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NEWS: Viz Media Disables Embeded Videos from Hulu, Joost


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Brass2TheMax



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:06 pm Reply with quote
jsieczka wrote:
Brass2TheMax wrote:
Lots of talk that did not answer the question asked

What makes you a fan if you are disrespecting the creators wishes in regards to fansubs? Is that better it is a simple question, what is your answer?

Fine, I'll dumb it down for you, since you seem to want to completely avoid the fact that I spelled out for you exactly why you should have read my entire post. I see that again you decided my previous one was just too much to read. It's almost a complete waste of time since you probably won't read this one either, but here goes:

To answer your question, plain and simple (for simple and impatient minds, apparently):

1. I'm a fan for the shows I watch because I love them
2. I'm a fan for the shows I watch because I want to watch them in their full quality glory, however it is available
3. Related to the above, I would prefer to pay for the highest quality product, rather than watch fansubs, but that's not always an option that's available *right away after the show airs*. I'll buy it later though.
4. I'm a fan for disrespecting the creators wishes of the shows I watch in regards to fansubs because I first download the fansubs after the show airs, and as soon as a high quality release is available, I put the money right back in their pockets by buying it, like I've said more than once, and like you've failed to read more than once.
5. In extremely rare cases, where releases are not made at all or in a way that I can acquire them through legal means, I will keep the fansubs because there is simply no other way. This RARELY is the case.

Do you understand, little one?
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:16 pm Reply with quote
Brass2TheMax wrote:
jsieczka wrote:
Brass2TheMax wrote:
Lots of talk that did not answer the question asked

What makes you a fan if you are disrespecting the creators wishes in regards to fansubs? Is that better it is a simple question, what is your answer?

Fine, I'll dumb it down for you, since you seem to want to completely avoid the fact that I spelled out for you exactly why you should have read my entire post. I see that again you decided my previous one was just too much to read. It's almost a complete waste of time since you probably won't read this one either, but here goes:

To answer your question, plain and simple (for simple and impatient minds, apparently):

1. I'm a fan for the shows I watch because I love them
2. I'm a fan for the shows I watch because I want to watch them in their full quality glory, however it is available
3. Related to the above, I would prefer to pay for the highest quality product, rather than watch fansubs, but that's not always an option that's available *right away after the show airs*. I'll buy it later though.
4. I'm a fan for disrespecting the creators wishes of the shows I watch in regards to fansubs because I first download the fansubs after the show airs, and as soon as a high quality release is available, I put the money right back in their pockets by buying it.
5. In extremely rare cases, where releases are not made at all or in a way that I can acquire them through legal means, I will keep the fansubs because there is simply no other way. This RARELY is the case.

Do you understand, little one?


But what of the shows you don't like thaat you watch through fansub?
What if there is no HD release planned becuase the series didn't sell well enough to get one?
There is no way you can prove point 3, and there is no official release plan that has it right after something airs. That sounds more like entitlement then an actual point.
And there is no way to prove 4 either, as the sales/ actual HD has to be there to begin with to release. To my knowledge Samurai 7 was in HD but it didn't do to well....
And there is always an R2 release so how is your R2 collection if you put money back in their pockets so to speak?
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:21 pm Reply with quote
I call bullshit, no one would defend fansubs this much if they actually bought anime.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:26 pm Reply with quote
jsieczka wrote:
I was meaning the other ads such as border ads and pop-ups and the like. It is mostly about control and whose sites they want there streams on, and there is nothing wrong with that.


The main ad revenue is the embedded ad ... the border ads and pop-ups pay for the website, because other than the video streaming a website is pretty cheap, but its the embedded ads that pay for the streaming and the rights. If the stream is embedded, they don't carry the cost of the website, so the loss of border ads and pop-ups is a pretty much a wash.

The issue of control is likely the location of the viewer ... different rights contracts in different regions will have different terms and conditions, and most streaming sites are not set up to filter by country of the viewer. It can't be a forbidding hurdle, since CR does it (as shown by complaints on the video library wall whenever a video stream cannot be show in the Philippines) ... but if a rights holder in a country/region region with digital distribution rights complained about streaming into their market, they would have to fix it up.
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Brass2TheMax



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:03 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
But what of the shows you don't like thaat you watch through fansub?
What if there is no HD release planned becuase the series didn't sell well enough to get one?
There is no way you can prove point 3, and there is no official release plan that has it right after something airs. That sounds more like entitlement then an actual point.
And there is no way to prove 4 either, as the sales/ actual HD has to be there to begin with to release. To my knowledge Samurai 7 was in HD but it didn't do to well....
And there is always an R2 release so how is your R2 collection if you put money back in their pockets so to speak?


Of the shows that I don't like that I watch through fansub, I just delete the fansubs obviously, no point in keeping something I don't like. And in most cases if I don't like a show, I drop it anyway. You might say I did get something for nothing in that case, since I got to watch some without paying anything at all in the end, and you're right, but heck, maybe it's better for me that I know I don't like something so I don't end up wasting my money on it. I know it works completely in my favour, but for all the times I do buy, I think the ratio works out highly in favour of the industry anyway.

As for "entitlement", your word not mine. I don't believe I'm entitled to anything in this world for free. The vast majority of the shows that I follow I buy, so keeping a fansub until the official release, in the end, doesn't hurt the industry, because I'm going to be paying anyway.

As for point 4, if something airs in HD, then never gets an HD release (regardless of region), I will keep the fansub instead of buying the standard definition DVD. However, if it aired in SD I will buy the SD DVD. This is rarely ever the case when I don't buy due to a high definition release not being available, at least so far with the shows I've seen. I haven't seen any of the shows you mentioned as your examples for this one, just worked out that way.

And for the record, I always try to import from Japan, as long as there are English subtitles onboard the release. In the instance there isn't, I'll go with a localization from North America, but it's a last resort when it comes to buying for me. I realize not as much money goes back to the creators if I buy locally because of bureaucracy.

Quote:
I call bullshit, no one would defend fansubs this much if they actually bought anime.

Call it whatever you want, you're on one side of the fence, and I'm on neither side. I'm not defending fansubs at all, in fact, I've stated time and time again I'd prefer to own the official (Japanese preferably) release, and only keep fansubs if there are absolutely no other options, or there is no quality release that can compare, which is hardly ever (for the specific shows I watch, this might not hold true for you). If you can't try to be unbiased, please just keep it to yourself. I'm trying to have a reasonable, interesting conversation.

*sigh* This is my last post about this, people here either A) Can't read, B) Are too lazy to read, C) Are overly defensive when there is nothing to be defensive about, or D) Are just looking to pick a fight.

I believe probably 80% of what I do is reasonable and is good for the industry. There are people out there who are much worse than myself and who do not contribute at all, so if you really have a bone to pick with someone, find someone else. I never intended this to turn into a fansub versus official release debate. But what do you expect from elitist dub-whores (and some just plain elitists) from ANN? Guess it's my fault for thinking people were sort of reasonable.
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Shii



Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 110
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:47 am Reply with quote
I'm glad Anime News Network has its own forums because all the people who want to bitch about free streaming anime can do it here instead of crapping up other websites.
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zanarkand princess



Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 1484
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:29 am Reply with quote
Brass2TheMax wrote:
Quote:
But what of the shows you don't like thaat you watch through fansub?
What if there is no HD release planned becuase the series didn't sell well enough to get one?
There is no way you can prove point 3, and there is no official release plan that has it right after something airs. That sounds more like entitlement then an actual point.
And there is no way to prove 4 either, as the sales/ actual HD has to be there to begin with to release. To my knowledge Samurai 7 was in HD but it didn't do to well....
And there is always an R2 release so how is your R2 collection if you put money back in their pockets so to speak?


Of the shows that I don't like that I watch through fansub, I just delete the fansubs obviously, no point in keeping something I don't like. And in most cases if I don't like a show, I drop it anyway. You might say I did get something for nothing in that case, since I got to watch some without paying anything at all in the end, and you're right, but heck, maybe it's better for me that I know I don't like something so I don't end up wasting my money on it. I know it works completely in my favour, but for all the times I do buy, I think the ratio works out highly in favour of the industry anyway.

As for "entitlement", your word not mine. I don't believe I'm entitled to anything in this world for free. The vast majority of the shows that I follow I buy, so keeping a fansub until the official release, in the end, doesn't hurt the industry, because I'm going to be paying anyway.

As for point 4, if something airs in HD, then never gets an HD release (regardless of region), I will keep the fansub instead of buying the standard definition DVD. However, if it aired in SD I will buy the SD DVD. This is rarely ever the case when I don't buy due to a high definition release not being available, at least so far with the shows I've seen. I haven't seen any of the shows you mentioned as your examples for this one, just worked out that way.

And for the record, I always try to import from Japan, as long as there are English subtitles onboard the release. In the instance there isn't, I'll go with a localization from North America, but it's a last resort when it comes to buying for me. I realize not as much money goes back to the creators if I buy locally because of bureaucracy.

Quote:
I call bullshit, no one would defend fansubs this much if they actually bought anime.

Call it whatever you want, you're on one side of the fence, and I'm on neither side. I'm not defending fansubs at all, in fact, I've stated time and time again I'd prefer to own the official (Japanese preferably) release, and only keep fansubs if there are absolutely no other options, or there is no quality release that can compare, which is hardly ever (for the specific shows I watch, this might not hold true for you). If you can't try to be unbiased, please just keep it to yourself. I'm trying to have a reasonable, interesting conversation.

*sigh* This is my last post about this, people here either A) Can't read, B) Are too lazy to read, C) Are overly defensive when there is nothing to be defensive about, or D) Are just looking to pick a fight.

I believe probably 80% of what I do is reasonable and is good for the industry. There are people out there who are much worse than myself and who do not contribute at all, so if you really have a bone to pick with someone, find someone else. I never intended this to turn into a fansub versus official release debate. But what do you expect from elitist dub-whores (and some just plain elitists) from ANN? Guess it's my fault for thinking people were sort of reasonable.


Elitist dub-whores. Don't even start on that. What automatically makes the Japanese seiyuu so much better anyway?

You don't buy the DVD if it doesn't come out in HD? Are you serious? "It's not in HD I don't want it Anime cry" You sound like a big baby. We rarely get releases that are any worse then the R2 ones for one and secondly that's the most idiotic excuse for not buying the DVD I have ever heard.

You sound like you have a sub elitist mind set and you hate the american companies for no reason at all. You say you only import if there is an english sub on the disc. How often is that? It really doesn't make you any better of a fan then me if you brought an import. It just means you spend more money for less product.
You are the one who isn't being reasonable you just sound like a brat who once again feels like they are entitled to something.
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sdhd



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 169
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:46 am Reply with quote
Brass2TheMax wrote:


And for the record, I always try to import from Japan, as long as there are English subtitles onboard the release. In the instance there isn't, I'll go with a localization from North America, but it's a last resort when it comes to buying for me. I realize not as much money goes back to the creators if I buy locally because of bureaucracy.


Which anime in Japan is subtitled with English subs? The money people pay for the R1 release do go back to the Japanese anime companies and it is called licensing.
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:50 am Reply with quote
Brass2TheMax wrote:

Of the shows that I don't like that I watch through fansub, I just delete the fansubs obviously, no point in keeping something I don't like. And in most cases if I don't like a show, I drop it anyway. You might say I did get something for nothing in that case, since I got to watch some without paying anything at all in the end, and you're right, but heck, maybe it's better for me that I know I don't like something so I don't end up wasting my money on it. I know it works completely in my favour, but for all the times I do buy, I think the ratio works out highly in favour of the industry anyway.


Then your simply stealing then, not going to even watch something with ads? or other support structures.

Brass2TheMax wrote:

As for "entitlement", your word not mine. I don't believe I'm entitled to anything in this world for free. The vast majority of the shows that I follow I buy, so keeping a fansub until the official release, in the end, doesn't hurt the industry, because I'm going to be paying anyway.


Then why are you continuing to use and defend fansubs, if your not entitled to it? Do you need them for something?

Brass2TheMax wrote:

As for point 4, if something airs in HD, then never gets an HD release (regardless of region), I will keep the fansub instead of buying the standard definition DVD. However, if it aired in SD I will buy the SD DVD. This is rarely ever the case when I don't buy due to a high definition release not being available, at least so far with the shows I've seen. I haven't seen any of the shows you mentioned as your examples for this one, just worked out that way.


Japan is experimenting with HD right now, but the shows that have done so have not been successful financially speaking. AS to why we are not seeing HD/Blu-ray releases? Simple, it's expensive. Several anime series have been released on DVD in HD/Blu-Ray, they haven't been successful. Especially Blu-Ray and licensing costs (unless Sony). It makes sense to release on SD DVDs considering that is what most show still are.

Brass2TheMax wrote:

And for the record, I always try to import from Japan, as long as there are English subtitles onboard the release. In the instance there isn't, I'll go with a localization from North America, but it's a last resort when it comes to buying for me. I realize not as much money goes back to the creators if I buy locally because of bureaucracy.


As previously stated, How many do that? I imagine very few. And money does go back to the creators, licensing agreements anyone?

You also know under fair use you could make a copy, very easy to get a program and subtitle it yourself before burning the copy.

Brass2TheMax wrote:

*sigh* This is my last post about this, people here either A) Can't read, B) Are too lazy to read, C) Are overly defensive when there is nothing to be defensive about, or D) Are just looking to pick a fight.


I'll take option E) I care about the industry.

Brass2TheMax wrote:

I believe probably 80% of what I do is reasonable and is good for the industry. There are people out there who are much worse than myself and who do not contribute at all, so if you really have a bone to pick with someone, find someone else. I never intended this to turn into a fansub versus official release debate. But what do you expect from elitist dub-whores (and some just plain elitists) from ANN? Guess it's my fault for thinking people were sort of reasonable.


Well I could ask you, as a fan, why isn't it 100%? As to being elitist, you seem to have things confused, I'm pretty reasonable myself, it's just when someone starts making excuses and whines about something that when you look back and see the industry, you can find a logical explanation as to why it is happening.
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1684
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:45 am Reply with quote
This thread is NOT ABOUT FANSUBS.

Drop it now, or a few people are going to get temp-banned and this thread will be locked.
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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:32 pm Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:
This thread is NOT ABOUT FANSUBS.

Drop it now, or a few people are going to get temp-banned and this thread will be locked.


My apologies,

Back on topic- Hopefully this issue can resolve itself. How about for episodes that can't be embedded/streamed here, a link to the official/provider site that does so? As knowledge about them is probably the thing that is needed for them.
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Mad_Scientist
Subscriber
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 3011
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:53 pm Reply with quote
The timing of this announcement is kind of ironic, considering ANN just got that big embed deal with Joost, and now all the Viz shows are gone. I can still watch things at Joost, but I much prefer ANN's method of organizing the shows.

Hopefully this will get resolved soon. But I'm not sure I trust the PR when they say it will be.
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