Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Fansubs (Pt 2)
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kefkaownsall
 Posts: 189 |
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I have a slight confession (one that I watch Bleach streamed)
The other one was that my sister and I watched .Hack//Sign subbed when I think the license didn't come through. I [expletive] loved the series and eventually I bought tons of .Hack shit. So fansubs helped out there. |
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Tofusensei
Posts: 365 |
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lol 
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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There is also Kurokami which just started airing in January.
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Isn't that nice, though dot Hack was destined to come here -- it had an anime, a video game tie-in, and a concept that would appeal to people over here because the MMORPG was just then a burgeoning concept and industry. Bandai struck while the idea was hot and knew the series would catch on over here. You could have easily seen dot Hack on Toonami, as well. But let me bring up another point related to that sentiment. Some shows are bound for the US regardless of their popularity in the fansub community. Robot shows will likely ALWAYS have an audience here, because there is an appeal about giant robots that stems all the way back to the '80s -- you can thank Robotech, Voltron, Transformers, Mazinger-Z (then known here as Tranzor-Z) for jumpstarting the ingrained acceptance of the robot genre here. In fact, there was a certain movie about alien robots that proved that the audience for giant mechanical beings beating the snot out of one another is definitely there. Or look at Gonzo shows -- because of their Western sensibilities, most of these series will make it here. The R1 companies primarily observe market trends (both in the US and Japan) and their own sales data when deciding what to import. |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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I know a great deal has been made about the negative impact fansubs have had on the industry. But the one thing that is rarely mentioned is that part of the problem is marketing. Anime is a niche product and is not widely marketed outside the fandom. You practically have to already be an anime fan (or maybe know someone who is) to be aware of it's existence. Of course, I realize a lucky few of you apparently live somewhere where "everyone knows what anime is" but I'm willing to bet most of us don't.
The only way for someone in the mainstream to encounter anime is to stumble upon it on Sci-Fi or Adult Swim. You rarely see anime advertised on regular websites, tv, or magazines. What's needed it to get more anime on tv, preferably on basic cable channels that most people get, and not just the premium ones. Plus, it would be nice if some entertainment magazines would hire someone to review anime. Plus there needs to be more awareness of anime in the general public. As it stands now, the general media completely ignores anime and when does end up in the spotlight, it is usually in a negative manner and no effort is made to consult with those who really know what anime is all about. But then the other part of the problem is that many anime fans prefer to keep it to themselves. They don't want anime to be popular because then it wouldn't be "special" and it would be tainted by "westernization". However, if anime is to thrive (at least outside of Japan) that is a risk we have to take. |
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SongstressCela
 Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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First off...
Bamboo needs to get it through her head that fansubs have not served their purpose. Plenty of people made this argument in the last thread, though it got so long I wouldn't blame her if she didn't read it. Between the lack of region-free streaming making it impossible for licensors to stream outside their country and the fact that it's simply impossible for studios to license -every- series that fans enjoy, fansubs are not going to lose their purpose for a long, long time. For example, Akikan and Kemono no Souja Erin are two series that I've been enjoying immensely this season thanks to fansubbers. I would be hard pressed to see either of them licensed any time soon, if ever. The same goes for plenty of other series I've loved. Hell, I would have expected Romeo x Juliet and Sisters of Wellber to be shoe-ins for American release, but it's been years and no dice.
Yes, yes they are, because no one will license them.
...What? xD You can't say "Anime had its moment in the spotlight" like it's some kind of...I don't know, a fad. That's like saying "Music had its moment!" or "TV had its moment!" Anime isn't going anywhere any time soon, not in general. It might be on its fast track to an 80s-esque situation in the states, but as a whole? No...>_>
...And yet you just said Anime had its moment. Make up your mind! o_O
So true. Outside of already niche magazines aimed at fans, you're not going to find ads, well...anywhere. Companies really need to step up their game and advertise in appropriate places. Maybe slip an ad for something like Monster or Flag in, I dunno, Wired. Or some more typical anime in Gaming magazines. I'd say TV doesn't hurt, but that usually is avoided even by live-action series unless they're actually being aired...
Oh boo hoo. Maybe if he put out a half-decent release himself it wouldn't be an issue. 
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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There are some non-shonen series that have a ton of revenue coming in from merchandise too. Fruits Basket, Gundam, etc. Those shows that you always see goods of and everyone has. However, merchandising isn't going to be a magical bandaid either. Some problems with merchandising in the US market: Time lag actually exists in merchandising*. If you don't have the stuff ready to go at the point of hype, you are going to lose out on a good amount of revenue. It isn't like DVDs where you can generate a second hype point. If the DVDs are released simultaneously, maybe you can do something, but the merchandise itself will not generate hype. *ADV has claimed that DVD sales do not noticeably increase if the show is brought over faster. The US anime licensing industry would rather sublicense to an actual toy/clothing company than produce goods themselves for obvious reasons. The other companies have to actually take an interest in making goods and making them available. Lastly, bootlegs are already a major issue in the market for merchandise. It is easy to figure out if a DVD is legit or not. It is extremely hard to figure out if a piece of merchandise is legit. (Most people do not care to even check and those who do care do get tricked every so often.) Last edited by bayoab on Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Funny, I could have SWORN that one got picked up recently. If you consider it to be YEARS since the show was made in 2007, you must be living inside Tokyo Jupiter. |
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SongstressCela
Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Thanks for the heads up on RxJ! Anyway, it's nearly March, and Wellber, at least, aired in April. Close enough to say "years" with only slight--very slight--hyperbole. There are plenty of series out there that are older that I could have chosen, anyway.
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naruhodo569
Posts: 10 |
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The moment the industry gets an entity like the RIAA, is the moment I stop buying DVDs or paying for any kind of stream. Realistically, creating such an entity is a weak solution for a perceived problem. The RIAA has only managed to do bad things for the music industry. Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that most people who watch fansubs and don't buy the DVDs or subscribe to streams, would be any more willing to part with their money if fansubbers were somehow sued into oblivion. A lost sale isn't a lost sale if the sale wasn't going to happen in the first place. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that a series like Haruhi would have done as well as it did outside of Japan if it had not been fansubbed. I for one would be much less willing to part with 50-80 dollars for a series without seeing it first. A 2 minute trailer can only tell you so much. Be it fansubs or legitimate download-to-own system, digital downloads are the key to driving DVD and merch sales. I'd gladly support an iTunes-esque system provided the selection was good, prices reasonable, and the files were DRM-less. Streams would also be a good option provided the quality was on par with what I could expect from a digital download. Another lesson the anime industry should learn from the music industry (and the video game industry for that matter) is that DRM just pisses people off. If I spend money on an anime series, I expect to play it in my video player of choice, without any restrictions. I'm willing to bet that most of us here got introduced to anime by fansubs. Fansubs are an integral part of the community. Truly, the fact that the anime industry in the US is active at all is a testament to the fact that they are not inhibitive of DVD or merch sales. Please, try to give people a little bit of credit. Not everyone who watches fansubs refuses to support the industry. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people who download, buy at least a few box sets each year. I feel that fansubs only encourage fandom, and fandom is what anime companies rely on to drive sales. |
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_Earthwyrm_
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I hope it's not money that you're willing to bet on either of those two things, because if it is then you may find yourself caught short on your next purchase. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Perhaps that's too strong a claim to make. If people see posters, figures and models in shop windows of a series they've never heard of, at least they become aware of the name and general visual appearance of it. Surely that works to the same end that advertising does?
You are hooked on that show I see. |
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naruhodo569
Posts: 10 |
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While you, and many others, may have been introduced to anime by a non-fansub means, I stand by my statement that fansubs have done much to not only introduce people to anime for the first time, but also fuel people's fandom. I highly doubt it, for example, that people in the early 2000's or even the late 90s would have been introduced to anime by anything but fansubs. Legal means, outside of DVDs, were rare. Sure, we had things like Toonami on cartoon network (in the States) where we could watch Gundam Wing, Dragon Ball Z, and Pokemon, but that only represented a small sample of what was actually available. With the explosion of anime's popularity abroad, came the proliferation of fansubs. I'm not saying that one caused the other (especially because there were fansubbers way before the internet became a favored distribution method), but rather that both helped to encourage the other's growth. Ultimately though, everyone has their own view on the matter. I don't mean to say what you have said is wrong. I just want to clarify my remarks. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Well let me think here..... I was exposed to anime by broadcasts of Sailor Moon , then my brother bought Record of Lodoss War, then the next anime I saw was shown on Adult Swim when I was in college in 2002. So quick review, nope no fansubs were required to get me interested in anime. |
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kefkaownsall
Posts: 189 |
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Well of course as a kid I watched Digimon Yugioh etc. I also watched Zoids but the two animes that made me an otaku were .Hack and Naruto fansubs. Oh and I'll kill Funi if they decide to prevent amvs by adding Spore type locks on their DVDS.
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