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Chicks On Anime - The Perfect Man(?)


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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 12235

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:38 am Reply with quote
Erg, this is so girly......................................... FINALLY! Laughing
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Mysticmidnightmaiden



Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 123
Location: California (Bay Area)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:34 am Reply with quote
What great timing, I'm finishing up Fushigi Yuugi this week. (I'm glad I didn't suffer through the manga. It's hard to watch, even as fast as I'm going...)

I respect open ended harem anime for both genders. Everyone should be entitled to their own fantasies. (This, of course, doesn't mean that everyone should be subjected to them.Very Happy)

(Creepy Fangirl Admissions Ahead!)
I'm a personal fan of stoic baddasses, otomen, Nice Guys, Princes, the firecrackers with a heart of gold, GARmen (though they really don't show up in shojo very often...) and anything that breathes with glasses (Playing Persona 4. Dying from megane overdose).
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Earth_Wyrm



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:51 am Reply with quote
On the topic of '5cm Per Second', one of the major appeals to me was that neither of the two (or three...) principle characters were perfect at all. They were completely normal; they could have been someone I know. It wasn't the characters themselves that appealed to me, so much as the heart-wrenching and sweet (childish...) level of devotion between them.
In the end though, spoiler[the girl marries another guy, and the main man is living miserably. How could someone so rooted in his young love that he can't move on and create a life that he's even content with be considered in any way perfect?
He's tragically (and I mean that in the truest sense) flawed.]
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divinemango



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:01 am Reply with quote
Earth_Wyrm wrote:
In the end though, spoiler[the girl marries another guy, and the main man is living miserably. How could someone so rooted in his young love that he can't move on and create a life that he's even content with be considered in any way perfect?
He's tragically (and I mean that in the truest sense) flawed.]

For the girls, such a devoted boyfriend is idealistic.While from a man's point of view, probably not too perfect. Not too surprising there.
spoiler[At least in the end, while most viewers are probably still dumbfounded or cursing/weeping, the girl made her point clear, he could finally get rid of all his miserable feelings to move on with his life, and his freelancing job. Perhaps it's also that aspect of him that makes him all the more appealing to the women]
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Cait
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Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:34 am Reply with quote
Thank God, something innocuous this week. *wipes brow* Or... will it be...?

Anyway, it might be that "idealizing" men is part of a general societal process whereby women's expectations of men are built up, then broken down because they are still, generally, expected to ultimately be submissive in relationships. Basically, women have to concede that they live in a world where they aren't in control and will have to "take what they can get." For younger girls the "perfect man" can be a guy they want to exist in the world and would totally fall for if they ever met, and for older women the "perfect man" is someone they would still like to exist, but pretty much figure doesn't anymore. It's now feeding a desire they know will never come to fruition and setting a standard of "perfection" they know will never be met. Is it unfair? Probably. Do they do it anyway? Of course. Sorry, men of the world, it doesn't matter how perfect you are, you'll never stack up to "perfect anime guy."

Also, I think it's interesting when characters like Kakashi become so popular in fandom. It's proof that a guy doesn't have to show any skin (almost at all, literally, even) to get the girls to swoon over him (you're not alone, Casey).
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Barachem



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:35 am Reply with quote
Mysticmidnightmaiden wrote:
and anything that breathes with glasses (Playing Persona 4. Dying from megane overdose).


LOL, also in real life?
For me, i absolutely like meganekko very much both in anime/manga/games/etc. and in real life.
Meganedanshi not really.

As far as perfect men are considered, i as a man myself have some particular views.
A perfect man should be emotionally stable, but able to express himself freely.
He should behave himself, but should be able to take necessary measures when needed, even if it cost him his grace and he be ridiculed.
He should be generally kind, but hard when it comes to injustice.
A man of authentic authority, not some macho caricature.
A decent guy, not a slick bastard.
A man of integrity, not image.
Someone who will treat others with respect, but no doormat.
A good guy, not a nice guy.
Independent, not solitudal.

I've seldom seen this kind of guy in anime.
The gar types are just solitudal macho loners.
The types presented in Ouran Highschool Host Club each have flaws so large that they're in principle all clinically in(s)ane, even though all them are lovable and i loved the series, it's because of their in(s)anity flaws that the series was such a hit and success.
Still it'd be quite boring if all anime men were "perfect", but i wish a bigger percentage were, as a measure for men to reflect on and for women to like.
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Earth_Wyrm



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 505

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:38 am Reply with quote
divinemango wrote:
For the girls, such a devoted boyfriend is idealistic.While from a man's point of view, probably not too perfect. Not too surprising there.

Really?
spoiler[I just find a huge disconnect between the idea of 'perfection' and the image of a guy who can barely live without someone else. That's total imperfection, if anything - how could something perfect need something else?
It's true that his devotion is something beyond belief, but that's only one aspect of him. But if you're looking exclusively at his good side, of course he's going to seem perfect... but he's far from it.

Something's lacking for him to even have proper function as a mentally and emotionally stable adult, and that something is her. Maybe they are only 'by their powers combined' a perfect couple...
Okay, that's a more seductive notion. Two parts of a whole; cheesy, but seductive.
That could be a draw, I suppose.]
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:52 am Reply with quote
This topic kinda reminds me of the topic of those who believe thay can speak to and marry fictional characters....

Maybe that is the negaative of the "perfect" man gone to far.

Article that has what I'm talking about (although I couldn't find the one of the young woman claiming to be married to Sephiroth.)

http://news.ninemsn.com/​article.​aspx?​id=​657839&​rss=​yes
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Furudanuki



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1874

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:10 am Reply with quote
Harem anime: take two, but hold the contempt and vitriol. What a difference changing the gender makes. Laughing
Casey wrote:
Oh yeah. Sting's “Every Breath You Take”…? In the real world, that's not romantic; that's a stalker. Possibly a criminal.

Ummm... for the record, it was never intended to be romantic - more like cathartic. "Every Breath You Take" was written during the disintegration of Sting's marriage. If it gives you the impression of "stalker", "criminal", or "control freak", then you got the message. Wink
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1540
Location: This space for rent

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:17 am Reply with quote
Ah, after The Topic What Shall Not Be Named, something lighter. At last. Laughing


I'll spin a guy's perspective as a counterpoint (i.e., thoughts on female archetypes): sure, most anime girls are hot, but how viable would they be as a real girlfriend? A lot are either TOO clingy, too rabidly obsessed with the loser male to make it realistic, or too mood swingy. So the eye candy is nice, but the reality is that if they were real people, you'd probably start to get sick of them reeeeeal quick.



...though I'd still let myself get whipped by a tsundere willingly
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jsieczka



Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 150
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:36 am Reply with quote
Furudanuki wrote:
Harem anime: take two, but hold the contempt and vitriol. What a difference changing the gender makes. Laughing
Casey wrote:
Oh yeah. Sting's “Every Breath You Take”…? In the real world, that's not romantic; that's a stalker. Possibly a criminal.

Ummm... for the record, it was never intended to be romantic - more like cathartic. "Every Breath You Take" was written during the disintegration of Sting's marriage. If it gives you the impression of "stalker", "criminal", or "control freak", then you got the message. Wink

Considering how many people used it at their weddings, not that many people got the message. Or it is one creepy message to send to each other on your wedding day.

Now back on topic. I have never been able to really wrap my head around the draw of the knight in shining armor character in terms of adult females. It seems to me that the idea that "my life is so uninteresting until mister perfect shows up, then my life is great" would be hated by adult women. Yet these characters and stories seemed to be loved, now I know that there are still girls that go to college and major in finding a husband. The those stories just appealing to them, or is there a broader appeal?
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Barachem



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:37 am Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
I'll spin a guy's perspective as a counterpoint (i.e., thoughts on female archetypes): sure, most anime girls are hot, but how viable would they be as a real girlfriend? A lot are either TOO clingy, too rabidly obsessed with the loser male to make it realistic, or too mood swingy. So the eye candy is nice, but the reality is that if they were real people, you'd probably start to get sick of them reeeeeal quick.


True, many an anime girl is just eye candy and either really vapid, too bright or a Naru Narusegawa...

Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
...though I'd still let myself get whipped by a tsundere willingly


Honestly, i hate the concept of tsundere and i do NOT understand why so many animefans and otaku alike seem to love this concept as much as so many love the concept of the willing slave girls, a category of anime girl i also utterly detest.
Yes, i terms of progression and character development tsundere are much more usable to flesh out a character's development, yet almost always the producers of anime that use tsundere for character development either never change the tsundere personality or for my feeling it comes too late with too little.

One of the few realistic female characters i've ever witnessed in anime is Nenene Sumiregawa from the Read or Die TV series.
Yes, she's quite brash and has some tsunderesque qualities.
Yet her persona and the show she's in are very atypical for a tsundere and she is more like a grouchy young woman than a tsundere.
While she's not very confident in her writing due to circumstances, she's very independent, solitary and does warm up to the other characters that come into her life.
And btw, regarding the fact that she does not have superpowers like most of the cast, she's very daring and on occasion reckless.

Also the female characters in Starship Operators are more of a realistic form and in one sense more perfect than the exaggerated archetypes.
I like my women realistic and not stereotypical.
I wish more series with more realistic characters were made.
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turboyoshi



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:08 am Reply with quote
Hmm, interesting topic. I'm a guy and I sure don't know what the perfect man is but barachem's description seems to be pretty close to my own ideas.

I'm glad Paradise Kiss was brought up, I loved that series. I completely agree with Sara, though. I hate George and see him as a person who is ultimately selfish and not capable of a genuine love. At the least, he's more in love with his work than he'd ever be with a woman. And yet, that type seem to have their fans and I find myself completely unable to comprehend this.

Casey's mini biology lesson is news to me though. It seems to support my own experiences but I thought I was just easy.
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posterior_praiser



Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:47 am Reply with quote
Some of the male archetypes I do find that I fall for when it comes to anime. I always hated the 'stoic bishi' thing, but damned if I didn't think Kanda from D. Grey-man was hot Anime hyper!!! He had no personality to speak of other than being a jerk, yet he still was the character I liked most.

I wonder why the character who's a jerk always seems to gain the most fanbase among girls? I think women have this insane idea in their collective heads that they can change a man to make him love you, or that he'll change if he's abusive. It really is weird. I never liked the man-woman archetype that yuu watase always shoved around as her main male (tooya and Tamahome both). If I wanted to see two women in a relationship, I'd read some yuri. Anime hyper!!!
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LordPrometheus



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 422
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:57 am Reply with quote
Quote:
A decent guy, not a slick bastard.

A good guy, not a nice guy.


Call me crazy, but I always sort of lumped, "decent", "good", and "nice" into the same general category of behavior. What am I missing here, and why are "good" and "nice" mutually exclusive?? Confused
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