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The Spring 2009 Anime Preview Guide

Because I can guarantee that those Go Nagai cartoons were broadcasted in the Americas, uncut in Mexico, Central, South America, the Spanish Caribbean (probably with the exception of Cuba) for sure with Mazinger Z, Great Mazinger, Groizer X and the Force Five style "Festival de los Robots" syndicated deal with "El Gladiador" (Daiku Maryu Gaiking), "El Vengador" (Kotetsu Jeeg) and not a Go Nagai show, but a super robot show none the less "Super Magnetron" (Magno Robo Gakeen).

Just like with Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, the fact that the same characters existed in previous works with similar situations doesn't actually have any bearing on this new one. I don't consider this an issue of differing opinion. That's just straight-up true and to suggest otherwise is incorrect.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was a big hit (fan-wise, anyway) not too long ago, and many who liked that one should also be able to equally enjoy the various Go Nagai remakes (Mazinkaizer, the assorted new Getter Robo titles, Jeeg, etc). But US fan support for the new Go Nagai stuff isn't even a quarter of the popularity of TTGL, and it's not because Gurren Lagann is just that much better or different in tone, characterization, or what have you. There are a few reasons, but a big one is that people think the new Go Nagai series are solely for the nostalgia-seeking set at the expense of everyone else.

But al least R1 had at one time or another access to the Holy Trinity of Real Robot Anime (MS Gundam, SDF Macross and AT VOTOMS) along other representative shows of the age (Zeta Gundam, GC Mospeada, SDC Orguss, SDC Southern Cross).

For Super Robots the earliest complete example will be 1981's Beast King GoLion, a show that most will agree represents the twilight of the Super Robot genre. R1 has not seen the greatness that is the original Mazin Saga (Mazinger Z, Great Mazinger, Ufo Robo Grendizer), Getter Robo and Getter Robo G, Darku Maryu Gaiking, Kotetsu Jeeg, Magno Robo Gakeen, Tadao Nagahama's Robot Romance Trilogy (Chodenji Robo Combattler V, Chodenji Machine Voltes V, Tosho Daimos), Yusha Raideen, Daitarn 3, Xabungle, God Mars, God Sigma or the transitional works that heralded the change from the Super Robot Age to the Real Robot age (Invincible Superman Zambot 3, Space Warrior Baldios, Space RunAway Ideon), I't's really sad that basically an era that is so fondly remembered across the World, in the US is just basically a footnote on a book.

Just like with Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, the fact that the same characters existed in previous works with similar situations doesn't actually have any bearing on this new one. I don't consider this an issue of differing opinion. That's just straight-up true and to suggest otherwise is incorrect.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was a big hit (fan-wise, anyway) not too long ago, and many who liked that one should also be able to equally enjoy the various Go Nagai remakes (Mazinkaizer, the assorted new Getter Robo titles, Jeeg, etc). But US fan support for the new Go Nagai stuff isn't even a quarter of the popularity of TTGL, and it's not because Gurren Lagann is just that much better or different in tone, characterization, or what have you. There are a few reasons, but a big one is that people think the new Go Nagai series are solely for the nostalgia-seeking set at the expense of everyone else. And the reason they think that is because a lot of people on prominent websites, including this one, keep saying that.

While I had to listen to the AWO review before doing so (giving credit where it is due), I watched the Giant Robo OVA without any previous exposure to the characters involved and had only ever seen Mazinkaiser before Shin Mazinger. You could say I've become a fan of the Super Robot genre, but only relatively recently.

If it doesn't have "any bearing," then how come most of the people advocating this series are familiar with the previous works, and few that aren't are speaking in its favor? Besides, comparing it to FMA: Brotherhood isn't accurate since FMA at least partly laid a foundation in its first episode. All Mazinger's first ep does is show you how things are going to turn out.

It's not just that. I've seen several non-mecha Go Nagai works - enough to be familiar with his overall style and talent beyond just giant robot series, anyway. My general impression of him is akin to what many seem to think of director Michael Bay: strong on sensationalism and flashiness, not so respected when it comes to the actual writing.

Now, would Mazinger Z have gotten off to a rockin' start even if it had explained itself better at the outset? Probably only marginally so, because Giant Robot series are more nostalgia pieces these days than a major genre.

Red Leader
That's true... But I still haven't seen VOTOMS... ^^;;; Still, there's more to be seen!

Red Leader

Quote:

AWO ust like with Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, the fact that the same characters existed in previous works with similar situations doesn't actually have any bearing on this new one. I don't consider this an issue of differing opinion. That's just straight-up true and to suggest otherwise is incorrect. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was a big hit (fan-wise, anyway) not too long ago, and many who liked that one should also be able to equally enjoy the various Go Nagai remakes (Mazinkaizer, the assorted new Getter Robo titles, Jeeg, etc). But US fan support for the new Go Nagai stuff isn't even a quarter of the popularity of TTGL, and it's not because Gurren Lagann is just that much better or different in tone, characterization, or what have you. There are a few reasons, but a big one is that people think the new Go Nagai series are solely for the nostalgia-seeking set at the expense of everyone else. And the reason they think that is because a lot of people on prominent websites, including this one, keep saying that.

THANK YOU!! This is precisely what I've been trying to get at but it doesn't seem like I'm getting through...

Key
As for not "getting" this one being sad: hey, I find it sad that so many people find the original Bubblegum Crisis to be superior to the 2040 TV series version, but I live with it.

Quote:

Red Leader Quote: AWO ust like with Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, the fact that the same characters existed in previous works with similar situations doesn't actually have any bearing on this new one. I don't consider this an issue of differing opinion. That's just straight-up true and to suggest otherwise is incorrect. Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann was a big hit (fan-wise, anyway) not too long ago, and many who liked that one should also be able to equally enjoy the various Go Nagai remakes (Mazinkaizer, the assorted new Getter Robo titles, Jeeg, etc). But US fan support for the new Go Nagai stuff isn't even a quarter of the popularity of TTGL, and it's not because Gurren Lagann is just that much better or different in tone, characterization, or what have you. There are a few reasons, but a big one is that people think the new Go Nagai series are solely for the nostalgia-seeking set at the expense of everyone else. And the reason they think that is because a lot of people on prominent websites, including this one, keep saying that. THANK YOU!! This is precisely what I've been trying to get at but it doesn't seem like I'm getting through...

I do resent that we Super Robot fans and our anime are treated like dusty relics, old coots blinded by nostalgia and any new Traditional Super Robot show is an anacronistic waste of film that could be used to propel more eroge adaptations, harem anime where the main character has the spine of a bendy straw and MOE, but unlike others type of fans, the Super Robot Spirit still burns bright in us, and we won't go down into the Darkness witout a glorious fight, We won't be relegated to the Anime Ghetto. Heck, I blame Evangelion for the Descontruction of the Mecha genre, and IMHO TTGL is an apology for their sins.

Most Modern Anime Fans(TM) have lost the sense of Adventure and just go into searching for their feeling against the backdrop of 2D characters THAT WILL DO NOTHING FOR YOU!!!! except in some demented twisted part of their brains. And treating the name of Go nagai like some crazy talentless old hack instead of being mentioned among the greats like Tezuka, Matsumoto, Miyasaki and Kon.

VOTOMS is an essencial part of a proper mecha diet, you should be able to find if you dig a little (Orig version 16 dvd, 4 box sets, new version 4, 2 dvd sets, one box set)

I thought that these reviews were certainly helpful in that regard and I think that it's sad that people have been getting mad at the reviewers simply because the reviewers happened to give a low rating to a show that they liked.

I appreciate Kalessin's defense and agree with many of his/her points, but both as a moderator and as a reviewer I haven't seen anything out of line here. I just chalk most of this up to starkly contrasting viewpoints and leave it at that.

The only thing that actually bothered me at all in this discussion was the "bias" comment, and RedLeader has already backed down from that. I've been doing this long enough that I probably shouldn't let that kind of accusation bother me, but it does and probably always will because I have far too often seen that used to justify some kind of persecution complex by the speaker, typically in conjunction with a heavily implied insult.

If a series can win over people who normally are ambivalent towards the genre, or especially those who outright dislike the genre, that counts for a lot more. That's why Princess Tutu is such a widely-respected title: because even people who don't normally tolerate magical girl series often love it.

So let's just see what happens with Mazinger Z over time. I've always believed that vastly differing ratings of a title - whether it be a regular movie or an anime series - is a sure indicator that it's a hit-or-miss title. For me, it was a "miss." For some others around here, it clearly wasn't.

RedLeader wrote:

See, that's the problem Shin Mazinger had. One reviewer was into Super Robot and got it just fine. The other two made it sound like it was the most horrible thing ever unless your some sort of super nerd and are already a fan which I think really reflects their own personal bias against the genre, rather than than reviewing the episode. :\

No, I knocked Shin Mazinger Z because it made no sense whatsoever unless you were already familiar with the subject matter. If a series can't fairly be criticized for that, then I'm not sure what you can fairly criticize it for.

Besides, I gave immensely better reviews to Gurren Lagann, Kirameki Project, and the first volume of Godannar that are on public record, and in fact rate the entirety of those first two series as Excellent. Try doing a little research before tossing around claims like someone having a "personal bias against the genre."

As for the first couple of episodes of Toradora! vs. Cross Game and Eden of the East: both of the latter two beat out Toradora for the first episode but have second episodes that, while still quite good on their own merits, are inferior to Toradora's wonderful second episode. (I'd probably give Eden another 4.5 for episode 2 and CG a 4 if we were still doing the Preview Guide, whereas I gave Toradora's second a 5+.) Both of the newcomers have yet to prove that they can maintain their quality over the long haul, but based on two episodes Eden looks like the jewel of the new season. My verdict's still out on CG until I see what exact direction it seems inclined to go.

~~Epic~~ wrote:

I do have to ask you now Key that if you think this season is going to be average do you feel like last season was better? And why?

No, that should not be taken as an indication that last season was better; frankly, I thought that one was pretty average overall, too. (A couple of standouts, but nothing spectacular.)