Forum - View topicANNCast - The Long Con
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
|
|||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
dandelion_rose
 Posts: 657 Location: Kuala Lumpur |
|
|||||||||
|
Angelmcazares, keep your cool.
You weren't talking about 'otaku anime' or whatever at first. You were talking about shounen anime. I live in Asia. Uncensored Dragon Ball, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, FMA and the like are all OK for children in the eyes of many parents here. I'm not condemning you, I'm expressing surprise and culture shock. America is generally seen as the home of excess and hedonism to other parts of the world, it is always a bit weird to find pockets of America that are more conservative than parts of the world that are pretty conservative. If you want to know another brush with American puritanism I had, it was when a friend from Massachusetts expressed surprise that I could get alcohol over the counter in 7-Elevens. I was surprised that in his state you couldn't. Just to be fair -- some possible 'puritan' ways of parenting I'd do that some here might object to: no video game consoles until after college age. No access to the computers unless supervised until age 13. Cutting of Internet access if necessary. Corporal punishment if necessary. Mandatory music lessons at age 5. Mandatory cram school for every subject below a grade B. Homeschool a high likelihood. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
dewlwieldthedarpachief
 Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
|
|||||||||
Dear ANN forum, Puritanism describes the beliefs of a few Protestant groups with origins in England, i.e. it has a lot more going on than some hangups about human sexuality. It's really not fair to introduce this level of hyperbole in a conversation about what cartoons may be appropriate for children. Some might call it childish. This is not the same as calling something puritan, puritanic, or puritanical. These terms describe a austere, pious, or otherwise religiously or morally skewed individual; perhaps someone who's a little holier-than-thou. You don't need religion to be puritanical. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
|
|||||||||
To be fair, 4Kids made sure those were perfectly safe for American kids. Now, if you saw the original versions, where Mewtwo wasn't a generic villain out to take over the world, but a tragic hero fighting for his right to survive and dealing with identity crisis of being called a clone who had no right to live? Who knows. 4Kids apparently thought the original movie plot was a bit too heavy/deep for kids, so they changed it to a typical 'villain wants to take over the world' schtick. Any anime can be fine for kids with enough censoring and changes; companies like 4Kids, Nelvana, and Saban prove that point well enough Though my outlook is if these series really were suitable for kids here, they wouldn't go through so many changes and censoring. Not like kids themselves ever have a say in the matter, they're always being decided for. Japanese kids turn out well enough with them, though, so I don't see why they think American kids are too dumb to handle it. Though I think we all know it's not actually about the kids, but appealing to advertisers and parental groups. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Sewingrose
 Posts: 579 |
|
|||||||||
That's... sort of a weird thing to say, you're taking an entire medium and treating it like it's completely represented by a subpart. That's like me saying that all Video Games are not for children because of stuff like Grand Theft Auto or other M rated titles. Yeah those titles aren't for kids, and they shouldn't play them just like children shouldn't be watching stuff like Higurashi or what have you. But I'm completely dismissing games that are meant for children, Pokemon or Scribblenauts are completely fine for kids to play. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
|
|||||||||
|
I thought we had recently gone over this labeling and generalizing people and groups as puritans just recently. Why is it this label is being tossed out again because someone apparently disagrees with others about the role of anime towards specific age groups (even when their own post acknowledges they are speaking specifically of mainstream anime and not the children anime they aren't familiar with). While granted, it seems pointless to argue that anime is not for children even while admitting you're not familiar with the anime that is for children (an admission that defeats the argument), this is still not cause to sit there and label people as puritians and all that entails (closed-mindedness, etc).
Ditch the labels people, it does no greater justice in this application than when people mis-label anime fans "perverts". |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
|
|||||||||
|
I was almost in agreement with Zac and Bamboo about this not being a very interesting season and then I realized that I have seven shows in my Crunchyroll queue!
Granted, I might drop 2 to 4 of them. I will probably have a better idea of what I'm in for the long haul at the point when Bamboo updates her column. So far, Natsuyuki Rendezvous (my fave of the season - no surprise there), Hakuoki Reimeiroku, Humanity Has Declined, and Total Eclipse are probably going to make the cut. Total Eclipse has enough going for it that I will keep watching, even though I don't find the characters particularly compelling, the mech action is exciting and the Beta are satisfactorily terrifying. I agree with Zac about Humanity has Declined. It's a very amusing satire about human apathy, and is clever in its presentation. I'm especially impressed by the way they continue to keep it light and funny, considering what they are satirizing. I would watch Moyashimon if they had made the first season available. I wish that the producers of this show weren't so cynical in their apparent belief that all of us have already watched this series fansubbed. This is a show I would really like to see. I hope they change their minds and stream the first season. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
tuxedocat
Posts: 2183 |
|
|||||||||
Depending on the discussion, I've been labeled both a pervert and a puritan at one time or another.
I can only speak subjectively, but when I was a child, I was more traumatized by violence than sexuality. Especially in horror films. I remember seeing a horror film that included torture devices. I had nightmares about being enclosed in the iron maiden for months. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Ojamajo LimePie
 Posts: 766 |
|
|||||||||
Angelic Layer is one of those daytime anime. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
|
|||||||||
"Apathy," is a very good word for discussion Humanity Has Declined. I feel like I was just missing it before, so thank yhou. I think part of why I haven't seen it as preaching at me is that nobody in the series seems overtly exercised over anything; it seems less about specific bad things than the attitude that enables or permits them.
That surprises me. I thought that we were seen as the beacon of democracy and freedom. I kill me! Just like Alf used to say before I swallowed all of that aspirin and vodka... But I'm genuinely surprised that the United States has that kind of reputation. There are places that we think of as havens of hedonistic excess, namely some 'infamous' cities, well, pretty much New York and San Francisco, although it's not likely that this corresponds very well with reality. I think that suburban American, which has a bigger share of the land, wealth and popular consciousness than of the population, has a sort of bourgeois morality about these things. Of course, outward protestations of morality don't correspond with actual practice; I recall a study once that found that the state with greatest consumption of internet pornography was Utah.
You should try Pennsylvania. We have an honest-to-goodness socialized alcoholic beverage distribution and sale system originally meant, in the words of Governor Gifford Pinchot, "discourage the purchase of alcoholic beverages by making it as inconvenient and expensive as possible." Hell, you need to be twenty one with proof of age to buy non-alcoholic beer. (In fairness, a significant part of why this system persists is political rather than moralistic)
That'd be relatively harsh, but not unheard of, by American standards (I kind of wish that my parents had ridden me harder) and some Americans would seriously wig out at the prospect of corporal punishment (I concede that the concept makes me uneasy), although it's positively soft by tiger mother standards. (Fun fact: Homeschooling is a politically charged issue in the United States because it is practiced by some very conservative Christian families as a protest against perceived secular liberal biases in schools)
I don't think that it's in any sense right to dismiss the question just because you spy a possible complication. The fact that disagreements exist doesn't mean that there is validity to the concept, only that, as important social questions are apt to be, that it might be a little complicated. Any problems can probably be resolved with some further, more thoughtful examination and probably exist at the margins of an otherwise well-founded concept, which would make it rather irresponsible to flippantly dismiss it. Especially not with such an obviously glib rationalization that reads at least as much as a defense mechanism as an arguments. If nothing else, it seems problematical for implicitly putting the onus on the women, as though they're culpable for and responsible the attitudes of others. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
|
|||||||||
Oh no. It is not a "home of excess and hedonism" at all. Maybe in a tiny few cities like New York, but otherwise America is just a hellhole of conservatism and nationalism. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
brankoburcksen
Posts: 126 |
|
|||||||||
|
I found it very intriguing how Zac and Bamboo got caught up in a discussion about "SAO" while complaining about the implausibility of the premise. What I think has gotten lost is what actually works in the show.
I could imagine a side story running alongside the main one, in the real world, from the point of view of a detective investigating the development of the game and uncovering a conspiracy that explains the logistical problems of the show. However, any explanation would be unsatisfying and overly complicated. It drags you out of the story into extended exposition. Instead, what they wisely do is develop the world and the characters inside the game. They explain the rules and how everything functions. That on its own does a lot to give the online world credibility yet offers little in the way of balancing out the illogical basis for the story. That's where the characters come in. The writers take the time to show how the rules and the ways of the game allow the characters to live in such a place. For instance, in episode 2 Kirito shows Asuna how to put cream on her bread. This has nothing to do with beating the game or why they are there. Instead it offers the viewer a chance to see how two people bond over learning how to live in this online world. Other aspects like the relationship between beta-testers and the new players, as well as low level and high level players, give emotional weight to how the characters interact with each other. By focusing on that, it avoids long winded explanations that satisfy no one and offer little in the way of actual story. Well made movies and TV shows do this all the time because what people really care about is other people, not concepts. Unless ideas serve an emotional purpose to the story, it becomes boring. Your mind wanders, and you pick apart the inconsistencies. It's only when I stop and think of the premise that I'm taken out of the show. As of episode 3 though, it hasn't been brought up again, so I am left curious about what will happen to the characters. I'm much more curious about Kirito and Asuna eating dinner in the opening song than the game designer's plans. That at least shows I'm more interested in the story than logistics of the concept. However, "SAO" can very easily go the way of "Future Diary" and become muddled by too many ideas and twists in the plot to keep suspension of disbelief. Just keep it simple and focus on the characters and their relationship to the game world. [Note: The recent Half in the Bag movie review of "The Dark Knight Rises" on redlettermedia.com provides a good explanation of how movies with plot holes work.] Concerning the game designer: As far as the question of how an intelligent person with so much potential could throw away a promising future on killing innocent people without remorse...well, unfortunately, reality answered that question for us. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
CrowLia
 Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||||||
|
I was going to write some long shit about "kids CAN enjoy anime" but I'll just say children are exposed to much worse than gore-y cartoon -many children play RPG videogames that are more violent than most anime I've ever watched- and while I'd certainly not sit my kids to watch Gantz or Higurashi, I would probably chain them to the chair to watch Sakura or Bleach.
I've always wanted to go to Comic-Con but hearing Bamboo and Zac talking about the gigantic lines, the hours of waiting for panels of nothingness and the gigantic crowds makes me wonder if I really want to. I guess I'll stick to my local Con -as crappy as it may be- and keep hoping I'll be able to go to Jump Festa someday. About J-dramas, I tried to get into them and watched the obligatory Hana Yori Dango -the Japanese version, with the super hot Matsumoto Jun and the Arashi music- and I loved it to bits. I also liked HanaKimi but beyond that, I've always lacked the willpower to watch doramas. I just like Anime much more and don't have that much free time, so I prefer to watch two anime episodes than one dorama episode. But I too know many people who have gradully lost interest in anime, or that now watch a lot less anime than they used to, in favor of watching doramas. Korean ones are particularly popular right now. Finally I am enjoying Sword Art Online, though episode 3 kinda sucked. I mean, I was hearing Bamboo and Zac pointing out each and every one of those plotholes and I thought "I didn't even think of that in the first place, and now that I do, I still don't particularly care". It's like asking why most anime teens are orphans/ parents-conveniently-never-home or why in anime schools no authority seems to care if a particular club or student council does whatever they want -Haruhi and Medaka, for quick obvious references- |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
YotaruVegeta
 Posts: 1061 Location: New York |
|
|||||||||
|
This was almost the most downer ANNCast in its history.
I do agree with the Panty & Stocking dub issues. The original already had enough profanity- IN ENGLISH- and it didn't need any more. I'm a fan of the show, though. I like potty humor sometimes. I don't apologize one bit for it. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
dewlwieldthedarpachief
Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
|
|||||||||
|
Considering that the ANNCast frequently sports an NSFW language warning, I rather doubt the hosts and guests have much against humour with human fluids. That, in addition to the fact that Zac is a self-professed comedy nerd, points towards disdain of the humour itself and not the content.
I'll admit that I laughed once watching Panty and Stocking...didn't convince me to stick around though. |
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group