Forum - View topicNEWS: Nozomi Licenses Rental Magica TV Anime
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Here is something that should help http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/reports/market/pdf/2005_35_r.pdf
And it even includes a nice graph on how an anime gets made (I'd say our R1 distributors have moved from at the end of the process to Step 1:planning in that toy companies are brought in at that stage for licensing/funding) |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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The difference is that most only buy on DVD based on wanting to buy the "best of the best" in his/her own personal opinion of the shows he/she has been watching. With anime, until recently (and still so with some shows) the only legal way to get a show is to wait for the DVD. Also, I've seen many complaints from Spanish speakers and other language groups saying they won't buy certain shows (like TNG) on DVD because it doesn't have the dub in their language, or it has the dub in their language but that it's in the wrong dialect. So yes, there are definitely people that want to see American shows in their own language just like Americans would like to see shows in English that are done in Japan. Now I'm not saying that this is economically viable for everything, because it clearly isn't, however it does disappoint me to see things I personally really liked not get a dub, especially when I could see the dub being good. Also, to be honest, even as a collector, I'm somewhat running out of space. It was realistic to get a 2nd shelf, but... beyond that? It's getting a little taxing on storage space to have all these DVDs. I put everything in h264/vorbis mkv's so I can take it with me on the go and watch in linux. Itd be... insanely awesome (but not realistic for another 5-10 years at least) if the industry could figure out copy protection is a gigantic failure and would just give me that up front on the disc. |
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Takeyo
Posts: 736 |
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While buying legal releases of shows may not directly support the creators, I like to think that good sales figures improve the chances that the creators will be hired to work on new projects. In the same vein, renting anime DVDs doesn't put money in the R1 distributors' pockets, but presumably keeps the rental services buying new R1 releases.
As for TL notes in official releases, I still say that ADV had it right back when it released Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi. An optional subtitle track with TL notes for folks who want the additional information seems like a win/win situation to me, and I'd like to think it wouldn't draw too many additional man hours to implement. |
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Quark
Posts: 710 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Don't get me wrong, I do agree with translator notes, to an extent. If there is something that the average Japanese viewer would get, but not the average English viewer, then go ahead and give it a translator note. But there are times where, say, someone will reference Jane Austin, and the fansubs will then tell us "Jane Austin is..." which I feel is unnecessary. A knowledge of Jane Austin is not a Japanese culture reference, therefore, I feel it doesn't deserve a translator note. Or, like I said, where they insist on using the Japanese word in the script, when they could have used the English word instead - the fansub I saw of Ebichu was bad for this. They insisted on leaving the word 'manko' alone in the script, and then would have a TL note at the top saying "Manko means..." They could have waylaid this, by simply using the English equivalent of the word. It's silly stuff like that that bugs me. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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.. umm, I don't see that at all. That might have been the case back in the heydays of ADV and Geneon for some select shows (and look where it got them) but not today. Even so, out of the hundred of shows that come out each year -- just look in the ANN database, how many have R1 companies listed in the production credits?
Yeah, I guess you can say it does provide for job stability for the creators, despite the lack of financial gain.
Yep, agreed |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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@Quark
Ah ok yeah, that I agree. Reminds me of this |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Seriously, you don't see Full Metal Alchemist or Phantom....
or even more to an international distributor that is Crunchy Roll...or the studies showing "strong, anecdotal evidence" that our distributors are getting involved earlier and earlier with the anime production process (seen here on this site or here That even the report I linked to (made in the far of year of 2003) says so too? Also aren't we making the assumption that every anime series will work in every place, all the time? I can tell you straight up that there is an anime series that I'm actually hoping will never come out here, mainly because it conforms to an image than some anime fans, myself included have been fighting against and could take perception of anime back a couple of decades. Also as hard as a pill as it is to swallow some anime stories/series are harder to sell in different areas, our distributors (R1 market) have matured to the point of knowing pretty well what it's market wants and what will sell and it definitely is not "every title in Japan" This title is going to be a sub-only release so there is some hope that there is a market for it (my brother is interested at least) but that this series is one of those "might work" or "not an A title" series. Last edited by LordRedhand on Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Like I said though, an occasional handful out of hundreds
Btw, I don't mean to imply that those hundreds would benefit or would sell well elsewhere (in the mainstream) either so I'm not disagreeing with you there. In any case, my original point was that in the current system, regardless of R1 involvement, none of the money made on DVDs go back to the actual creators. Basically the publishers and sponsors would say, "hey, we need some anime to sell!" and goes off to hire some folks to create such anime; and that's basically the end of the creators' financial compensation. edit: added last paragraph |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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And your working under the assumption that all anime series will work everywhere which is not the case, as an investor why would I invest in something that would not work in my market? It doesn't make sense to do so. However what I said is true that R1 distributors are moving earlier and earleir into the production process very recently You seem focused on the past so unless the R1 distributors have time travel of course they couldn't invest in production for those series....
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Looks like you missed my edit. As far the other hundreds shows I refer to, I do mean recently within 2008-2009 and announced (unlicensed) shows for each season. Going foward it still remains to be seen how much R1 companies will get involved beyond regional licensing. (I personally think that the traditional regional licensing model (as in an exclusive transfer of distribution rights to a company for a particular region), which would not include CR, is actually counter-productive and ultimately needless though)
Anyways, I've derailed this too much already.. |
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poehitman
Posts: 93 |
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Actually, yes I do demand something substantial. Like deleted scenes or something like that. And the original creators get their money from Japan from advertising. If they want me to buy it, then "creating a version in another language" is what I want before I'll pay $15-30 bucks per 3-6 episodes. I can get entire SEASONS of US shows for that much. So if you want to justify charging that much, you better put something extra into it that's WORTH that much. THAT would be an english language audio track. You're also missing the point that even sub-only releases cost substantially more per episode than an American tv show. And that's with the show hiring actors and actresses. I highly doubt voice actors are paid what regular actors and actresses are.
You're biatching about the color of a fansub of the first season of Aria from one of the FOUR known groups who did it? They do the work for free, so I'm not complaining. Translation: While fansubs certainly can be at the same or higher levels as the pros, professional subs will give you at least a minimum standard of accuracy and quality. Fansubs are all over the map. Have you seen any DVDs that cut out the openings and endings on the basis of "our TLer doesn't do songs"? Even the best fansubs have places where I can tell that the pros had it right. REALLY?! You have a list of the qualifications and abilities of every fansubber and professional translator out there?! Wow, I bow down to your intelligence gathering skills! Also, I've seen plenty of legit R1 releases where they didn't bother subbing the songs. I'll gladly deal with one obscure reference being blown. It's not worth it to me to trade in my "taped" copies just for that.
I've compared a fansub and an R1 release. The difference in quality is negligible. It won't change my viewing experience. Only people with a hard-on for quality are going to notice, and they are the ones who are gonna pay for it. So you want me to pay $35-50 for 12 episodes of a glorified fansub when the same price of an American show gets me 26-52 episodes? When a subtitled show comes in line with per-episode pricing of American shows, THEN maybe I'll pay for it. Until then, if they want me to PAY more, then they need to PROVIDE more. And that "more" is an english audio track. Last edited by poehitman on Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tofusensei
Posts: 365 |
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Interesting discussion... I would hope lots of people buy Nozomi's DVDs as I am sure they will be better than the fansubs.
That being said... Here's how it is nowadays... Sure, a well-produced DVD/blu-ray release will be superior to the fansubs. I doubt many people wouldn't accept this as truth (they might say so just to troll a bit). But what if you quantify it? Let's say a Nozomi DVD release is 100/100 and a decent fansub release is 95/100. Now throw in the fact that the 95/100 release comes earlier and doesn't cost a penny. Suddenly that 5% drop in quality no longer justifies purchasing the DVD set. With HD transport streams, closed caption data, more people studying Japanese than ever, and fansubbers with a level of technology and knowledge the likes of which we have never seen, most shows are currently fansubbed at that 95/100 level. (Before someone jumps on this - note I said most "shows". Not most "fansubs." E.g. there's usually a group or two subbing a given show at that 95/100 level.) Then as viewers get conditioned to fansubs, they begin to appreciate the karaoke effects and matroska chapters and softsubs and whatever the flavor of the week is in the fansub scene. That's how you arrive at the status quo where people don't buy DVDs anymore. The best way to fix the problem is obviously online simulcasting but I am not confident we will ever see sales, per volume-wise, on the level we did in the early 2000s. The pirates pushed the bar too far. Highly profitable speedy blu-ray releases will probably recoup the most money back. But then you have the whole reverse importation concerns by Japan... Personally, I wish Nozomi the best of luck and I'll keep buying DVDs. -Tofu |
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poehitman
Posts: 93 |
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Maybe the "reverse importation" concerns by Japan should point out to them the fact that they are charging too much for their product.
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Tofusensei
Posts: 365 |
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The fact that the best selling anime DVD in Japan right now is priced at 2100 yen for what amounts to five minutes of actual footage speaks to that as well. |
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poehitman
Posts: 93 |
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Yeah, the fact they they will go through the trouble to import it all the way from the US rather than buy it there. Should tell them something. |
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