Forum - View topicNEWS: Uncertain State of the Anime Industry Profiled
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Kireek
Posts: 274 |
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[Don't be an ass. ~Cloe]
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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OMG - this this this!! It's SO frustrating to me that all the Karin/Chibi Vampire forums / communities online seem to be DEAD despite the fact that there are STILL TWO VOLUMES TO BE RELEASED IN ENGLISH! Scanlations are also harmful 
And these forums were dead long before the anime was finished being released. People just don't have patience. I also think a lot of this "anime fans get to watch anime for free" crap comes from many anime fans being teenagers who don't see the cable bills that mommy and daddy get :/ |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Unit, you know I respect your position, but you've contradicted yourself here. First, you say that the majority of downloaders are "broke", meaning they can't afford to buy DVDs. Then you say those "broke kids" are having a significant impact on the R1 industry. How can they have an impact if they aren't able to buy DVDs anyway? The "Interview With The President" linked in a post above provides a good comparison with the article referenced by ANN, which is still in the end a PR/message piece written for commercial media. The guy sitting in the chair running a studio for 20 years acknowledges the benefit to the industry of widespread fansubs--free advertising, as opposed to the "paid advertising" of airing a show on Japanese TV. The audience for anime would be significantly smaller worldwide, paying or not, without fansubs. The bubble corresponds almost directly with the appearance and proliferation of digital fansubs. If you deleted all fansubs past, present and future, the industry would immediately and drastically shrink under the current business model. I estimate my own purchases would fall by at least 80%, since my purchases skyrocketed after discovering fansubs. Of course it's not legal. But you know, there was a time when books were pirated as well, because the publishing industry wasn't serving its market. They had a model (few copies at high prices), and only changed when forced by the market--an unfortunate behavior pattern of human nature repeated endlessly. Again, not legal, but the activity of pirating led to more people reading and demanding more books. I've mentioned before on this forum that software became a mega-industry sooner by the same process. Windows was put "on every desktop" by pirates, not Microsoft (most of those "pirates" being poor, average citizens getting copies from their friends). When MS finally decided to focus on piracy and develop workable technology, now having billions to do so, they then took advantage of all those copies already in place and got paid for them. The solution isn't to stop everyone from downloading anime. It's too expensive to do and will only shrink the fanbase, and thus the potential revenue opportunities. The industry is working toward the right solution, which is offering licensed anime in enough forms of packaging to gain revenue from as many segments of the audience as possible. Can't afford single DVDs? Then pay us $40.00 for a season thinpak. Can't afford DVDs at all? Then pay us $2.00 per episode to download them. Can't afford $2.00 per episode? Then give us $6.00 a month and watch anime streams. Can't afford $6.00 a month? Then watch the anime for free with advertising in it. If you apply that tiered solution, and promote it strongly and broadly, you will convert some of those fansub-only viewers into paying customers in one of those segments. It takes time to change human habits, but it will work. A "freeloader" has no leg to stand on, period. As one, and then another, of their friends get the message and start to use legal channels, peer pressure starts to work its magic. Little by little, the new model takes hold and revenues which have slumped begin to rise again. You just have to continually and effectively deliver the advertising message, which is not, BTW, calling them criminals and deadbeats to their face. All fansub freeloaders aren't "bad". Most have had no option, not having money, and the peer pressure has worked in the wrong direction. It is the industry's responsibility now to get over the idea of returning to the "good old days" and turn that peer pressure around into profit. Maybe they will even generate enough funds someday to apply effective legal remedies to fansubbers and freeloaders. But for now, they need to focus on how to monetize the "business" that is already there.
LOL. Actually, I was expecting far worse when I clicked on the thread link. I believe we've grown... 
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SongstressCela
 Posts: 615 Location: Pennsylvania |
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You say that, but I have to wonder how likely it is across the board. I must say that I often buy series that I have not seen before, at least not completely, and it is actually those that I've finished that I am more lax in finally purchasing. This doesn't count for what I watch in fansubs, mind you, but when it comes to things on US TV... While I absolutely love TTGL and Code Geass, I've been slow in picking up the releases for both because I've seen it all already. I'm definitely buying them, but in general they're not priorities. I wouldn't be surprised if many people who watched fansubs blind-bought series they didn't manage to see either. I mean, think about it. You don't only buy a video game if you happened to get a demo for it, you buy it because it's a genre you like, a studio you like, w/e. The same goes for anime. People don't need to feast on fansubs just to continue in their hobby. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Well my reasoning for being against fansubs is pretty clear, anime doesn't need more advocates, it needs investors people wiling to buy. If your someone who puts nothing back into the system that creates the entertainment form that you say your a fan of, then your not helping, you are not a "fan" that they want. I personally believe that is why one of my favorite shows is failing here, Case Closed, because not enough people are buying it, yet it has a lot of fans? If a series isn't selling why should a company like Funimation be motivated to release quickly or at all? From a business perspective how can they sell you something if you have already fulfilled your need for it?
Sure we can talk about what the industry needs to do, and in fact they have started with streams and downloads, releasing series on the Itunes and Xbox Live. But as fans we can do something to, stop doing what we know is hurting the industry and be an investor of it. |
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Risami
Posts: 20 |
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i think that they need to do something about the prices they put way to much anime out in japan at least i'm sure all those titles.
like here in the united states i shop at rightstuf for my anime well when i see whats coming there is all this list thats nearly 300 bucks more then i can aford every month. i could only aford at least near 150 bucks. I'm sure japanese dvds are expensive there 3 episodes per dvd for who knows how much. don't get me wrong but i do like fansubs but i will buy the anime if it comes out dvd i think the problem in japan for all we know people could be recording it on vhs or using dvd recover to record there shows at least thats what i'm thinking i'm sure most of us record our favorite shows as well. |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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My question is why the need to see everything? Surely a person/fan knows what they like in their entertainment, a preference to certain genres, themes and archetypes. Surely all anime do not have every element that you(in general) like, so for example I don't like harem comedies so if Japan comes out with a new harem comedy, I'm not going to watch it just because it's anime. I would wait and hear about it, read if it might have themes that could appeal to me, and if it doesn't, I move on.
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Risami
Posts: 20 |
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yes lordredhand you have a point.
I'm mostly into drama/romance magical girl maybe some action/adventure like elemental gelade/fate/stay night i see more of those coming out  so hard to get.
but with many taste we have mechas/horrors/comedy/romance it will be hard for people to get into a certian anime |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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However, the problem now is that fansubbers have become in the minds of many fans the primary source of anime. Having at one point been a downloader, I've seen how some sites and fan groups operate. Some give a clear "go buy it, it's been licensed" attitude. Others say things like "this has been licensed by greedy company whatever, you know what to do" and indicate that there is some off-site place to get their fansubs. There are too many fans who rely completely on the fansubbers for anime news as well, to the point that some weren't even aware of big shows like Naruto being licensed until their particular site was hit with enough C&D actions to finally get them close shop! I'm talking about "fans" not knowing a show was licensed YEARS ago. Also, in terms of problems with the industry, yes fansubbing is far from the only problem and perhaps it's not even the biggest problem. However, it is the ONLY problem fans can do anything about. As far as I know, we can't magically raise the price of advertising and sponsorship, come up with the next giant seller or build a machine that magically makes anime ultra cheap to produce. At the very least, we haven't done those things yet. The key thing fans can do is provide some sort of financial support to the industry through some means. Now I for one think that the Japanese either need to provide a sub for various languages and regions themselves or allow a single company the right to sub globally (not counting Japan, where they should be automatically putting up their own shows on streaming and subscription.) The major problem is: If fans don't support the legal efforts then they will never be able to use the new distribution methods to replace the old ones. If money doesn't come in, the companies will eventually fold up and die. Also, lets face it, family-friendly anime isn't what most of us want to buy either. So, if we as fans want something other than Ghibli movies and Sazae-san, perhaps now would be a good idea to go subscribe to a legal stream or buy a legal download. The only people who can show the Japanese that legal streams and downloads are a good idea are the fans. We have to go and use the legal methods, even if it means waiting a little while for the anime. Other wise, the anime could simply cease to exist. Fansubbing and illegal distribution is the only problem we can do something about so let's do something about it. |
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Lemoncookies23
Posts: 355 |
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All I want is for anime to be profitable and for me to be able to continue buying DVDs (preferably with the option of dubs!).
It seems like most people in the position and authority to make the necessary changes for anime to be profitable again are sitting on their hands. Stop deciding when to decide and just DO something! Geez, at this rate, the industry will be dead before anyone finally acts.... Parker's idea sounds great: Continue to sell DVDs while streaming ad supported anime for free online. Bam! I still get to collect anime and the leechers are forced into indirectly paying. What if every Japanese studio streamed (directly or indirectly) their new and old inventory online, with multiple language subs? Is that so impossible? To me, this would destroy fansubbing, and thus, the rub. It also doesn't mean DVDs or dubs are nixed. Hell, there should be more money to pay for them, I should think. |
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Kit-Tsukasa
Posts: 930 |
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I think many of you are misinterpreting the article here, let alone forgetting other factors. Either that or I am greatly mistaken myself.
Everyone here seems to think that fansubbing and manga scanlations are the primary causes of this issue. Unfortunately, everyone is forgetting what state the world itself is in at the moment. The world is in a GLOBAL RECESSION and on the verge of a global depression. If anyone has forgotten what happened in January 2009, Japan was the FIRST of all countries to officially enter a recession, followed by the US, and then the UK and France. Note that all of which are the large countries that distribute anime. In other words, fansubbing is barely hurting the industries because everyone already has little to no money to spend regardless of what class your family is in. Everyone is being cautious about what they spend their money on right now since one wrong move will cause your whole family's/life savings to turn upside-down. In addition, ever since 2005, which was when anime hit its peak (this was said in an article not too long ago from Japan themselves), 2009 and 2010 are going to be rough years for the anime industries. My speculation is because of due to the lack of creativity and because of the global economic crisis. Many companies are really scraping the bottom with their shows. I mean we have Munto remake, Haruhi-chan/Churuya-chan, FMA remake, Kiddy Girl-and coming out of nowhere, Nanoha movie? With a lot of these remakes it only means either the companies are trying to buy time for something *cough*KyoAni*cough* or are really trying to rake in whatever franchise "was" good. Next thing to note is that all the newspapers are talking about is the TV broadcasters, meaning the ones who have bought the rights to air these on their networks. One could argue that piracy is an issue here, but also could be argued the other way. Yes, people record the raws and then have others download it, especially those who missed the episodes. The other side of the argument is, what about those who have to work/study overtime just to support the family? This decreases viewer ratings for certain shows whether it's late night show or a daytime show it doesn't matter. In turn, lower viewer rating means less revenue generated since TV networks need to produce ratings weekly I believe. As a result, if no one is watching this stuff, the TV networks will not want to buy as many rights as they could like they use to back during the anime boom and when economic times were good. So before you guys continue bashing fansubbers and manga scanlators, I suggest some of you think outside of the box. I see that most people here have the mentality of when it comes to profit losses and hard times for these anime industries, it blames piracy. Unfortunately that's not always the case, especially when it comes down to Japan being hurt the most. Now if it was a US company say Funimation, then yes fansubbers are incorporated into the blame along with the economic hard times and I can hardly disagree with that. Also for those of you blaming MAL, I do not see a reason either since that would also apply to AniDB and the rest. ANN isn't perfect you know and neither is any other anime site out there. Every site has a bias as well as other problems. |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I'm not denying that there are other issues, however I'm focusing on the issue that the fans can do something about. It be a simple thing to help the industry if people would not romanticize fansubs as something noble, simply put as an anime fan I'm asking others to please help the industry and stop, because it's the one thing they can do as fans to help even if they don't have money to actually purchase anime DVDs, as at least then your not cutting into potential profits.
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megumi's guy
Posts: 67 Location: Murfreesboro, Tennessee |
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We always hear that the evil fansubers are going to destroy the anime industry, but I never hear any of the US anime companies going after the R1 DVD rippers. There are certainly are a lot of them out there.
I have 2,000 - 3,000 anime DVDs, laserdiscs, and vcr tapes and that barely scratches the surface of what is available. Some of the currently (or previous) anime releases simply aren't worth spending $100 - $200 on. Now days I usually buy used DVDs and laserdiscs which are usually considerably cheaper. |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Well, I stifled my fascist rant, seeing as how this thread is so civil. I will just say, why are you concerned at all about other's viewing habits? Why would you even think to critique someone else wanting to view "everything" instead of staying within genre bounds? What business is it of yours what I want to watch? Personally, a favorite genre means I will more likely watch almost all those types of shows that come out and will purchase a lot of them. Outside my usual preferences, I still want to watch and own anything that is high quality, regardless of genre. If I hadn't been willing to watch Higurashi (When They Cry), I would have missed one of the top 3 shows on my list from the past couple of years. I have every genre on my DVD shelves, in both live action and animation, some that I certainly would not have purchased if I had to rely on opinions of others or previews, or genre. I've learned the hard way (expensively) that it's a very unreliable way for me to choose entertainment, perhaps because of my eclectic tastes. Bottom line is if you only stay in your own genre, you miss a lot of quality entertainment, even art. And saying that someone should just stay in their own genre is just silly. |
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Lemoncookies23
Posts: 355 |
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Nonsense. My family is doing terribly financially (I won't go any further), but I still got a part time job which gives me more than enough money to spend on anime, lots of anime (and manga), considering the pretty huge collection I've amassed for myself in only about a year. If you really want something, you will find a way to pay for it. That's just basic human nature.
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