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NEWS: Hiroshima Asked to Stop Using Barefoot Gen Manga in Schools


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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:32 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
A bunch of ultra-right nationalists in Japan want to re-write history by denying schoolkids to be shown a famous semi-autobiographical account of the Hiroshima bombing. That is what this thread should be about. Not whose grandpas were in the right or wrong.


rikiki wrote:
This is also probably because in school, the textbooks are revised from time to time to tone down or downright omit some of the cruelties they've done during war. There was an uproar when they were revising the textbooks last time.


Except it's not going to work because we live in the age of internet, and good way of getting information off the web (hell, even the Rape of Nanjing has it's own Japanese wiki, so any kids in Japan can read about it online). Also I don't know how many people in Japan have relatives living in US or overseas because they're going to find out about those atrocities Japan did during WW2 from their relatives who have accessed to free information. So you can't whitewash or cover up information when there's other way to get that info. It didn't stop people in Mainland China for finding out what the communist regime did to China in the 50's, 60's, and this. This also led to Chinese people to start a movement to renouncing the regime.

Sorry if it'll go off topic: I find it ironic that China make Rape of Nanjing, and Japanese war crimes to China a big deal in China yet the Chinese regime decide to cover up and not acknowledge their atrocities like Tianammen Square massacre, the great Chinese famine, destroying traditional culture, the occupation of Tibet and claiming it's part of China when it's not, and the persecution of Falun Gong practioners.

Back on topic: Why is Hiroshima making a big deal out of Barefoot Gen now? Souldn't they have I don't know complain about it when the manga first came out in the 70's. I find this complaint a little odd.
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giao_su



Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Great Lakes, USA [near, not in]
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:16 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
[snip]
Except it's not going to work because we live in the age of internet, and good way of getting information off the web (hell, even the Rape of Nanjing has it's own Japanese wiki, so any kids in Japan can read about it online).
[snip]
Faith in the Internet is a wonderful thing. However, were I you, I would have reservations about depending upon the Web of a billion lies to provide a reliable source of information.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:38 pm Reply with quote
giao_su wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
[snip]
Except it's not going to work because we live in the age of internet, and good way of getting information off the web (hell, even the Rape of Nanjing has it's own Japanese wiki, so any kids in Japan can read about it online).
[snip]
Faith in the Internet is a wonderful thing. However, were I you, I would have reservations about depending upon the Web of a billion lies to provide a reliable source of information.


Yes I'm aware of the internet putting up false information and things like that, but people always find the way to put up the truth. I don't think the Japanese Wiki would put lies about the Rape of Nanjing, and other atrocities that Japan did in WW2. Also the historians in Japan can use the internet/blogs to put up history about Japan atrocities during WW2. Japan hasn't pull any censorship on internet/blogs involving historical events.

To be honest, I know the Rape of Nanjing and what Japan did during WW2 was horrible, but I find the Communist regime of China's reign more horrible then what the Japanese did. If you add up the deaths from Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, The Chinese Famine, and this anti-rightist campaign. It makes the Rape of Nanjing and Japanese war crimes look like a newbie going up against a pro on a Call of Duty MP session.

Chinese death during Rape of Nanjing: 100,000–200,000 (estimate)
Chinese death during CCP reign of terror: 80,000,000+ (estimate maybe more)
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dandelion_rose



Joined: 12 May 2012
Posts: 657
Location: Kuala Lumpur
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:00 pm Reply with quote
@dormcat

It says 'Krestyaho (or Krestyahe)-Dvoryane' at the top, and 'Arakavaviya Hiromuski' at the bottom.

(the reason I say Krestyaho or Krestyahe is because I find that in Russian even the 'normal' e becomes an 'o' under certain circumstances, but I don't know exactly when and I just rely on hearing sometimes.) 

-
*ignores the rest of the discussion*
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giao_su



Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Great Lakes, USA [near, not in]
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:03 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
giao_su wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
[snip]
Except it's not going to work because we live in the age of internet, and good way of getting information off the web (hell, even the Rape of Nanjing has it's own Japanese wiki, so any kids in Japan can read about it online).
[snip]
Faith in the Internet is a wonderful thing. However, were I you, I would have reservations about depending upon the Web of a billion lies to provide a reliable source of information.

Yes I'm aware of the internet putting up false information and things like that, but people always find the way to put up the truth. I don't think the Japanese Wiki would put lies about the Rape of Nanjing, and other atrocities that Japan did in WW2. Also the historians in Japan can use the internet/blogs to put up history about Japan atrocities during WW2. Japan hasn't pull any censorship on internet/blogs involving historical events.
To be honest, I know the Rape of Nanjing and what Japan did during WW2 was horrible, but I find the Communist regime of China's reign more horrible then what the Japanese did. If you add up the deaths from Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, The Chinese Famine, and this anti-rightist campaign. It makes the Rape of Nanjing and Japanese war crimes look like a newbie going up against a pro on a Call of Duty MP session.
Chinese death during Rape of Nanjing: 100,000–200,000 (estimate)
Chinese death during CCP reign of terror: 80,000,000+ (estimate maybe more)
I fail to see the relevance of the emphasized section of your reply to my post. Your tendency to slide far off topic in this and other posts leads me to the conclusion that you are trolling.
I don't care for the Communist Party of China. At the same time, I find your dragging them into an entirely different discussion distracting and distasteful.
Please stop it.
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haplotus



Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:20 am Reply with quote
giao_su wrote:
haplotus wrote:
giao_su wrote:
By the way, what is the other side not depicted by Barefoot Gen? The story concerns experiencing the Hiroshima A-bomb explosion. So, is the other side that that being in Hiroshima when the A-bomb was dropped was really fun?

If that new group of survivors is ultra-nationalist as someone here says, then I think that they want story without leftist emphasis on the series. Because you could read Brefoot Gen that way, too.

Well, I guess I need someone to point out the "leftist emphasis" to me. I do not see anything inherently "leftist" in Barefoot Gen.
Also, virtually all of the political "right" in the U.S. and Japan support nuclear non-proliferation policies and there are even those on the political "right" who support policies aimed at getting rid of all nuclear weapons.
So, I am not sure what a "leftist emphasis" would be short of the government of Hiroshima arguing that Barefoot Gen showed why we should nationalize industry under worker control. Wink


In Japan it was in the 1950's to 70's socialists who criticized their governments acts what came about nuclear policy of country. Japan was non-nuclear country under US nuclear umbrella. I didn't meant todays political situation. Socialists lost their criticism in this case many years ago. Maybe somewhere in the late 70's or 80's, I'm not sure.

And there is some very clearly leftist episodes in the manga. For example in volume eight some right wing nationalists try to break left wing protest against Korean war and nuclear weapons. I meant this kind of leftist emphasis and I think that is what that new survivors group meant also.

By the way, I really want to know what Nakazawa might think about Fukushima Daichi nuclear disaster. Are there any interviews with Nakazawa which handle this?
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:23 am Reply with quote
giao_su wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
giao_su wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
[snip]
Except it's not going to work because we live in the age of internet, and good way of getting information off the web (hell, even the Rape of Nanjing has it's own Japanese wiki, so any kids in Japan can read about it online).
[snip]
Faith in the Internet is a wonderful thing. However, were I you, I would have reservations about depending upon the Web of a billion lies to provide a reliable source of information.

Yes I'm aware of the internet putting up false information and things like that, but people always find the way to put up the truth. I don't think the Japanese Wiki would put lies about the Rape of Nanjing, and other atrocities that Japan did in WW2. Also the historians in Japan can use the internet/blogs to put up history about Japan atrocities during WW2. Japan hasn't pull any censorship on internet/blogs involving historical events.
To be honest, I know the Rape of Nanjing and what Japan did during WW2 was horrible, but I find the Communist regime of China's reign more horrible then what the Japanese did. If you add up the deaths from Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, The Chinese Famine, and this anti-rightist campaign. It makes the Rape of Nanjing and Japanese war crimes look like a newbie going up against a pro on a Call of Duty MP session.
Chinese death during Rape of Nanjing: 100,000–200,000 (estimate)
Chinese death during CCP reign of terror: 80,000,000+ (estimate maybe more)
I fail to see the relevance of the emphasized section of your reply to my post. Your tendency to slide far off topic in this and other posts leads me to the conclusion that you are trolling.
I don't care for the Communist Party of China. At the same time, I find your dragging them into an entirely different discussion distracting and distasteful.
Please stop it.


Well, I do like to go a little off-topic. Sorry about that, I'm a human right activists and I get concerned about China human right, and I tend to express things like that from time to time. Anyway, I don't see the mod editing my comment or making big deal out of my comment.
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giao_su



Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Great Lakes, USA [near, not in]
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:26 am Reply with quote
haplotus wrote:
giao_su wrote:
haplotus wrote:
giao_su wrote:
By the way, what is the other side not depicted by Barefoot Gen? The story concerns experiencing the Hiroshima A-bomb explosion. So, is the other side that that being in Hiroshima when the A-bomb was dropped was really fun?

If that new group of survivors is ultra-nationalist as someone here says, then I think that they want story without leftist emphasis on the series. Because you could read Brefoot Gen that way, too.

Well, I guess I need someone to point out the "leftist emphasis" to me. I do not see anything inherently "leftist" in Barefoot Gen.
Also, virtually all of the political "right" in the U.S. and Japan support nuclear non-proliferation policies and there are even those on the political "right" who support policies aimed at getting rid of all nuclear weapons.
So, I am not sure what a "leftist emphasis" would be short of the government of Hiroshima arguing that Barefoot Gen showed why we should nationalize industry under worker control. Wink

In Japan it was in the 1950's to 70's socialists who criticized their governments acts what came about nuclear policy of country. Japan was non-nuclear country under US nuclear umbrella. I didn't meant todays political situation. Socialists lost their criticism in this case many years ago. Maybe somewhere in the late 70's or 80's, I'm not sure.

Because the socialists propose eliminating nukes does not make an anti-nuclear stance "leftist." As pointed out previously, the vast majority of the "right" support nuclear non-proliferation and there are many on the right who support verifiable disarmament (vide Ronald Reagan).
haplotus wrote:
And there is some very clearly leftist episodes in the manga. For example in volume eight some right wing nationalists try to break left wing protest against Korean war and nuclear weapons. I meant this kind of leftist emphasis and I think that is what that new survivors group meant also.

This actually happened, yes? It seems such an incident would be relevant to the story of a survivor of the Hiroshima A-bomb explosion.
haplotus wrote:
By the way, I really want to know what Nakazawa might think about Fukushima Daichi nuclear disaster. Are there any interviews with Nakazawa which handle this?

This is interesting, but I am not sure that the Fukushima Daichi meltdown is on topic.
Still, I am willing to compound the sin in this case.
I personally see this as an example of poor planning (placing these reactors on a coastal plain), inadequate safeguards against predictable events (tsunami are known to occur) and sloppy response.
This is not necessarily a problem unique to the nuclear power industry. I see disturbing parallels with the BP disaster in the Gulf of Mexico.
British Petroleum was drilling at depths for which they had no prior experience with the failure of a blowout protector and no coherent plan for dealing with such a problem.
The British Petroleum response plan listed a marine biologist who died four years before the plan was submitted as an expert to be contacted in the event of a spill.
The plan gave a Japanese shopping and search website as a link to one of its primary rapid deployment equipment providers in the event of a spill in the Gulf of Mexico. [I know that Japanese merchants provide a lot of cool stuff, but I had no idea they were this good.Wink]
The plan listed walruses as a sensitive biological resource in the Gulf of Mexico. Walruses don’t live anywhere near the Gulf.
In fact, most petroleum corporations, not just British Petroleum, included walruses in their oil spill regional response plans for the Gulf of Mexico despite the fact that walruses are not native to the Gulf of Mexico.

I apologize for going off topic like this. If the moderator decides to remove this post, I shall understand.


Last edited by giao_su on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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giao_su



Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 27
Location: Great Lakes, USA [near, not in]
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:37 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
giao_su wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
giao_su wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
[snip]
Except it's not going to work because we live in the age of internet, and good way of getting information off the web (hell, even the Rape of Nanjing has it's own Japanese wiki, so any kids in Japan can read about it online).
[snip]
Faith in the Internet is a wonderful thing. However, were I you, I would have reservations about depending upon the Web of a billion lies to provide a reliable source of information.

Yes I'm aware of the internet putting up false information and things like that, but people always find the way to put up the truth. I don't think the Japanese Wiki would put lies about the Rape of Nanjing, and other atrocities that Japan did in WW2. Also the historians in Japan can use the internet/blogs to put up history about Japan atrocities during WW2. Japan hasn't pull any censorship on internet/blogs involving historical events.
To be honest, I know the Rape of Nanjing and what Japan did during WW2 was horrible, but I find the Communist regime of China's reign more horrible then what the Japanese did. If you add up the deaths from Cultural Revolution, Great Leap Forward, The Chinese Famine, and this anti-rightist campaign. It makes the Rape of Nanjing and Japanese war crimes look like a newbie going up against a pro on a Call of Duty MP session.
Chinese death during Rape of Nanjing: 100,000–200,000 (estimate)
Chinese death during CCP reign of terror: 80,000,000+ (estimate maybe more)
I fail to see the relevance of the emphasized section of your reply to my post. Your tendency to slide far off topic in this and other posts leads me to the conclusion that you are trolling.
I don't care for the Communist Party of China. At the same time, I find your dragging them into an entirely different discussion distracting and distasteful.
Please stop it.

Well, I do like to go a little off-topic. Sorry about that, I'm a human right activists and I get concerned about China human right, and I tend to express things like that from time to time. Anyway, I don't see the mod editing my comment or making big deal out of my comment.

Thank you.
I have been active in human rights work for over 30 years including service on the board of directors of the U.S. chapter of an international children's rights ngo.
Be careful not to dilute your message by inserting it in irrelevant communications, e.g.,
"It is certainly a lovely day, yes?"
"It isn't a lovely day for Tibetans being oppressed by an occupying army of Chinese."
This does not serve to convince people of the rightness of your position. It is more likely to lead people to believe that you are a crackpot.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:28 am Reply with quote
In any war there is only one side. The one you, your family, and mates both old and new are on. The rest are your enemy until proven otherwise. We just can't help ourselves.
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infiltration.cru



Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 321
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:50 am Reply with quote
Is this really a discussion about body counts? About weighing atrocities of different sides up against each other? Holy hell.

The fact is that one can easily accept the cruelty of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki without having to belittle what the Japanese (fascist) regime did during the war. I can accept that what happened in Germany is incomparable to any other event before or after in history but still see how the Red Army comitted rape and torture during their march on Berlin.

How can that be so difficult?
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:13 am Reply with quote
infiltration.cru wrote:
Is this really a discussion about body counts? About weighing atrocities of different sides up against each other? Holy hell.

The fact is that one can easily accept the cruelty of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki without having to belittle what the Japanese (fascist) regime did during the war. I can accept that what happened in Germany is incomparable to any other event before or after in history but still see how the Red Army comitted rape and torture during their march on Berlin.

How can that be so difficult?


THIS! An atrocity is an atrocity, regardless of who commits it. Both sides in World War II did terrible things to win. They all also suffered greatly because of what others did. Acknowledging that they had horrible things did to them doesn't automatically forgive them for any crimes they committed.
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