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babbo
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:15 am
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fighterholic wrote: |
jr0904 wrote: |
Also who cares if it's lolicon or not.We should be happy it'll be here in the US. I'm sure am. |
Me thinks after reading a bunch of these posts regarding the lolicon debate, it almost seems like the word "lolicon" has lost its original meaning. Like the word "gay" lost its original meaning too. |
Or just like anime, manga, otaku, chibi, and any other number of loan words from Japanese to english. It still has a rather negative connotation regardless of which language it's used in though. I honestly don't see anything wrong with that; it's not like it says anything bad about all the people who watch it, just the core demographic that it's targeted at <.<
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fighterholic
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:37 am
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The practice in itself has been in existence since the world began but the terminology only came into existence if I remember correctly thanks to the novel "Lolita." In that story, the main character did have fantasies about his step-daughter or so the story goes, and I think they did sleep with each other blah balh blah. So now it all comes down to this but so far from what I've heard about Strike Witches nobody really "slept" with anybody. Or is it just me?
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babbo
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:48 am
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fighterholic wrote: | The practice in itself has been in existence since the world began but the terminology only came into existence if I remember correctly thanks to the novel "Lolita." In that story, the main character did have fantasies about his step-daughter or so the story goes, and I think they did sleep with each other blah balh blah. So now it all comes down to this but so far from what I've heard about Strike Witches nobody really "slept" with anybody. Or is it just me? |
Actually I'm pretty sure that "lolicon" is Japanese slang for lolita complex. So while the origins are obvious, it can still hold a different connotation.
Isn't that besides the point though? It's still targeted at a demographic that enjoys the sight of scantily clad young girls. The real problem here I'd say is that funi picked up a show like that. Chances are it's not going to sell terribly well in western markets, which in turn could mean that funi will be less willing to take risks on future titles, and more shows like line barrels getting picked up. It may not be amazing, but unlike SW it's got all sorts of burning hearts and mecha action which simply tend to sell well enough on their own.
Last edited by babbo on Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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fighterholic
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:53 am
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babbo wrote: | Isn't that besides the point though? It's still targeted at a demographic that enjoys the sight of scantily clad young girls. The real problem here I'd say is that funi picked up a show like that. Chances are it's not going to sell terribly well in western markets, which in turn could mean that funi will be less willing to take risks on future titles, and more shows like line barrels getting picked up. It may not be amazing, but unlike SW it's got all sorts of burning hearts and mecha action which simply tend to sell well enough on their own. |
I think the real problem would have been if Funi hadn't picked it up. Since they are the dominant company on the market right now, nobody else was probably able to afford the licensing price, let alone release it and then get the flack that Funi will suredly get for releasing this series. But you would be right in saying that if the show doesn't do well, Funi won't be so cocky.
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msgundam2
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 271
Location: Indiana USA
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:35 am
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Way does people think that just because a person likes lolis in anime and manga does not mean they like the real ones. so stop calling people like me a pedo. strike witches is a great anime.
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babbo
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:56 am
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msgundam2 wrote: | Way does people think that just because a person likes lolis in anime and manga does not mean they like the real ones. so stop calling people like me a pedo. strike witches is a great anime. |
I'd suggest you read what people are actually saying. You're not helping your cause with posts like that <.<
@fighterholic: But should they really be taking the risk of picking up shows where they'll take flack? It's one thing to pick a niche title of some type and for it to fail. It's an entirely different thing for them to pick a niche title with something that people find objectionable and for it to fail. Anime has a crappy enough rep as it is, do we really need shows like SW to add on to that and be a financial drag for the industry?
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Charred Knight
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:56 am
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fighterholic wrote: |
babbo wrote: | Isn't that besides the point though? It's still targeted at a demographic that enjoys the sight of scantily clad young girls. The real problem here I'd say is that funi picked up a show like that. Chances are it's not going to sell terribly well in western markets, which in turn could mean that funi will be less willing to take risks on future titles, and more shows like line barrels getting picked up. It may not be amazing, but unlike SW it's got all sorts of burning hearts and mecha action which simply tend to sell well enough on their own. |
I think the real problem would have been if Funi hadn't picked it up. Since they are the dominant company on the market right now, nobody else was probably able to afford the licensing price, let alone release it and then get the flack that Funi will suredly get for releasing this series. But you would be right in saying that if the show doesn't do well, Funi won't be so cocky. |
The Strike Witch liscense was probably incredibly cheap.
Look the average american does not find the cast of Strike Witches sexy, so the main appeal is out.
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Kalessin
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 931
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:24 am
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Charred Knight wrote: |
The Strike Witch liscense was probably incredibly cheap.
Look the average american does not find the cast of Strike Witches sexy, so the main appeal is out. |
Gonzo's best-selling series ever, cheap? I really doubt that. The fact that Funimation has made a distribution deal with Gonzo and the fact that the loli aspect of the series might be viewed as less likely to sell in America may very well have brought the price down, but with Strike Witches being as big as it is, I can't see it as being a cheap license. Certainly, without the distribution deal with Funimation (with whatever that's done to how much Funimation has to pay for Gonzo shows), I'd have fully expected Strike Witches to have been their most expensive license in recent memory simply due to how much of a hit it is in Japan. If they really do expect it to do much worse in the US due to the loli stuff and how they expect Americans to react to it, then that may very well have brought the price down, but with that big a hit, they're not going to want to let it go for cheap if they can avoid it - especially with the financial straights that they've been in.
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babbo
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:48 am
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Kalessin wrote: |
Charred Knight wrote: |
The Strike Witch liscense was probably incredibly cheap.
Look the average american does not find the cast of Strike Witches sexy, so the main appeal is out. |
Gonzo's best-selling series ever, cheap? I really doubt that. The fact that Funimation has made a distribution deal with Gonzo and the fact that the loli aspect of the series might be viewed as less likely to sell in America may very well have brought the price down, but with Strike Witches being as big as it is, I can't see it as being a cheap license. Certainly, without the distribution deal with Funimation (with whatever that's done to how much Funimation has to pay for Gonzo shows), I'd have fully expected Strike Witches to have been their most expensive license in recent memory simply due to how much of a hit it is in Japan. If they really do expect it to do much worse in the US due to the loli stuff and how they expect Americans to react to it, then that may very well have brought the price down, but with that big a hit, they're not going to want to let it go for cheap if they can avoid it - especially with the financial straights that they've been in. |
Best selling in Japan does not equal best selling in America. Gonzo has been around long enough to know that, hell out of any of the studios out there I think Gonzo should considering how much their shows typically try to cater to western tastes (at least compared to other studios). I doubt they'd want to ask too much and not get a deal at all. Especially when there was a widely held opinion in the community that Funi wouldn't license it.
Toei thought the same way with Kanon ( that success in Japan could translate into success in America that is) apparently, and look where that got them. Even with 2006 released 2002 still has yet to have been licensed >.>
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Kalessin
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 931
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:19 am
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babbo wrote: |
Kalessin wrote: |
Charred Knight wrote: |
The Strike Witch liscense was probably incredibly cheap.
Look the average american does not find the cast of Strike Witches sexy, so the main appeal is out. |
Gonzo's best-selling series ever, cheap? I really doubt that. The fact that Funimation has made a distribution deal with Gonzo and the fact that the loli aspect of the series might be viewed as less likely to sell in America may very well have brought the price down, but with Strike Witches being as big as it is, I can't see it as being a cheap license. Certainly, without the distribution deal with Funimation (with whatever that's done to how much Funimation has to pay for Gonzo shows), I'd have fully expected Strike Witches to have been their most expensive license in recent memory simply due to how much of a hit it is in Japan. If they really do expect it to do much worse in the US due to the loli stuff and how they expect Americans to react to it, then that may very well have brought the price down, but with that big a hit, they're not going to want to let it go for cheap if they can avoid it - especially with the financial straights that they've been in. |
Best selling in Japan does not equal best selling in America. Gonzo has been around long enough to know that, hell out of any of the studios out there I think Gonzo should considering how much their shows typically try to cater to western tastes (at least compared to other studios). I doubt they'd want to ask too much and not get a deal at all. Especially when there was a widely held opinion in the community that Funi wouldn't license it.
Toei thought the same way with Kanon ( that success in Japan could translate into success in America that is) apparently, and look where that got them. Even with 2006 released 2002 still has yet to have been licensed >.> |
Well, I certainly won't argue that Gonzo would refuse to lower the price due to an expectation that it would sell worse in the US than Japan. As you say, selling well in Japan do not necessarily equate to selling well in the US. Still, I wouldn't expect them to let it go cheaply. Cheaper perhaps than if it was expected to do as well in the US as it did in Japan, but not cheap. I'd still expect them to try and get more for it than for their other recent shows - especially when so many people seem to think that a number of them are horrible.
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fighterholic
Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:10 am
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babbo wrote: | @fighterholic: But should they really be taking the risk of picking up shows where they'll take flack? It's one thing to pick a niche title of some type and for it to fail. It's an entirely different thing for them to pick a niche title with something that people find objectionable and for it to fail. Anime has a crappy enough rep as it is, do we really need shows like SW to add on to that and be a financial drag for the industry? |
Like KnJ, Strike Witches is one of those shows in my mind that just reflects certain preferences of certain types of people over in Japan. However if it is accepted in Japan, then it is accepted, and that would have to do with societal views of that kind of genre or show. Us over here we're the country that can sue over anything, and pretty much get offended over everything too, so it doesn't surprise me now how there's people ranting over how it shouldn't come. Hell, if it doesn't do so well I bet you the hardcore people would blame Zac again for the crisis.
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Ranma824
Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:49 pm
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zanarkand princess wrote: | And how is Funimation "supporting" ANN anyway? By allowing ANN to put news stories about series they licenses up? |
FUNimation is not keeping ANN's "lights on" so to speak; but FUNi has to be one of ANN's biggest advertising clients. "Let us splash DBZ all over your main page, and here's $$$$$ to do it".
So... if you do something that makes the client's customers "unhappy" (especially regarding a brand new product you have acquired), then the client is going to be unhappy with you.
Whether or not this had anything to do with the article being changed, we'll probably never know.
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Symmetrical_Magician
Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 274
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:25 pm
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Well, let me just ask this. Regardless of whether the show is or is not lolicon, is it good? I really do like FUNimation, and if this is a decent show, I may buy it and enjoy it, and support the company in the process.
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zanarkand princess
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 1484
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:01 pm
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Average story IMO. People are calling it great because they lowered their expectations for this sort of thing, well that's the only way I could see anyone calling it great anyway.
@Fighterholic
Yes the loli otaku in Japan accept it but would the general public? I'm not sure it has too much to do with societal views. It's a fetish. Here in America all sorts of weird porn that most of the general public doesn't agree with is made yet it still exists and I wouldn't call that a reflection of our societal views.
@Babbo I agree with you. Gonzo should know that this isn't going to be a best seller or even a moderate seller in America, but often times Japanese compaines ignore that. I don't think Funimation spent more then they should have on it though, I'm sure their new partnership brought the price downs some. I'm sure it didn't cost as much as Eva 1.0
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Egan Loo
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1319
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Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:11 pm
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Ranma824 wrote: | FUNimation is not keeping ANN's "lights on" so to speak; but FUNi has to be one of ANN's biggest advertising clients. "Let us splash DBZ all over your main page, and here's $$$$$ to do it".
So... if you do something that makes the client's customers "unhappy" (especially regarding a brand new product you have acquired), then the client is going to be unhappy with you.
Whether or not this had anything to do with the article being changed, we'll probably never know. |
Funimation did not ask for the article to be changed. It was simply changed for clarity — if only because the Japanese usage of the term includes both preteens and early teens, whereas some English speakers' use of the term is limited to preteens. The Japanese usage of the term includes both legal and illicit portrayals, whereas some English speakers' use of the term is limited to illicit portrayals.
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