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Anymouse wrote:

And how can people say the market can't support this? As American fandom gradually converges on Japanese fandom (especially as parts of the American middle class converge on the Japanese "100 million middle class") we will find the markets get more and more similar. Moe sells in the U.S. today far better than it did 10 years ago, and the market may converge yet more.

That's not an encouraging example.

If the markets converge that way, then when they do, I shall depart and take care to fart loudly on the way out.

Surrender Artist wrote:

Anymouse wrote:

And how can people say the market can't support this? As American fandom gradually converges on Japanese fandom (especially as parts of the American middle class converge on the Japanese "100 million middle class") we will find the markets get more and more similar. Moe sells in the U.S. today far better than it did 10 years ago, and the market may converge yet more.

That's not an encouraging example.

If the markets converge that way, then when they do, I shall depart and take care to fart loudly on the way out.

N. America can't afford it anyways, where the otaku market is even a lot less than in Japan. If the only anime left that sell in N. America are otaku material like Japan, there won't be much of an industry left.

enurtsol wrote:

Myaow wrote:

I wish I were one of those "sakuga" guys who can tell the key animator of a scene just by looking at it, but my eyes aren't quite there yet. (I'm working on it! I've been able to pick out Yoshihiko Umakoshi a couple of times!) It'd be awesome if Ettinger could come onto the show and tell us his secrets!

Maybe he took a few animation courses or hang around animators circles? Can learn a lot even just by doing plain as that.

Nope. He was able to meet animation professionals and visit a studio years after his blog. Having met him in person, he is a professional translator by trade.

Just to answer Myaow's inquiry, here are the links:

animenewsnetwork.com/chicks-on-anime/2008-11-04

http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/index.php/what_makes_animation_interesting

Since we're on the subject of "Sakuga", I was able to see Evangelion 1.0 and 2.0 key animation drawings from Eva Pop museum at J-Pop Festival in San Francisco two days ago. Although the drawings are not labeled with animator names, I recognized drawings by Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, Takeshi Honda, Hidenori Matsubara, and others.

I'm grateful to folks of J-Pop Festival who setup the museum display of those beautiful drawings. People outside of Japan, especially the west, don't have opportunity to see something like this.

Anymouse wrote:

And how can people say the market can't support this? As American fandom gradually converges on Japanese fandom (especially as parts of the American middle class converge on the Japanese "100 million middle class") we will find the markets get more and more similar. Moe sells in the U.S. today far better than it did 10 years ago, and the market may converge yet more.

Because the market didn't support it when it was attempted. What makes you think fans in North America are willing to spend $200 for 11-13 episodes?

Eh, I don't mind a critic's podcast since they still have a unique take on things, and I'd rather not hunt around again for another anime podcast to listen to.

At this point someone should just [expletive] do SOME sort of research into what the flying fudge is up with reverse importation. Because this thing has always been just freaking sitting here but no one has ANY kind of metrics on it. But if we can see sale numbers through Amazon now, there has to be a way to survey buyers or some other shit to say that this IS or IS NOT a serious issue. Unless someone did and they say it's not so the companies are just hiding this result to maintain their arguing point that it is.

Or they need to just change their pricing already. It's the 21st freaking century, get with the times.

There's are key features each studio seems to use, obvious ones being facial structures and line work, as well as motions and quality. But for studios that pick up more projects I've gotten them mixed up. Deen and Beeline have the same level of QUALITY that make them hard to tell apart.

farix wrote:

Because the market didn't support it when it was attempted. What makes you think fans in North America are willing to spend $200 for 11-13 episodes?

And not just your Madokas, LE DRRRs, and Fate/Zeros, but also your Freezings, Bunny Drops, Aria the Scarlet Ammos, No. 6s, Indexs, Panty and Stockings, Shangri Las, and so on. $200+ for every single one of them? Bye bye FUNimation and Sentai, too few are going to support the entire licensing industry on prices like that. Not in North America. I'm sure you could go back to anime being an import-only luxury, but that kills the fandom here. It goes against trying to get anime on TV so that new fans can also become anime consumers, they'll see the prices and say "Fudge that, I'm either downloading/streaming or not bothering at all." It that doesn't make them TROO PHANS, then so be it.

I doubt 'potential new fans' are blind-buying random DVDs/BDs, especially in this age where everyone knows how to download something if they want it. The bulk of the fandom who are the ones watching Crunchyroll/fansubs aren't going to be affected. Then those people can buy the LEs if they want it. Simple enough

Sceleris wrote:

For now I've got this "reading assignment" from ANNCast, so I'm hopefully off to a good start. Wink

Yes, Film Theory and Criticism is expensive as Zac said, but you can deflect a lot of that cost by getting an older edition. I was able to get a good copy of the 6th edition off Amazon marketplace for about $20 a few years ago (it's probably cheaper now). My personal recommendation for someone new to film criticism would be Bordwell and Thompson's Film Art: An Introduction (edit: what Bonham said). It's not as encyclopaedic, but it's also not as dry a read. Again, an older edition is much, much cheaper. Some other good alternatives to general film/art criticism would be Understanding Movies and Oxford Guide to Film Studies. The latter is a little pricy, however.

krelyan wrote:

Yes, Film Theory and Criticism is expensive as Zac said, but you can deflect a lot of that cost by getting an older edition. I was able to get a good copy of the 6th edition off Amazon marketplace for about $20 a few years ago (it's probably cheaper now). My personal recommendation for someone new to film criticism would be Bordwell and Thompson's Film Art: An Introduction (edit: what Bonham said). It's not as encyclopaedic, but it's also not as dry a read. Again, an older edition is much, much cheaper. Some other good alternatives to general film/art criticism would be Understanding Movies and Oxford Guide to Film Studies. The latter is a little pricy, however.

I can get Film Theory and Criticism for $70 with shipping, that sounds entirely reasonable for 926 pages. Also, I like the new book smell. But maybe that can wait until I've read Film Art, which I already own without having opened it more than a few times. Embarassed

I'm also considering a book called The Art of Watching Films that seems pedagogical enough, with clear exercises like "Watch [given sequences from On the Waterfront and All That Jazz]. Each sequence takes us into the mind and feelings of the characters through clever uses of sound. Describe in detail how each sequence accomplishes its goal, and explain how the two methods differ." This seems to me like a good way of getting into the right mindset, and into the habit of looking for certain things.

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll have to look up those two as well. At least one of all these books should do the trick. Or perhaps all, if there isn't a big overlap in content...!

Surrender Artist wrote:

Anymouse wrote:

And how can people say the market can't support this? As American fandom gradually converges on Japanese fandom (especially as parts of the American middle class converge on the Japanese "100 million middle class") we will find the markets get more and more similar. Moe sells in the U.S. today far better than it did 10 years ago, and the market may converge yet more.

That's not an encouraging example.

If the markets converge that way, then when they do, I shall depart and take care to fart loudly on the way out.

I agree that is not an encouraging example, but it is a possibility. And the bright side is this would mean the good stuff like Only Yesterday, Perfect Blue, or Honneamise will be more potentially profitable. And family films will still be marketed at a family friendly price.

TitanXL wrote:

I doubt 'potential new fans' are blind-buying random DVDs/BDs, especially in this age where everyone knows how to download something if they want it. The bulk of the fandom who are the ones watching Crunchyroll/fansubs aren't going to be affected. Then those people can buy the LEs if they want it. Simple enough

I agree with you here.

Anymouse wrote:

Surrender Artist wrote:

Anymouse wrote:

And how can people say the market can't support this? As American fandom gradually converges on Japanese fandom (especially as parts of the American middle class converge on the Japanese "100 million middle class") we will find the markets get more and more similar. Moe sells in the U.S. today far better than it did 10 years ago, and the market may converge yet more.

That's not an encouraging example.

If the markets converge that way, then when they do, I shall depart and take care to fart loudly on the way out.

I agree that is not an encouraging example, but it is a possibility. And the bright side is this would mean the good stuff like Only Yesterday, Perfect Blue, or Honneamise will be more potentially profitable. And family films will still be marketed at a family friendly price.

Those three would probably not make any money if they were price near Japanese prices. The simple fact is that no one would have bought them rather than just a few. North Americans will not buy anime if the price is well out of proportion with domestic releases.

TitanXL wrote:

I doubt 'potential new fans' are blind-buying random DVDs/BDs, especially in this age where everyone knows how to download something if they want it. The bulk of the fandom who are the ones watching Crunchyroll/fansubs aren't going to be affected. Then those people can buy the LEs if they want it. Simple enough

Only doing expensive limited edition releases will severely shrink the market, perhaps fatally. Funimation, VIZ, Sentai, and etc. make most of their money from media sells. In fact, there has been no evidence that the streaming side has show much profit. If there isn't enough people to buy the anime, then the companies are will either close or look for ways to grow the market.

This kind of shortsightedness is the has affected the tax rate debate. People believe that there is a fixed amount of revenue/income to be taxed, it is only a matter of where you set the tax rates. For them, if someone owns a business that made $2 million last year and was taxed at 30% for $600k, then raising the tax rate to 40% should net $800k in taxes.

What they cannot understand is that the tax rates affect the overall economy. At 40%, that person is not able to pay his overhead and goes out of business grossing only $500K the following year. That is far less than the $800K in taxes he was theoretically suppose to pay for that year. Instead, he ends up paying $200K in taxes, which is only 1/3 of what he paid the previous year.

Anymouse seems to have the same misconception about those who buy anime on DVD or Blu-ray, that there is a fixed amount of buyers and that it is only a matter of what price the companies charge. He/she can't seem to understand that higher price will cause most of the potential buyers to take a pass on the releases and the few that remain will not be able to support the overhead of the companies, much less let the companies make a profit with.

I contend that the number of viewers dedicated enough to pay high prices may be growing. The market may not be ready to support this today, but things may be different tomorrow.

I would also suggest that the actual audience for something like Strike Witches or Vivid Red Operation may in fact be inelastic in respect to price already, if not a few years from now.

Since everyone said their pieces about Americans unwilling to pay high price for anime, so here is a nagging question.

Anime videos here are far cheaper than Japanese counterpart, however has paying audience increased dramatically or remained pretty much the same?

Anymouse wrote:

I agree that is not an encouraging example, but it is a possibility. And the bright side is this would mean the good stuff like Only Yesterday, Perfect Blue, or Honneamise will be more potentially profitable. And family films will still be marketed at a family friendly price.

TitanXL wrote:

I doubt 'potential new fans' are blind-buying random DVDs/BDs, especially in this age where everyone knows how to download something if they want it. The bulk of the fandom who are the ones watching Crunchyroll/fansubs aren't going to be affected. Then those people can buy the LEs if they want it. Simple enough

I agree with you here.

The problem is that this is going to lead to a complete stagnation as anime becomes one giant blob of cute ten year olds saying Uguu. I dont want to see an anime version of Gettysburg with all the adult males with massive beards replaced with little girls in gothic lolita outfits.

Look at Deadman Wonderland, it's release in Japan was unremarkable but here it got over a million viewers on Toonami. I think Funimation is easily going to make a profit on it.

reanimator wrote:

Nope. He was able to meet animation professionals and visit a studio years after his blog. Having met him in person, he is a professional translator by trade.

Just to answer Myaow's inquiry, here are the links:

animenewsnetwork.com/chicks-on-anime/2008-11-04

http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/index.php/what_makes_animation_interesting

Since we're on the subject of "Sakuga", I was able to see Evangelion 1.0 and 2.0 key animation drawings from Eva Pop museum at J-Pop Festival in San Francisco two days ago. Although the drawings are not labeled with animator names, I recognized drawings by Yoshiyuki Sadamoto, Takeshi Honda, Hidenori Matsubara, and others.

I'm grateful to folks of J-Pop Festival who setup the museum display of those beautiful drawings. People outside of Japan, especially the west, don't have opportunity to see something like this.

Thanks for the links!! This is great stuff. I'm steaming with jealousy at your opportunity to see all that Eva production work too; that sounds like it must have been amazing.

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