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jenthehen wrote:

vashfanatic wrote:

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

The reason why people dislike the ending is because the manga exists and continues. Were Claymore an original production, no one would bitch about anything, but it again falls into a long line of shows ruined by forcing a made up ending. I don't know how popular it is in Japan, but I doubt they'd continue with it.

Given how directionless the manga has been lately, I'm about ready to give up and just accept the anime ending as the best that'll ever be. Sad

Meanwhile...

Let's see, Ikkitousen is a series with a generic action plot, silly and melodramatic characters, whose only distinguishing feature is that it has all the female characters (especially the big busted ones) in a state of nearly constant undress - and a female reviewer at Anime News Network is actually recommending it?? Dear God, feminism really has been taken out and shot in the backyard, hasn't it? I have to say, just watching an AMV of this series (it was up for an award nomination) made me physically ill, I can't imagine having to watch the entire series. And did I mention it got a sequel? The awesome women in Claymore are crying.

I'm also a feminist and I love silly fan-service shows.

Same here.It didn't made sense stroywise but who the hell cares.It was funny to a fault,the fanservie was deinately paradise city and what guy would want to see high school girls kicking the crap out of each other? It ain't shelf worthy but it's decent enough for at least a rental.

Also i agree with Claymore being shelf worthy,

but not putting DBZ as well is downright crazy.

these Box set has the original version with subs and everything else that was edited during it's run on CN.

It's the uncut DBZ version that DBZ fans and hardcore anime fans have been begging for years. i say it's a definate shelf worthy cause i'm getting to see it UNCUT & for people who want to see DBZ as it was meant to be seen.

jr0904 wrote:

i'm getting to see it UNCUT & for people who want to see DBZ as it was meant to be seen.

I'll agree,but the so called uncut HD Funimation sets have nearly half the picture cut off.If you haven't heard by now? I only own them for the Japanese mono audio.

it kinda depends what your using.Use to have that problem but efter using my HD PS3 not anymore.Also before the edited ones were finished,there was another uncut version of season 1which was also released with the Dead Zone movie with the 5.1 dobbly surround sound and those has that issue as well.

Quark wrote:

Definitely going to have to pick up Claymore, especially since it seems to be one of the last series that Funimation is releasing through singles, and I want to support the release of singles. The Funi thinpacks are too flimsy for me, dangit. I long for the olden days of nice sturdy high quality thinpacks.

If that's the case, that's really too bad. I love the big sturdy artboxes and would hate to see them go.

I watched the first two episodes of Ikki Tousen online, and I don't understand people who like it for anything other than a source of ridicule. Yeah, fanservice, I know, but the character designs are pretty bland compared to a lot of shows I've seen. And the fighting, goodness sakes alive, that's some crappy action. There are far too many pans of still images used. It'd be hard to make it less intense without trying. And I like cheesy fanservice slug-fests, normally.

Last edited by vashfanatic on Mon May 25, 2009 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

jenthehen wrote:

I'm also a feminist and I love silly fan-service shows.

That's right! I forgot! We're living in the age where feminism means supporting voting rights and equal wage, but also thinking it's totally cool to have shows where women are turned into nothing but sex objects for fanboys to ogle! Because it's funny!

If you want to watch these shows, it's your prerogative. I just reiterate my love for the strong, independent women in Claymore, who can be gorgeous and sexy without having to flash their panties or cleavage all the time.

vashfanatic wrote:

jenthehen wrote:

I'm also a feminist and I love silly fan-service shows.

That's right! I forgot! We're living in the age where feminism means supporting voting rights and equal wage, but also thinking it's totally cool to have shows where women are turned into nothing but sex objects for fanboys to ogle! Because it's funny!

I reiterate my love for the strong, independent women in Claymore, who can be gorgeous and sexy without having to flash their panties or cleavage.

Except that it could be fanservice for fanGIRLS, too. I love fanservice. This doesn't make me anti-feminist.

jenthehen wrote:

Except that it could be fanservice for fanGIRLS, too. I love fanservice. This doesn't make me anti-feminist.

So... what do you like about fanservice? How it degrades women by turning them into sex objects? 'Cause that's, like, so what feminism is all about!

A smidge of fanservice isn't the end of the world, a whole show centered on it is just insulting.

vashfanatic wrote:

jenthehen wrote:

Except that it could be fanservice for fanGIRLS, too. I love fanservice. This doesn't make me anti-feminist.

So... what do you like about fanservice? How it degrades women by turning them into sex objects? 'Cause that's, like, so what feminism is all about!

A smidge of fanservice isn't the end of the world, a whole show centered on it is just insulting.

I like fanservice because it can be sexy and fun ... yes, there is some fanservice that is no good (poorly executed in such a manner as it is more insulting/gross than anything else), but fanservice, in general, does not always degrade women by turning them into sex objects. I mean, even if a show is based on it - that's what it's trying to do - be sexy. It isn't saying "this is how women are" or "this is all women are" ... it's just absurdist fanservice fun. It's no different than porn, really - made to arouse interest Wink

Hmm, an entire review of Karin that is so busy blasting the visuals that nothing is mentioned of the dub *holds out hope this is a sign that maybe there is something "watchable" to it*

Quote:

And, if there's one thing I can respect about the show, it's that it isn't afraid to kill characters it's just spent a few episodes talking about. It can be a little harsh, but it makes for a more intense viewing experience, because you never really know what's going to happen in the next scene.

So the deaths are more random, or the generic telegraphing in advance by going "wow, this side-person sure is getting a lot of screen-time & backstory explaination ... guess they are toast?"

The 2nd & 3rd collection photos make me sad with all the volume 1-only series. I hope their companions are just squirreled away elsewhere.

jenthehen wrote:

I like fanservice because it can be sexy and fun ... yes, there is some fanservice that is no good (poorly executed in such a manner as it is more insulting/gross than anything else), but fanservice, in general, does not always degrade women by turning them into sex objects. I mean, even if a show is based on it - that's what it's trying to do - be sexy. It isn't saying "this is how women are" or "this is all women are" ... it's just absurdist fanservice fun. It's no different than porn, really - made to arouse interest Wink

"Arouse interest" means "induce sexual arousal," I'd assume, right? As in, give you something to get off on...

...which is, I assume, the "fun" you're talking about. In which case, why pretend this is anything other than porn? "Fanservice shows" has pretty much become code for just that.

And frankly, using women (even animated ones) just for the purpose of "getting off" is the absolute essence of objectification. Maybe these girls have character development that makes you treat them as subjects rather than objects, but I'm guessing no. They're just T&A for you to ogle, right? Rolling Eyes

vashfanatic wrote:

jenthehen wrote:

I like fanservice because it can be sexy and fun ... yes, there is some fanservice that is no good (poorly executed in such a manner as it is more insulting/gross than anything else), but fanservice, in general, does not always degrade women by turning them into sex objects. I mean, even if a show is based on it - that's what it's trying to do - be sexy. It isn't saying "this is how women are" or "this is all women are" ... it's just absurdist fanservice fun. It's no different than porn, really - made to arouse interest Wink

"Arouse interest" means "induce sexual arousal," I'd assume, right? As in, give you something to get off on...

...which is, I assume, the "fun" you're talking about. In which case, why pretend this is anything other than porn? "Fanservice shows" has pretty much become code for just that.

And frankly, using women (even animated ones) just for the purpose of "getting off" is the absolute essence of objectification. Maybe these girls have character development that makes you treat them as subjects rather than objects, but I'm guessing no. They're just T&A for you to ogle, right? Rolling Eyes

You know I'm a female, right? A straight, feminist female at that ... maybe I'm just a perv, but I like fanservice. If you want to call it porn (softcore), then so be it. That might be going a little far for shows with just panty-shots, but I understand what you're saying. Do you think that porn is wrong, though? I don't.

The females in anime aren't real people either - they ARE objects purely for entertainment, in a way. If some men can't distinguish and think they should treat real women as objects, then THEY are sexist.

Yes, anime has a lot of problems with sexist portrayals of women ... but I don't think fanservice is the biggest problem. I think doormat characters like Tohru from Fruits Basket are a bigger problem and make my blood boil (grow a spine, girl!!) At least in Ikki Tousen, these are TOUGH women. That bothers me much less. Also, for Western countries, anime's sexist portrayal of women is the least of our problems/battles as feminists ... as it is a niche market that a majority of people don't care about.

vashfanatic wrote:

If you want to watch these shows, it's your prerogative. I just reiterate my love for the strong, independent women in Claymore, who can be gorgeous and sexy without having to flash their panties or cleavage all the time.

You girls realize Japan has a different culture,right?

vashfanatic wrote:

"Arouse interest" means "induce sexual arousal," I'd assume, right? As in, give you something to get off on...

...which is, I assume, the "fun" you're talking about. In which case, why pretend this is anything other than porn? "Fanservice shows" has pretty much become code for just that.

And frankly, using women (even animated ones) just for the purpose of "getting off" is the absolute essence of objectification. Maybe these girls have character development that makes you treat them as subjects rather than objects, but I'm guessing no. They're just T&A for you to ogle, right? Rolling Eyes

I'm not so sure she meant 'getting off on' when she said that it arouses interest.
I consider myself a feminist as well, and I too enjoy the odd bit of fanservice now and then. Hell, one of my favourite characters is Tira Misu from Bakuretsu Hunter, and I've drawn her countless times in her skimpy leather outfit. And I can honestly say that I do not think of her in any kind of sexual manner, or get off on the idea of her.
It's also not very fair to lump fanservice in with porn either. I have an issue with porn - those are real people, exploiting themselves for money. With fanservice, no one is being exploited, because they're not real.
Like the other poster said, fanservice is just a bit of fun, and I don't necessarily see anything wrong with it. As long as the girls are fleshed out with some personality, and as long as the show isn't focused only on showing boobs and butt, then it adds a bit of a spice to a show.

Cool, I'm glad Bamboo took Ikki Tousen for what it is rather than get worked up into a humourless PC lather about it. I've only seen about the first 8 episodes of Karin subbed and have just ordered the hybrid boxset. I can see why some people dismiss it, but I think its a bit more substantive than may be obvious at first glance. I love some of the novel (to me) spins on the vampire myth, like how these vampires prefer the blood of certain types of people: i.e. some like the blood of liars, or the blood of proud people.

I also (from what I've seen so far) like the relationship between Karin and her younger sister. There was one episode that was all about the pang that a younger sibling feels when an older one no longer has the same amount of time to hang out anymore. I actually found it quite affecting.

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