Forum - View topicNEWS: The Anime Network in Trouble?
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beelzebozo
 Posts: 308 Location: Aurora, Colorado |
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OK, just to be sure that I'm reading things right, Comcast is looking to drop TAN for Sony's station, correct? So what's the problem? If Animax will give me what I want (subtitled anime, shows from several different companies, coverage of anime news & conventions, maybe a smattering of J-pop), then I'll be behind it. If TAN changes their tune and gives me that, I'll support them instead.
There is something that honks me off about the tone of the TAN press release to fans and it's definitely affected my reaction to the whole event. |
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Juniper
 Posts: 51 |
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ADV isn't an underdog. They're not a small compan by any means. A lot of you are blindly rooting for TAN because it's owned by an anime company, and you think it's the right thing to do to "shoot down da man!"
The Anime Network isn't doing all that hot. The money that it's making is paling in comparison to what ADV paid to launch it. It's only linear in a handful of locations as well, so it makes an even smaller dent in Comcast's pocket. There are a lot of places that don't have TAN. "Fighting" for TAN won't help you get it, nor will it help stifle "the Man." The fact of the matter is, while anime fans are a very loud group of people, they have very small numbers. Just because a few hundred anime fans here and there ask for TAN, it's not worth Comcast's while to provide it. However, they're noticing that there's a market for anime, and they want to try their hand at it (Using Sony's project, mind you. Shall we all hate Sony now because they're a big company that's stifling the Underdog? Get a hold of yourselves). That has ADV frightened, not because their beloved customers won't be able to get their anime, but because they have yet to break even on the money they spent. They dropped $50mil to launch TAN, and at the rate everything is going, it will take several years to break even. If TAN gets dropped now, they'll be losing a lot of money. A lot of you are mistaken in thinking that ADV wants to rally support to serve its customers out of the good of their golden anime hearts. Wrong. ADV is a company just like Comcast is, and their number one priority is money. They want fans to fight for them so that they don't lose money. They're hoping that with that press release, they'll have fans all over the country banging on Comcast's door--- even though a VAST majority of these fans don't even get TAN. With the way capitalism works, smaller companies have to be willing to invest a lot of money and lose a lot of money the first few years. ADV spent $50mil and are getting antsy about losing that money. Most networks cost $100-$300 million to launch, and takes years to break even (according to Forbes). If they don't want Comcast to take away their new little money venture, they need to be willing to fight themselves, not just come crying to anime fans for support. Sure, sure, ADV is all friendly at anime conventions, but it's their job to be nice. This plea for help is just another marketing gimmick. Give Comcast a chance before you start blinding leaping into ADV's arms. ALL giant companies started out as small companies. Only the ones with balls succeed. Also, I don't see what's so evil about Comcast wanting to bring over a Sony network. Sure, Comcast may not know anime... bust Sony sure does. Who knows, maybe that station will turn out to be 100x better than TAN. Give it a chance before you start burning it down. Last edited by Juniper on Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ginzugirl
 Posts: 30 Location: Detroit, Michigan |
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Agreed. ADV's ongoing game of anime monopoly needs to stop. In the past two years ADV has devoured just about every decent anime license and is now purchasing anime licenses still in development attempting to squeeze competition out of the market. Tragically, this buying frenzy has led to deteriorating quality as ADV hustles new series to TAN and the commercial market. ADV's attempt to crush their competitors and now dictate to broadcast television - and us, the fans - is an insult free enterprise as well as to our collective intelligence as anime enthusiasts.
ADV attempts to 'guilt' fans into spreading their gospel of market domination, but not this old-timer. Even ADV's claim TAN paved the way for anime cable on cable is a crock: CNN has been broadcasting non-kodomo anime (nationally and internationally) since 1997 with stellar ratings and an exponententially growing market share. When did TAN start with OnDemand, a limited provider? 2002? If ADV wants to play "look what we've done for you fans", perhaps we ought to remember ADV's price policy, cultural hack jobs, and their replay of the Spanish Inquisition upon the fan sub-community. ADV want's our support to help it limit our anime viewing choices? No way! I say "Go ComCast", francise CMP, Sony and any other anime distributor with a good anime library to sell! The more variety, the better for us, the fans. |
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Dalhectar
Posts: 2 |
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Err... no. It's been said before, but look at G4 and TechTV. I'd rather see what ADV could do in a few short months than wait for whatever Comcast will plan to do God knows when. Talk about a US version of Animax is far too speculative. Sony never said they will bring the network to the US. Animax is only one of several options Sony has, and to be honest Comcast probably has bigger plans for future networks than what small audience an anime network would carry to. "One in the hand is worth two in the bush" and the real chance of getting TAN linear is worth more than the off chance of getting Animax at some point in the not too near future. |
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Animefan16
 Posts: 1014 |
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The great thing about Animax is that it has both sub and dubs so everyone gets what they want. But I doubt it would work the same here in the US even if they brought it here. Sony will probably want to compete with networks like CN which has big ratings. They'd have to make the Animax in the US dub-only since subs don't sell here in the US. It may do well with anime fans but good ratings from anime fans isn't enough to beat CN.
Edit: I just checked the Animax-asia website. The format seems to have changed. Most of the stuff shown on Animax are now dubs. The only ones that aren't dubbed are the ones in the midnight block. Examples of the shows that are dubbed are The Astroboy remake, Digimon, Getbackers, and Space Pirate Captain Herlock. |
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the_soultaker
 Posts: 685 |
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ADV insecure? nah, they are just protecting their flank from opportunists who want to get in on the "piece of the action". And how would you know so much about TAN's success or lacktherof? If comca$h can provide a Anime channel as well, fine. but it's ADV who paved the way for them (In North America) should their anime channel get the green light. BTW what does CPM have to offer besides ol skool Anime? that may consist of lame titles like garaga,md geist and Zeguy? LMAO |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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A lot of you guys aren't making much sense to me as labeling ADV as a bad guy, especially with labeling it as a 'monopoly'. Here's something I think some of you need:
Main Entry: mo·nop·o·ly Pronunciation: m&-'nä-p&-lE Function: noun Inflected Form: plural -lies 1 : exclusive control of a particular market that is marked by the power to control prices and exclude competition and that esp. is developed willfully rather than as the result of superior products or skill —see also ANTITRUST Sherman Antitrust Act in the IMPORTANT LAWS section 2 : one that has a monopoly Now, ADV does not own all distrobution rights in North America, and won't unless they merge with ALL distrobution companies out here. ADV doesn't own the only anime magazine out here, and they don't own the only manga line, nor the only anime distro. They are not the only company out there to distribute all these products (Viz anyone?), and they also by no means control the prices, nor do they buy out competition. Now that the little vocabulary lesson is over, let's get down to the acutal ADV hate here. Personally I don't see why some people are so anti-ADV here. They aren't the first company to do this either (Viz anyone?), it's just ADV is more sucessful, and sucess if something that has been known to get some people jealous over. I don't see ADV buying out other companies, and I don't see them releasing things at a fast pace that results in incredibly low quality. (the only instance I can recall of this were the uncut sailor moon boxsets, and they were sloppy so they can release them before their license was up, which was an extremly short amount of time) Most likely none of you who think these things about ADV weren't a fan of anime when ADV was a small company that had no more than 30 or so titles. ADV was started by anime fans, and is ran buy anime fans. *gasp* Yes, shock. I just said ADV is indeed something for fans. You guys don't think ADV is for the fans, and I have disagree. Sure they're still a big company, but those fans that started it are still at the core. You guys also say ADV claims to much credit for today's industry. Well I'm sorry to inform you, but it is highly likely that they are to thank for the booming industry that's out today. Years back the only anime I saw on rental shelfs in the animation section was a rouge Akira, a Ghost in the Shell, and a number of ADV titles. ADV was easier for businesses to get to, and in most cases was cheaper than other companies releasing anime, such as Viz. Also, I thank everyday for a couple years ago when ADV released all of Nadesico in one boxset for no more than fifty-eighty bucks *depends on what store you were at*. You call getting a whole series, 26 episodes, under a hundred bucks over priced? Please. And you people complaining about ADV's take on fansubs need to shut up. Fansubs, no matter how much you want them to be legal, are illegal. You have no divine right to seeing anime for free. ADV has business partners in Japan, and if those guys pressure ADV to make sure some of their properties are not being distributed illegally, they have every right to do so. Anyway, I have no idea what this "spanish inquisition" take ADV has on fansubs, but I've never heard of it before, and I've been into fansubs before digisubs were availble. Anyway, it all comes down to one thing: Who is more dedicated to airing anime, and has a wide library to choose from (and not only from their company library, but from other distributors as well)? That answer is ADV. It's not hard to see. You guys need to get your butts out of your heads and think about what exactly you want. ADV has connections to other anime distro companies here, so they also have the rights to air anime from other companies such as Geneon. I don't see them having rights to airing other anime as monopolizing, especially since most of this anime would never be on tv to begin with. I seriously see it as doing good for anime. |
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The Starfall Knight
 Posts: 130 Location: Within the hearts of the people |
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Well, it doesn't really matter to me. The companies can duke it out if they please. But TAN or Animax? I don't really care, just as long as I get some anime goodness from my TV. And if they don't air the most awesome anime titles of all time on there, I won't really care. I mean, it's not like there aren't a billion other channels out there. I doubt any of us are really going to sit there and watch hours upon hours of anime on just one station, know what I mean? So stop worrying about this matter and go out there and enjoy the trees before they're gone. ^_~
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GATSU
Posts: 15306 |
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Juniper: I'm the last person to disagree with you on ADV making bad business decisions, but the fans still paid Comcast for specific programming from ADV, and Comcast has an obligation to fulfill their part of the deal. (And I can empathize with the fans, having personally experienced another fan-favorite company like Raijin go down.)
As for market penetration, it takes time, just like it's taken this long for anime to get its current level of recognition. If you're arguing that the market isn't wide enough to sustain TAN, then how is it a smarter business decision to change to a company whose record with broadcast anime has been spotty at best? I mean I respect Sony for their treatment of live-action and animated Asian films, but they really suck at successfully promoting tv anime. Cyborg 009 and Astroboy got cancelled, and despite re-titling Kenshin to Samurai X, they ended up selling the franchise to ADV and Media Blasters. And all companies are in it for the money, but ADV is actually run by people who were once one of us, and Comcast is run by some suits. What makes you think Comcast "cares" more than ADV, when they're obviously not willing to look at the long-term potential of anime on cable, but they're willing to risk ratings and advertising, just because Sony is willing to pay higher upfront fees? This hardly suggests that Comcast recognizes a market for anime. Rather, it suggests that Comcast thinks that the market for anime will accept any type of content, and will be consistently lucrative with any type of content, when it's fairly obvious that only a few titles can achieve mainstream success, and the rest require effective PR to find a niche. ginzu: Actually, Geneon and Media Blasters have gotten the rights to a number of fan favorites over the years. It's just that ADV usually looks for titles which have a lot of hype and (let's face it)fanservice. ADV's competitors, OTOH, usually(with the exception of the minor-leaguers like Animeigo and Super Techno Arts) just look for generic titles, based on popular trends in fandom. And outside of Speed Racer and Robotech, CN didn't broadcast much anime until 2000, when Bandai finally came out of its catalog-only shell. Even then, the titles on CN are quite limited, even if you count Adult Swim. |
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Jkid
 Posts: 197 Location: Capitol Heights ,MD |
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In my own opinion, the reason why ADV is worried since Comcast is currently has a monopoly on cable services in most areas. When you take that in account, they can prevent any upcomming network to compete with their own. So the problem is not Comcast deal is Comcast preventing networks from competing with theirs with the same genre.
I'll still support ADV, at the same time not allow Comcast to prevent competition between Animax and TAN by preventing TAN to have their channel along side Comcast's service. |
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Juniper
Posts: 51 |
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The amount of money that TAN brings in is released in press releases. The amount of money that TAN cost to launch was in the Forbes article about Ledford. I'm not sure why you're assuming that a Comcast anime channel would only have CPM titles. If we can't know for certain that Comcast would get Animax, we don't know that whatever anime channel it would have would be CPM only. That was only something brought up by someone who had a very regional option available to them. ADV may have had the "balls" to invest in a network, but with the prospect of losing money, they're squirming in their wet knickers. This call out to anime fans is pitiful.
You said it. Small audience. What reason does Comcast even have to keep TAN around, if it's catering only to a small audience? They're looking at this from a business perspective, and from a business perspective, it's not making them money. The overwhelming majority of anime fans do NOT get TAN. I can wait around as long as I want, but I'm still not going to get TAN in my area. Why? There's simply no demand. Having a few anime fans whining at their doors won't make them deliver it any time sooner. I have no reason to support TAN right now. And at the same time, I have no reason to either support, or not support, Comcast. If they want to launch their own anime channel, that's their perogative. Since it *isn't even out yet*, there's no point in speculating that it may be bad. If they don't want to launch an anime channel at all, same perogative. Anime fans only make up a very small portion of the television viewers in America, and only in big cities do you even have enough fans to make a network remotely viable. |
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Av4rice
Posts: 5 |
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You shouldn't capitalize "jeopardy" unless you're talking about the game show. I had to pause for a moment to figure out why you capitalized it
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Juniper
Posts: 51 |
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Gainax was started by fans, but they still release all sorts of Eva stuff every year to make money. Just because a company is started by fans doesn't mean that they don't make business decisions for money. If that's the way you think, you're in a for a real shock when you leave college.
That's one of the most erroneous statements one could make. Companies like Streamline and AnimEigo, one could argue played a huge role in today's (American) anime industry. Some of the biggest distributors out there (Geneon, Bandai) are merely branches of a Japanese parent company. I can assure you that the Japanese know how to market anime. ADV came along at an opportune time and made some wise business choices that allowed them to be as they are now. But under no circumstances can anyone ever say that ADV is to thank for the American anime industry. That's just ignorance.
You're citing one case in a few. I remember buying Eva on subbed VHS for 2 episodes a tape for over $30. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. I'm not saying that I dislike ADV. I, in fact, have nothing against ADV. But to blindly root for the underdog when there are no concrete facts of what's going to happen is just falling prey to their PR department scrambling to save their ass. As I've said before, most anime fans don't get TAN anyway. This matters a lot less in the grand scheme of things than you think.
By the way, in case you didn't know, large shadowy corporations don't just pop up in the middle of the night to oppress people. Every large shadowy corporation started out as a small company. Believe it or not, Comcast is run by people who were once "one of us," too. Saying that they should care about anime, when most of their patrons who subscribe to Comcast don't give a damn, is selfish. |
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akutabi
Posts: 2 |
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I don't see the big problem here. Comcast wants to start a new channel that competes with the Anime Network, and the Anime Network thinks that they'll get dropped because of this? I doubt this is the case. I mean, Comcast started a channel called "Comcast SportsNet" which is similar to ESPN, yet they still have ESPN--in fact since starting "Comcast SportsNet" more ESPN's have shown up, like ESPNews, ESPN HD, and 6 ESPN pay-per-view channels.
Comcast cable is essentially a content provider, the more content they provide the more customers they can attract. Why would they cut a channel for any other reason than it not being watched? Actually, I hope Comcast gets serious about creating this network. With the resources that they have they should be able to put out a fairly descent network. Also, DarkCntry, not that is makes any difference, but Comcast does own Select On Demand. Additionally, I live in the Philadelphia area, which was the original test-market area for the Anime Network (we get most new--at least to Comcast--channels first in this area, I assume since the Comcast execs live here), and when they started out they put on something like 6 new shows/episodes every 2-4 weeks (basically at random intervals). They didn't get to the point that they are at now until about 9 months after they started out. |
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Jimmy Crackers
 Posts: 42 |
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I'm late in this discussion, but i just want to say that it would be really, really nice if TAN decided to expand their service over to satellite, especially DirecTV, which I have right now. But, until they do, I could care less what is going on over there. I mean, why should I?
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