Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Negative Nellies
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nobahn
 Subscriber Posts: 5120 |
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Zac-- If I may be so bold as to ask, then what people / points of view DO you think are really worth listening to / reading from? |
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BonnKansan
 Posts: 116 |
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Didn't they deliberately hide the fact that Urobuchi was the writer for the show? And deliberately make the first two episodes seem like it would go the typical magical girl route, with a couple intriguing details? Wouldn't that make Zac's response right in line with what the creators were aiming to elicit? |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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I suggest you do that. Or even better, read what Zac said about the preview guide. In any way he'd sooner have an opinion about Shinbo than Urobuchi. |
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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They tried, but by the time the show aired it was well known. Also, listed in the credits. The people who make the show are part and parcel of reviewing, and if you are a professional anime reviewer, I'd expect you to know who Urobuchi Gen, Akiyuki Shinbo, Ume-sensei and Kajiura Yuki are, and be able to have that knowledge inform your opinion. Similarly, I'd like to assume ANN's reviewers have done some research on who Tanaka Romeo is... |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-10-28/new-shinbo/shaft-anime-to-be-maho-shojo-madoka-magika This is the earliest Madoka article in ANN's database... They already had Urobuchi announced at that point. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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[quote="nbahn"]
People who aren't obviously coming at this from the "I don't agree with what you said about this show, therefore you are wrong" angle. I read so much feedback about our reviews it's dizzying and I've learned many things about the way people respond to reviews in my 12+ years of doing this. The biggest thing is that people tend to read reviews in order to have their own opinion confirmed and repeated. When this doesn't happen, rather than simply acknowledging they disagree and offering a counterargument in the interest of actually discussing the art (which is what reviews now are generally supposed to encourage as a primary function) they immediately start suggesting that there is some invisible rulebook for critics that somehow was not being followed and thus the review is invalid. They'll do anything to prove that the opinion of the critic is objectively wrong rather than admitting that their own opinion is subjective, too - it's all ego and id, an unwillingness to accept someone else's view while disagreeing with it respectfully. People who don't do that and instead understand that this is discussion, analysis, critique - those people I listen to when they point out flaws in a review. When it isn't about "I'm right and you're wrong, this show [is whatever]" and instead is about an honest, good-faith attempt at discussing the work, even if there's a near-total disagreement between the reader and the critic about the merits of the show. Constructive criticism of the review that points out flaws in reasoning or the conclusions reached without being smug or nasty about it, without turning it into this stupid pointless pissing match over who's the most right about the show. We get that from time to time and I treasure that kind of feedback. But the minute it goes into "UR BIASED" "why don't you just try to like everything" "critic didn't have resume of director memorized, this review is invalid"? That stuff is of no value to me.
Knowing any of that stuff would not have changed my opinion of the first episode during the preview guide at all. I said in the preview that the show seemed like it was aiming for a dark twist on the magical girl genre a'la Nanoha, but that the only thing remarkable about it so far was the aesthetic. What would I have said knowing that Urobuchi tends to write dark? "Well the writer usually does dark stuff, and this seems like it's going that way but so far the only remarkable thing about this is the aesthetic"? That isn't particularly more useful or valid than what I already said and isn't a markedly different statement in the first place. Interestingly you had zero problems with my full-series Madoka reviews and I didn't mention the staff much at all, just what the result of their creative output was. I've never been much of a staff name-dropper - not that I mind it when people do that - but in terms of substance, nothing would've changed had I gone into the show knowing Urobuchi tends to write dark material. Once again I don't feel like it's taking much in the way of mental gymnastics to realize this stuff, but then I realize that I'm working against whatever your personal biases about me as a writer are. Already people are in here saying "well it seemed like you went into it wanting to dismiss it!" which is intensely unfair to me as a writer and isn't a statement justified or even hinted at based on what I actually wrote. So it's an uphill climb for me either way. |
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5424 Location: Iscandar |
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I do not see why liking or disliking a show should impact reviews. To me, if someone who loves ecchi only reviews echhi shows, he/she is less likely to be objective. If reviews of a certain genre were exclusively done by raving fans of that genre, what would be the point of that? I read reviews because I want to hear criticism, not simply praises. There is a thing called impartiality, which I appreciate. No one can be 100% impartial, but I tend to respect the opinions of those people more than the ones coming from raving fans of a certain genre (even if I adore that genre). |
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RyanSaotome
Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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If someone who enjoys the genre reviews it, they can give a more thorough review of what is good and bad about it from the view of a fan, instead of just saying its all crap. You seem to think that people who watch these kinds of shows just like everything regardless, which isn't true. Theres still a large difference in quality among shows, and its quite easy to do reviews to tell people which of these shows are worth watching and which aren't. Like in my opinion for this season, Nakaimo and Dakara boku-ha H ga Dekina are garbage and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone, but Dog Days' and Oda Nobuna are very enjoyable shows. |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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I think it works in the opposite way too, tho. Sometimes a reviewer might not like a particular genre, but encounters a title from it that they surprisingly enjoy, which can be good for non-fans of the genre to know. In that sense, I think reviews from both fans and non-fans of a genre can be helpful. |
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BonnKansan
Posts: 116 |
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Hating a particular genre with the fire of a thousand suns would make it hard to say anything other than 'All these shows are crap, including this one!', but I don't see why someone who's neither a fan nor a knee-jerk anti-fan couldn't give a show a fair shake, and judge it on its own merits. Sure, it's nice to have a specialist give their review, but they aren't the only ones with useful opinions. |
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DaisakuKusama
 Posts: 85 |
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I'm gonna go off topic from the review argument, and talk directly to the person who asked about making a manga but can't draw.
I wanted to make a suggestion which I hope will be helpful. Since I don't know your age or situation, you can take from this what you will and use it to your advantage. The first thing you need is patience, and endless amounts of it, because what you wish to do is going to take time. Lots and lots of time. You have to stay focused on what you're trying to do, and if you feel that your idea is your strength, keep honing that idea and working on it and expanding it. That way, you will be better prepared when you start meeting artists. So how to meet artists, then? You might want to think if there is somewhere near you where many artists converge or hang out. Is there an art school nearby? Near my city is Cal Arts, a huge breeding ground for artists and animators. There are bulletin boards scattered all over campus, and you can post ads the old-fashioned way, fliers that briefly say "Seeking artists for manga-inspired graphic novel" with your contact info. Many students are looking to beef up their portfolios for their impending job search, and you will find some that are amenable to helping you out. There are many good artists out there, and you should focus on them and not the "flakes." I grew up in Chicago and now live in L.A. There are no animation studios or manga houses in Chicago, so I had to move to where the studios are. I applied and started at the bottom rung of production, as a Production Assistant, but the key thing is once I got a job in an industry, surrounded by people who could draw, I was meeting artists and many of them have helped me out over the years. I can't draw either, but I like my ideas. And I want to see them get made. Many artists (not all) have the opposite problem; they are great at drawing but aren't so good at coming up with ideas for stories. They have a basic concept and little else. So you have to know your strengths and your limitations, keep bettering your strengths and turning your limitations into opportunities. If you trust your ideas, this will happen and you will find a way to get it done. Because I have befriended many artists through the years, I have a core group of people who I trust and who have done great work for me. Each artist is different and some insist on payment, and others will turn out awesome drawings in exchange for a free lunch. I have met more than my share of flakes. You have to just put them behind you and move on to other people. And keep your eyes on your idea, and never waver from it, even if everything seems to suck and it feels like you'll never get it done. Just roll with whatever punches come your way and move forwards. It has taken me years, but I finally have compiled a two and a half minute reel of my idea for an animated series. Let me say that again: it has taken me YEARS. I learned Photoshop and did all of the color and cleanup and line work myself. I had to hire an editor and pay him $500 to put it all together. But I am very very happy with the results and now I have something to show people. You know, big wigs and money men and studio mucky-mucks. But I don't have to rush into anything, because it's my idea and I kinda like it and I know how much effort went into it. It's taken me this long. I can be patient, and so can you. You can't escape the realities such as having to pay people to work, or the reality that some artists will talk smack and won't turn out to be as nice as you thought they were...while others, you just want to kiss them on the mouth for their awesomeness. But you probably shouldn't. My Dad used to say "There's no such thing as the overnight success story." If you do your research, you will find this is true. You have to try and put yourself in a position to get your manga made, and if one thing doesn't work, try something else. Lather, rinse, repeat. Just keep going. One last thing: write out your idea and mail a copy to yourself with a return receipt, for your own protection. You can actually copyright your idea with the U.S. Copyright office and get an official number for it. You can also register it with the Writers Guild of America for a somewhat small fee. These are all ways you can protect your idea as you share it with others, so there is no dispute that it's yours and when you created it. BTW, Brian, I love watching Doctor Who every week because it makes me smile. I love your column for the same reason. I intend to keep indulging in both, because they are both different kinds of great in my eyes. 
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Tanteikingdomkey
 Posts: 2346 |
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I want to say something about the person who wrote about asking people to work with them as an artist. I have a major problem with the do it yourself argument. first off I do agree that if you are spending 100s hours working on trying to get someone to draw for you should try and do it yourself, and the internet is not a great way of going about it. however if you really suck at it, and you are a really good writer, and am actually taking classes on it and doing other things to improve on that, then you should stick to that. because the time you spend learning how to draw is the time you could spend learn how to do what you have an actual talent in. you can send a draft to people and try to convince them that getting published with you is a major plus, and that they can also get good experience from it. that said the internet is not a good place to look, you need to kinda need to be able to walk up to the person and say please give me your thoughts on this. and then ask them to work with you.
Also yes having money to actually pay people for their work can be pretty important. |
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050795
 Posts: 230 |
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Um what? I have been an anime fan long enough to usually tell if I will like a show or not before watching it. However, I have been proven wrong enough time to give shows that I don't think I would like a chance based off of a good review. A good example of this is Redline. I usually hate shows that are all style and no substance and I am not a fan of the racing genre at all. But when I read the review I was like, "Oh maybe this is one I should check out," so I did an I really enjoyed it. I have had that experience with many shows in just about every genre, so saying that people who don't like a certain genre are never going to like any shows in that genre is more than just a little silly. If a show really is a good show (and has actual quality) then it's genre takes a back seat. |
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Blue Chocobo
 Posts: 17 |
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I definitely agree that reviews by people with similar tastes to you are more useful. While I can read random reviews from people I don't know to get an idea for the quality of a show/game/movie, there are always going to be cases where you might like something that the majority doesn't. For example, I've found that I tend to agree with Roger Ebert's movie reviews, even in cases where he goes against the majority. As a result, I'll give his opinions more weight when deciding what to see. I've ended up seeing movies that I enjoyed that had generally poor ratings, just because his reviews made them sound good. I wouldn't say that reviews are pointless if you don't share tastes with the reviewer, since they can lead to some good discussion and can give you some other points of view of a show, but I agree that it's better to listen to a smaller group of like-minded people when deciding whether or not you should buy/watch something in the first place. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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All I will say is that some people's opinions are so categorically wrong that they deserve to be invalidated.
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