Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Best Friends Forever
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DomFortress
 Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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Eyeshield 21, anyone? 
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SongstressCela
 Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Really? No concrete conclusions about pretty much the Very First Yuri Couple ever? I don't know which Utena you were watching, but that was a heck of a lot more overt than any "close friendship."
You're really reaching here. In all the years since AzuDai has been created, I have never once heard such a preposterous idea. Can't a simple slice-of-life manga be just that? Do you really need to over analyze it and attribute some kind of psycho-social philosophy behind it? Really?
To be fair, the vast majority of yuri fans only pair couples that have at least a smidge of canon possibility to the relationship. We're nowhere near as bad as the yaoi fangirls that throw together everything under the sun, no matter how ridiculous. I'm completely behind everyone saying that shipping together people for the sake of shipping is stupidly vapid and inane, but sometimes I think people are mildly homophobic in turning a blind eye to some pretty blatant couplings. |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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Wow, this was quite possibly the most one-sided discussion yet.
I hate to say it, but I think that is a serious case of short-selling SuperGals. I can think of few other series that can compete with SuperGals in back story and relational framework. I loved Azumanga, but I think SuperGals had more heart and more grit. You can see much of what makes up each Azumanga character from their opening segment. It's a hugely entertaining series but there aren't too many surprises really, what you see is what you get. SuperGals though, seems to have a lot more to learn about each character than first meets your eye. It was a lot of fun following their stories and getting to see how they came about. SG is full of illogical nonsense, just like most anime series, but there is plenty of real issues as well, even if they're often exaggerated and then glossed over as each plot point comes to a close.
That doesn't sound like a clarifier so much as a sexist smack to the face. I had to re-read it just to make sure I wasn't somehow missing the part where you explained where this blanket conjecture was coming from.
Based on what, exactly? I'm confused by your apparent need to pigeonhole everything into well defined audiences. SuperGals was recommended to me by all manner of fans, male and female, old and young. I honestly thought ANN was all about respecting the widespread appeal of the medium, but here in this article it seems as though we're reverting back toward the overly simplistic views of the 1990's.
Reading your comments gives me the impression you're every bit as confused over what guys think as you seem to think we are about girls. Oh, the irony.
What a shocker, you mean American television is full of worthless trash? Who'd have thunk it? 
Just judging from the massive number of series I've seen that have poor endings or no endings at all I'd have to say that calling it a "full" story is going a bit too far. They have "a" story, sure, but a complete story? In far too many examples to mention they're not even close.
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geishageek
 Posts: 571 Location: Pleasant Valley, NY |
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I never once while watching Utena thought of Anthy and Utena as lovers. And it always bothers me when people refer to it as a homoerotic anime. I have always felt that had a relationship that surpassed normal friendship. I do not think even the BFF term could be used to describe it. The movie is a different story with the homoeroticism, but that was just a vast waste of space anyway that I typically do not even want talk about it. |
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kadian1364
 Posts: 60 Location: Indiana |
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That bit and corresponding links about the Bechdel Test were really interesting and were quite revealing about how Western films are made and their influence they hold on society. As misogynistic a lot of westerners perceive Japanese culture, some of their cultural products really aren't as bad as most of our stuff.
In regards to anime, I see a lot of the reverse effect; female characters are capable of a multitude of roles, relationships, and personal growth, while I perceive male ones to be somewhat stale and predictably structured. Specifically, I'm thinking of Miyazaki's works, where his heroines are compassionate and clever, but are also brave, strong-willed, and morally upstanding. I can barely remember the last time I was able to relate well to, or even remotely like, a male protagonist (Kyon from Haruhi Suzumiya would be the last one). While females can take on all the roles male would do, it seems there are limits to the "allowable" emotional range and depth of male characters. Imagine a slice-of-life show made with an all guy cast. If you can see how that would never work, you can understand where I'm coming from. |
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SongstressCela
Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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So true. I know a ton of guys that are completely grossed out by some of the overly-blunt discussions that go on in Girls High, at that. And to say AzuDai doesn't have transcendent appeal and is even remotely aimed at a single audience...wait, what?
Was thinking the same thing and I'm not even a guy. Sigh. |
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daxomni
Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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Absolutely, and I was kind of hoping this would come up more in the article. I find the way some aspects of Japanese society are turned upside down in anime to be rather interesting. The idea that a society which is so restrictive toward women would have so many strong female roles in anime is both confusing and intriguing and it's something I've long wondered about. Maybe we can hear more about that in a future article.
I thought Ouran Host Club was going to be just that kind of show, until a certain character turned out to be a girl. D'oh! 
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Joichiro Nishi
Posts: 163 |
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That's the reason I can't understand people who watch Marimite looking for yuri. BTW, I'm a guy and I usually prefer the conflictive friendship between male characters. I found curious that there is admiration in male friendship and female friendship. Yumi admires Sachiko's femininity and a shounen character usually admire his friend's masculinity (perserverance, courage, strenght, etc) |
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Rika-chama
 Posts: 87 |
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Maybe it's my gay-ness speaking here but Utena and Anthy some something going on that was more than just friendship. I agree that throughout the show they are friends but afterwards? It's clear that they chose each other over anyone else. I hate how lesbianism is being thought of as a bad form of female closeness in this thread. I agree that people assuming every girl in MariMite is gay is rediculous but it's hard to say some aren't. Yumi seems to be getting the hard gay for Sachiko in this new season even moreso than previous seasons |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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You think so?
I disagree with Casey on both of these points, personally, and I thought I made it clear enough in the column. Guess not. I don't think target audience is a good enough excuse to make assumptions about how any person should perceive and enjoy a series. I love Azumanga Daioh, myself. It's one of the most consistently re-watched titles on my DVD shelf. Who am I to assume how others perceive the series, regardless of their gender? I apologize if I wasn't clear enough in the discussion. |
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SongstressCela
Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Yes, and yes. Kind of makes it sad, really. On both accounts. xD |
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musouka
Posts: 707 |
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You think yuri started with Utena? Oh dear... |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Don't misunderstand me here. Super Gals is one of my favorite shows of all time. I love the characters, and I especially love Ran because she cares deeply about her friends. But a running theme in the show is that friendship *is* everything. And that's *not* a bad thing, like you somehow perceived it to be. Friendship *does* make the bad things go away. You don't need to sell yourself to men. You don't need to study until your head hurts. You don't need to force yourself to be in a relationship. You don't need to _________________. If you have strong, female friends beside you, you can get the support and the love that you need to keep going and to do what's right. How is that a bad thing? I love Super Gals, and while I didn't get to gush about it in the article, I do think that strong female friendships can conquer all the problems in the world (HYPERBOLE).
Unfortunately, if we tried to be complete and cover every facet of every topic every week, we'd run out of things to talk about. Part of the reason these forum discussions are so valuable is so we can identify weak points, parts we need to cover, and see if we can find interesting guests to help us cover those points.
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ArthurFrDent
 Posts: 466 |
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I think friendship is so much more all encompassing than what narrow view I think I am seeing here. It doesn't matter if two friends are talking about what will grow well in a garden or if they are losing their lover to someone else, the friendship is the basis of that conversation. I want to note there that it doesn't matter if the lover is the opposite gender, or even if the lover is that very same friend.
That is where I find that bechdel rule to be interesting. If they are constantly talking about a lover, what difference does does their gender make? Is it that they are talking about a lover, rather than their own friendship? This is where I see the size of friendship to be so much larger. Who do you talk about your LIFE with? The whole thing, everything. The part we see in a show is perhaps a different point of view, but that doesn't make the friend part go away. I may be odd in looking at a story in a way where each character has a much larger secret life that I don't know... so when evidence of friendship occurs... Like a look, or quiet support happens, I know there is a whole backstory there. When that friendship is in the foreground, there might be a moment when they speak of lovers as well, and there is a whole secret lovelife there... Is this an odd way to see it all? |
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SongstressCela
Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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Nah, but it's pretty much the first thing most people jump to when they think about modern anime and yuri pairings. Either that or Uranus and Neptune. |
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