Forum - View topicREVIEW: Lupin III: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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“succeeds in bringing new life to it while still remaining faithful to Monkey Punch’s original.” - I don't see this being the case in the least, unless the writer is only referring to the fact that the violence and sex are more prevalent than they usually are in Lupin media.
Sure, those two elements are present, but they're executed in a vastly different way. The Lupin manga is full of dark stuff, but usually it is darkly humorous. The characters are shitty people that often do awful things, but this isn't meant to be serious and depressing. The art styles are also VASTLY different, coming from clearly different places. Fujiko's art style is girly, elegant and detailed; Monkey Punch's art is goofy, cartoonish and rejects the very concept of elegance. I mean, let's compare some Zenigata drawings:  
vs  
This isn't something that can be disregarded as 'oh, it's just the art, it doesn't matter that much' - the visual acting of Monkey Punch's characters and the general tone that his drawings convey is a HUGE part of what constitutes "Lupin manga-style". It takes situations that would normally be 'hard-boiled, serious crime story' material and instead makes them comedic and light-hearted. Also, some Monkey Punch quotes: “Lupin reminds us of the joys of not being too stressed. It’s okay to be a little bit mischievous and carefree.” http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110102001310.htm “You may say it is unrealistic. But, so what? I’d like you to escape from reality at least while you are watching Lupin’s actions. Even for a little while, if you can get away from such realities as exam hell, debts, traffic nightmares, taxes and other problems, it was well worth it for Lupin to be born.” http://www.mediafire.com/?ixssfs26tbn0bqj Meanwhile Fujiko is drawn and written with a different mindset. It got so intensely depressing and disturbing at times to the point where I actually felt genuinely uncomfortable watching it. The drama is more straight-faced, the objectionable material is more detailed and realistic. This is a brand new vision of Lupin and has little to do with Monkey Punch. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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On this point, since there was no rating or age-gate like Funi's stream, the Japanese broadcast was unique just for being able to broadcast it completely uncensored on a large terrestrial channel, NTV, which is a family-friendly station no less! The only time this has happened before that I'm aware of was with Sekirei 1 episode 09 on Tokyo MX I hope this marks a significant turning point, back to the old days, at least as far as lifting restrictions on late night anime. Now production committees can't hide behind the excuse of "having to censor" to entice people into buying the DVD/BDs 
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Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
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Yeah, I'd seen some people online claim that the series was going for an early Monkey Punch manga look, but I really think that's not true. Monkey Punch is spiffy and Koike is spiffy, but their characters are built soooo differently! |
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I enjoyed this series a lot. It has obviously terrific style. The artwork was wonderful to behold and I liked the soundtrack, which was often understated, but cool. I loved the weird storybook aesthetic in her flashbacks and some of the interesting imagery in the last third of the series. The animation did struggle: the character animation did creak under the weight of the designs and objects that were thrown or fell didn't move with much sense of weight or action. (Comments to this Anipages review of episode three suggest that the production was somewhat troubled).
Before this, I had seen Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro, Lupin III: The Secret of Mamo and what Adult Swim showed of the second television series, so I had some investment in the franchise, but not too much. This is very much unlike any of those, but I was entirely cool with that. Fujiko often seemed like an afterthought in what I've seen of Lupin III. She wasn't part of Lupin's regular gang and often showed up as Lupin's object of lust or to instigate the plot, so there was welcome daring in making her the crux of a series. I think that producers might have gotten a little to enthusiastic about making her less blank and made her psychosis a little overwrought, but that's excess that I can stand. Fujiko made a way better female terminator in episode nine than Kristanna Loken ever did. I found myself little troubled by the rampant nudity. I think that this was largely because it mostly lacked the *tee-hee* sneak-a-peek PEERRRRRRRVVEERRRRT *slap* puerility and humiliation of more conventional fanservice. It was still exploitative, of course, but not in a demeaning, Porky's style. I almost wonder if Sayo Yamamoto and Marik Okada were trying to bludgeon the sexualization of breasts out of us. I alternated between thinking that the ending undermined the series and thinking that it was a little remarkable; I think that I err toward the latter now. I'm not good at this literary analysis rigamarole, but having spoiler[Fujiko's thieving and casual sex be not the products of Aisha's programming so that she could live vicariously though Fujiko], besides being a fun sucker-punch to our expectations, seemed to make a statement about the validity and independence of Fujiko's choices in life by making them something that were part of her, not features imposed by a controlling authority. Or I'm just an idiot. Whatever the case, it's nice to have a series the invites some turning over in the head. If you don't buy all of that... well, it's got tits. Plenty of 'em. People like that, right? It might not have been quite the revelation that I had dreamed of, but it was still an exceptional series to me. I really want to see more of Sayo Yamamoto's work, both her past series, Michiko e Hatchin and more from her in the future. She's a relatively new, quite considerable talent and a woman, I think that she represents something that the Japanese animation industry, a sometimes sclerotic boy's club, could benefit from. Last edited by Surrender Artist on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Well, there's not just Sayo Yamamoto or Mari Okada. Like manga, there's a considerable number of women in the animation industry, although perhaps more writers than directors. I also get the impression the amount of female animators is large, maybe the majority in some studios.
I would not make such an assumption. I think Okada thinks very simply there's an erotically aesthetic appeal. In the article concerning AnoHana, it was revealed she wanted to make it more of an ero-comedy until the producer and director forced her to rewrite parts of it, which she was not entirely pleased with. IMO it probably explains the origin of the "Anaru" name for one of the AnoHana girls and the very limited joking turned serious after rewrite Last edited by configspace on Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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You may have noticed this thread just got a whole lot smaller.
Why? Because people don't freaking listen. Someone saying they don't care for someones track record is not cause to turn the thread in to a debate in to their right to that opinion. A joke is also a joke, and even if you find it in bad taste or don't find it particularly funny doesn't mean that it is, it only means that is your particular subjective viewpoint. What it certainly doesn't mean is that the thread should be all about that joke and how you judge that person as a result of it. Plus, when I tell you to "knock it off", that doesn't translate to "keep on going" as some apparently thought it did. So all that garbage is gone and done with. You know what this thread is about? It's about freaking "Lupin III: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine", so how about we talk about that from now on maybe? Good. Here's the deal though. If I have to come back in to this thread to deal with that garbage again then the thread is getting locked and those involved dealt with accordingly. [/angry mod] Back to your regularly scheduled program. |
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uguu
Posts: 220 |
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I wouldn't even call this series "Koike-style" either. You can obviously see his input in the designs, but overall it's more 'girly and elegant' than 'badass and stylish' like Koike's work tends to be. This entire series feels like a Lupin anime that's trying to appeal to women more than any past series. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Not for the first time either. Bit sad to see even more of my posts go. And yes, I'm talking specifically about the ones that had survived the first cull; I have no issue with the ones that were responding to Fencedude being initially removed since I fully expected (and was hoping for) those to go. But yeah, I thought the two that went this time should not have gone, since Mari Okada's track record is relevant to the show being reviewed. [Mod Reply: Well, while Okada's track record may be relevant, people were seeing the particular mention of your dislike of her track record as cause to discuss those series' she has done that you don't like instead of Lupin. The comments had to go since just telling people to discuss Lupin as the thread is intended wasn't getting through. - Keonyn]
Actually, I liked the Black Rock Shooter T.V. series. Regarding Fujiko and feminism, I totally disagree with you here. Those episodes were not supposed to be thought-provoking at all, let alone from a feminist point of view. And Fujiko is no Utena, not even in the same arm of the galaxy. Episode one: Fujiko spends most of the episode topless, uses sex appeal to get what she wants. That's not "bringing issues of ... sexuality ... into the series". That's just Fujiko using her body to appeal to her adversaries and especially the audience. Sex appeal is a different thing than actually attempting to make a statement about human sexuality. Episode four: This is a really badly-written episode. spoiler[The opera singer gives up singing to be with her beloved, but decides to unnecessarily scar her face and throw away a priceless mask to do so. In no way does that episode raise any of the issues you claim.] Episode six: Having a spoiler[homosexual cross-dresser in this episode does not raise issues of gender, it just means there's a trap who is good at his job. The machine-gun-toting lesbian schoolgirls had no personality and were in no way used to try and get a point across about sexuality. The episode didn't even try to explore the themes you claim, it just had homosexuals, one of which cross-dressed. You couldn't compare this episode to Hourou Musuko for example.] Oh yeah, and the episode was badly written too, including (but not limited to) having spoiler[Lupin escape from the greenhouse and untie Fujiko (all offscreen) absurdly, ridiculously fast, with Fujiko just so happening to have that recording of the detective with her.] Episode nine: I can kind of see where you are coming from here, but it was more about freedom and self-identity than sexuality or feminism per se. Unless you think that spoiler[Fujiko as a terminatrix] is empowering in a feminist sense, or something? Episodes eleven through thirteen: Um, there have been some shows that have thoughtfully looked at spoiler[manipulation and torturing of children and linked it to meaningful themes. Elfen Lied being one, some people might suggest Gunslinger Girl as another, and there are more. But this run of episodes is not on that level. It just ain't. There is the theme of the past catching up to you, and one could argue that Fujiko's sexuality is screwed up because of all the crap she went through as a child (e.g. she sees sex as just a tool). But gender or feminism issues/themes? Um, no, not really seeing it.] So basically, there isn't anything actually there, you are merely seeing what you want to see. There's no way that I will agree that these episodes can be analysed endlessly, because there's nothing really to analyse. Well, except Fujiko's knockers, and there were far too few instances of those (outside of the first episode when such was their screentime they could have been mistaken for the two lead characters). Dark and gritty reboot combined with a sexy female lead does not automatically equal intellectually interesting and/or mature show. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Fujiko being sexualized?
Welcome to the Lupin III franchise. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Oh, I heartily agree that she was sexualised. But that's not what I was talking about.
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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It's hard to know what the hell you're talking about.
"Bad writing" is pretty vague. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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It seems fairly straight forward. Contrary to what some have suggested, Dtm42 evidently doesn't see any sort of feminist subtext to the show. He feels that the nudity is just face value sex appeal. I don't think he's criticizing the show for it's sex appeal though. He just doesn't think there's any deeper meaning behind it. He also thinks that the plots are often nonsensical but that is another issue not directly relevant to the issue of feminist subtext. That's my impression anyway. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I don't know if I would characterize the show as especially feminist, either, nor do I think it was really intended to be.
It's more about Fujiko, not women in general. What triumphs isn't the spirit of a woman, but Fujiko. I don't think it quite celebrates her duplicity or promiscuity outright, but rather affirms the strength of her individual will. She is who she is based on force of character. Ultimately it's that shining through. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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And your impression is entirely correct. I don't see any feminist subtext to the show. The fanservice is mostly just that; fanservice. I don't mind the sex appeal too much (except when it was overused in episode one) and I actually would have appreciated more fanservice in this particular show. And indeed, the plots are badly written but those were just my side comments in the response post to ABCBTom. The main topic at hand was the issues of sexuality and gender and feminism, or to be more precise the lack of them. I am happy and relieved that there is someone out there who reads my posts properly. I wasn't being obtuse, all the information is there if one but reads what I write. |
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Ojamajo LimePie
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Fujiko is in full control of her sexuality. Nobody tells her what to do with her body. That's a very feminist idea. Don't be slut shaming, dtm.
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