Dark, heavily graphic swords-and-sorcery fantasy filled with gritty settings and exclusively heavy, serious moods are quite rare in anime, and both series feature central characters swinging around large swords as they cut a swath through their respective worlds, so the comparisons are only natural. The first time I saw an episode of Claymore, Berserk was the very first title of any type that popped into my head as being close kin.


I suppose the tones are a bit similar. Very Happy Though to nitpick on something you said, there is spoiler[no sorcery, magic, or obvious/clear involvement of the supernatural in Claymore, at least yet. ]

So yah, they are definitely similar, but even so, I think the similarities between the two series are often overstated. Especially since they are often brought up to criticize Claymore. I cant count how many times I've seen Claymore called "Berserk-lite," or seen someone type something like "Claymore is Berserk for those who can't handle the more extreme content of Berserk," when in fact, Claymore is a series that stands on it's own, apart from Berserk, not a cheap copy.

Anyways, moving on slightly, the comparision between Claymore and Beserk has just brought something a bit ironic to my mind. The anime adaptions of each series choose a rather different way to handle their endings... yet both are often bashed for it. What the Berserk anime did is exactly what a lot of people wanted the Claymore anime to do, yet Berserk is almost always is mentioned a ton when people are discussing "worst anime endings of all time."

Perfect example of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 964
Location: The Argama
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Key wrote:
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Claymore gets compared to Berserk a lot, but I've never fully understood the comparision. Ok, they are both set in medieval looking worlds, so at first glance they have that thing in common, and there aren't too many anime/manga series set in worlds like that so Claymore/Berserk tend to stand out a bit.

But their stories are really quite different. Their characters as well. It's a superficial similarity, in my view.


It's not the story elements that invite comparisons; it's the tone. Dark, heavily graphic swords-and-sorcery fantasy filled with gritty settings and exclusively heavy, serious moods are quite rare in anime, and both series feature central characters swinging around large swords as they cut a swath through their respective worlds, so the comparisons are only natural. The first time I saw an episode of Claymore, Berserk was the very first title of any type that popped into my head as being close kin.


I suppose the tones are a bit similar. Very Happy Though to nitpick on something you said, there is spoiler[no sorcery, magic, or obvious/clear involvement of the supernatural in Claymore, at least yet. ]

So yah, they are definitely similar, but even so, I think the similarities between the two series are often overstated. Especially since they are often brought up to criticize Claymore. I can't count how many times I've seen Claymore called "Berserk-lite," or seen someone type something like "Claymore is Berserk for those who can't handle the more extreme content of Berserk," when in fact, Claymore is a series that stands on it's own, apart from Berserk, not a cheap copy.

Anyways, moving on slightly, the comparision between Claymore and Beserk has just brought something a bit ironic to my mind. The anime adaptions of each series choose a rather different way to handle their endings... yet both are often bashed for it. What the Berserk anime did is exactly what a lot of people wanted the Claymore anime to do, yet Berserk is almost always is mentioned a ton when people are discussing "worst anime endings of all time."

Perfect example of damned if you do, damned if you don't.


last time i checked, Demons are pretty supernatural.

Claymore is Berserk-lite, or mabey it inspires comparisons for simply how good Berserk really is. and as far as iam concerned Berserk is the greatest manga ever, and Claymore just ultimately comes off as pretentious.
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SongstressCela



Joined: 26 Sep 2008
Posts: 615
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Claymore is Berserk-lite


It really, really isn't. Not even going to get into your calling it pretentious. Rolling eyes
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maaya



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 976
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:00 am Reply with quote
I completely agree that Claymore is "lighter" than Berserk. But imho that is not very difficult, since Berserk is pretty disgusting ... to me =) So, Claymore being lighter doesn't make it bad, just different.

You shouldn't forget that Claymore is still a Shonen-series, while Berserk is pure Seinen. Usually Shonen series don't compare to the really dark, complex and "deep" Seinen ones, which is normal, because they are aimed at different audiences/ages. Claymore, eventhough part of the mature shonen series, is still aimed at younger readers.

I just like Claymore for what it is, it's not all that deep, but still pretty complex and really well elaborated for a Shonen. Apart from the setting I also do feel that the stories itself are pretty different, with the focus put on different things in each series.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:02 am Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
last time i checked, Demons are pretty supernatural.

spoiler[Only if they're not genetically engineered humans.]

Quote:
Claymore is Berserk-lite, or mabey it inspires comparisons for simply how good Berserk really is. and as far as iam concerned Berserk is the greatest manga ever, and Claymore just ultimately comes off as pretentious.

Are you sure that's the right word? I don't care which one you think is better (I can't make the comparison myself since I haven't seen Berserk), but dismissing a show because it's similar to, but not as good as your favorite is, well, mostly just irritating to everyone who has to listen to you.
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Mad_Scientist
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:21 am Reply with quote
Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
animehermit wrote:
last time i checked, Demons are pretty supernatural.

spoiler[Only if they're not genetically engineered humans.]

To be fair, the anime never went into detail about spoiler[about what exactly the Yoma are. Actually, even the manga hasn't made that precisely clear yet.]

However, even in the anime and early parts of the manga, I never got the impression that the spoiler[Yoma were magic or supernatual. They always seemed more physical in their nature to me.] But anyways, this whole point was just me being an anal *** and nitpicking a tiny part of Key's comment, so it can probably be dropped now. Razz

Quote:

Quote:
Claymore is Berserk-lite, or mabey it inspires comparisons for simply how good Berserk really is. and as far as iam concerned Berserk is the greatest manga ever, and Claymore just ultimately comes off as pretentious.

Are you sure that's the right word? I don't care which one you think is better (I can't make the comparison myself since I haven't seen Berserk), but dismissing a show because it's similar to, but not as good as your favorite is, well, mostly just irritating to everyone who has to listen to you.


I don't want to completely derail this into a Berserk vs Claymore thread, which I'm afraid I may have already done, but I too am curious as to what animehermit meant about Claymore being pretentious.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:12 am Reply with quote
Key: Personally, I think Claymore owes more to Fist of the North Star than Berserk.
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Beruda



Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 114
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:08 pm Reply with quote
nobinobita wrote:
pparker wrote:
Akira can't fairly be compared to today's productions in terms of polish, but the level of expertise demonstrated on the screen cannot be objectively denied.


Thanks for the very thoughtful comparison of Akira to 2001. You read my mind. Most people will find 2001 boring, some will even think its dated, but it's unquestionably a historically important film, and there will always be a niche audience that really identifies with it. The same goes for Akira.

From my experience I've noticed that the greatest fans of Akira tend to be artists and draftsmen themselves. I work in animation, and I also have a good friend/mentor who used to design space suits and vehicles for NASA. He's the greatest artist and scientist I've ever met. He considers Akira to be the greatest achievement in animation.

I think the reason that Akira (and most Otomo productions) don't resonate with a wider audience is because they are very visual films, they're not very dependent on dialog and traditional plot structures. The depth of the films is in the look, execution and mood, the visual storytelling. Akira is less about making a political statement or playing with your feelings, and more about making you experience the events as they are unfolding and letting you draw your own conclusion.

If you love visual art, if you feel an emotional reaction to the way a line is drawn, the way a flat contour can represent a dimensional form, the way an artists will is expressed through the choices they make in an illustration, then Akira is a deeply deeply engrossing film.


Very well said. Akira is still my favorite animated film (with Sleeping Beauty a close second) and every time I see it I'm amazed by how engrossing it still is.

B.
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