Forum - View topicNEWS: Nike Ads Spark Graffiti Complaints in Singapore
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jsyxx
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Its called the 8th Amendment. But if you want to go against the principals this country was founded on, move to some of those other countries and lets see how much fun you can have over there.
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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As a person with several friends in Singapore, I'd like to answer. "Lots," you can have lots of fun there, its a great place. About half my friends believe that their government should do away with the corporal punishment. The other half, look to North America and point out that our forms of punishment don't do much to deter vandalism of private and public property. The majority of Singaporean citizens prefer their laws as they are. As for the Teenaged American Idiot that went to a foreign country, broke their laws and got punished... what do you expect? When you break the laws in a foreign country you should be punished the same way they punish their citizens. If you don't like it, stay at home. These laws may seem inappropriate to you, but keep in mind that Singapore has a democratic government that is known to be one of the least corrupt in the world. If the people wanted change, they'd vote for it. -t |
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jsyxx
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That wasn't my argument. You shouldn't be caned for spray painting whether you're a citizen or not.
Yea, and in the south the majority also kept the Jim Crow laws in place. The government shouldn't be in place only to protect the rights of the majority. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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For clarification, it's a matter of what is cruel AND unusual, and certainly societies perceptions on what is cruel and unusual has changed over the last two centuries. Since the wording is rather vague, who determines what constitutes being cruel and unusual? Honestly, your posts make caning out to be the worst possible punishment known to man. Certainly there are ways to be far worse than that. One might even consider permanent damage to be cruel, rather than the temporary damage done by caning. Better yet, perhaps we should compare the kind of punishments we have today to the ones that existed in the US two centuries ago. After all, it's the same country with the same amendment, so why not? I'm sure those punishments were far better than caning (note, I'm sure you see my point beyond the sarcasm.) The fact is, I don't see caning to be particularily cruel and unusual because it doesn't take away life and limb, and it's far more humane than the types of punishment the US has had in it's past. Call it a matter of a different perspective and let's leave it at that. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10420 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I'd agree with that. But there are two things that I think I should point out, the first, is that the Singaporean government's majority rating is somewhat astounding. By majority, we're not talking 50.1 % like Bushe's government, we're talking 98%. The opposition in Singapore exists only to offer an opposing voice in the house
That's your opinion. It's also my opinion, but neither of us have any right to inflict our opinions on other countries. How do you feel about foreigners who disagree with US laws, laws that are wanted by the vast majority of US citizens? Comparing the Jim Crowe laws, laws that treated one group of citizens differently than another group of citizens, to laws that treat all people equally is rather inappropriate IMHO. -t |
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Necros Antiquor
 Posts: 571 Location: Funny in a car crash sort of way |
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Am I the only one who found this article to be utterly hilarious? I feel like that 2% minority in Singapore's government...
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wao
Posts: 224 |
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Oh FFS, what the hell was the POINT Of having this article on ANN in the first place? To make people think "hehe geez Singapore sucks"?
I'm not complaining, but have any of you actually seen the way those posters were put on the bus stops? You would be forgiven if you thought they WERE illegally put because they were traditional small sized posters stuck over existing large real posters at bus stops and such places. It's just a mistake, for crying out loud. Have you heard of the concept of active citizenship where you inquire and call in if you see something that doesn't belong? So what if we do have incredibly tough laws. I agree that we do have some problems going on regarding the voting and all, but as you can see we're living on perfectly fine, as long as we're not completely oppressed ala China then we're not going to complain too loudly. Too much freedom isn't always good. Honestly. I don't see what was the point of including that case of the teenager there specifically when the article already was VERY loosely related to anime. The posters aren't even in anime style, hel-lo! Some "news" that is! 
(FYI, I *do* live in Singapore.)
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s_j
Posts: 162 |
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Singapore may seem just a bit uptight by our standards, but it's a democracy ruled by its people, and they obviously value peace, order, and protection of one's property more than us. More power to them.
Think them barbarous if you will, but all Singaporeans I know are incredibly polite, highly educated, well spoken, and respectful towards others. And to be on topic...bad advertising campaigns aren't exactly rare. But one has to wonder how the ad agency Nike hired could make such an obvious miscalculation. |
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jsyxx
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How exactly am I going to inflict my views on Singapore? I'm not going to do the PC thing and shut my mouth, I'm going to say straight up that this practice is crappy and inhumane. I think using the term cultural differences is a skape goat alot of the time, human rights are universal in my opinion. And most foreigners I've come into contact only care about US foreign policy, they don't care about the laws that govern our citizens.
So is my Chinese room-mate. But I'd rather lose an arm than have to live in his country. |
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jsyxx
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Rather inapporpriate??? You know the point I was trying to make about the majority choosing the law. I wasn't comparing the specific laws themselves. You even recognized this earlier in your post. And as for that point about treating everyone the same, you can still have an unfair law treat everyone equally unfair. Also its obvious that the majority doesn't comit vandalism either. |
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s_j
Posts: 162 |
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Ergo the actions of the government doesn't always reflect its subjects, so to call them Nazis and pricks is over the line to say the least, isn't it. |
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jsyxx
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Those comments weren't directed at the subjects. That should've been pretty clear. |
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Ranmah
 Posts: 294 Location: Stomp'n on Tokyo Tower |
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about the teenager. He is from Dayton (kettering, rich area). He lived in Singapore for a while so he knew about the laws. I guess being a stupid kid he broke the law. In the local news a martial arts instructor demonstrated how they canned people with a ratan (thin staff) on a bag of rice. The rice lost.
My Mayalsan friend said that many people from Singapore would begin chewing bubblegum once they reach the Mayalsin boarder. The Commerical has been airing in bits and pieces in Taiwan. B-bal is very popular there. They especially love Slam Dunk. Maybe they'll have the ads in taipei. Ranmah |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Let's apply your way of thinking to a similar argument. "You shouldn't be executed for murder whether you're a citizen or not." Now this argument is much more debatable in almost every country in the world. Some people feel there should be more capital punishments to teach those murderers a final lesson and scare off potential ones, while others feel no one has the right to take life away from someone else even from a serial killer or something alike. Different countries have different laws regarding capital punishment, and even different states in US have different opinions. Same thing for caning. You think it's barbaric, but many others think it's appropriate. If you can't understand this anology, I'll have nothing else to say to you.
Looks like you don't know much about other countries in the world, do you?
Summoning Ken Hayashi... 
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s_j
Posts: 162 |
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Thank you for clearing that up.
But, even then, I think your comparison is past hyperbole. Singapore's laws are decided by its people, and while their punishments are severe, they strive to be just. I have no objections to the view that caning for petty crimes is harsh, but I wouldn't accuse Singapore's government of being uncivil...that would be as wrong as Europeans accusing us of the same for having capital punishment. Notions of what is lawful and fair, our tolerances for what is considered cruel, these are constantly shifting. So in any discussion about such, whether about Jim Crow or caning, one has to do so in context with the values of the times and its people. The cynic in me says there are no universal human rights...that's only for the priviledged, and that's just the way of the world. But, if we were to draft a bill of universal human rights, I'd think freedom from fear of crime would be pretty high up. Freedom to own property, and have protection for said property, would be pretty important too. Now, freedom from severe butt spanking when you break laws...well, that might be good too, but I wouldn't say it's anywhere as important as the above two rights. =) |
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