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REVIEW: Sky Crawlers, The (Blu-ray)

vashfanatic wrote:

Help_me_Im_a_n00b wrote: But with ridiculous divorce rates and the threat of child support payments, and a lifetime of heavy taxation in the new socialist world, I have come to the conclusion that this society is not worth supporting, and if I can totally withdraw, I would. I think you've got way too bleak a vision of the future, but setting that aside, if you really feel this way, you first might want to talk to someone about it - a therapist, a spiritual adviser, even just a friend. Get to the root of your problems and find a way of overcoming them.

I'm rather offended by this attitude. If someone has a bleak view of society's future they must have problems? That's bull. I mean, if you disagree with their view, that's fine. But what you're doing here is jumping to the conclusion that if anyone doesn't share your sunny optimistic view then the only explanation is that they have problems or something. It's extremely arrogant.

ikillchicken wrote:

vashfanatic wrote: Help_me_Im_a_n00b wrote: But with ridiculous divorce rates and the threat of child support payments, and a lifetime of heavy taxation in the new socialist world, I have come to the conclusion that this society is not worth supporting, and if I can totally withdraw, I would. I think you've got way too bleak a vision of the future, but setting that aside, if you really feel this way, you first might want to talk to someone about it - a therapist, a spiritual adviser, even just a friend. Get to the root of your problems and find a way of overcoming them. I'm rather offended by this attitude. If someone has a bleak view of society's future they must have problems? That's bull. I mean, if you disagree with their view, that's fine. But what you're doing here is jumping to the conclusion that if anyone doesn't share your sunny optimistic view then the only explanation is that they have problems or something. It's extremely arrogant.

You're right, perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "problems." What I meant was, if you really feel in that level of despair, you need to figure out what you can do to face it and move in a new direction. As the rest of my post would indicate (I hope), I don't think he or she is necessarily wrong in thinking that society as it is now is messed up, nor in feeling that conventional lifestyles are completely unattractive. Rather, before simply giving up, you should look at what it is you really don't like, what it is that you really want, and what it is you can do to achieve that. So by "problems" I didn't mean viewpoints or issues in yourself, but rather the problems around you that make you feel there's nothing you can do other than withdraw from the world.

And I don't particularly have a "sunny optimistic view" of the world myself. Currently I'm an unemployed graduate who's about to go live with her parents and work a part time job while trying to get placed into a program to teach English in Japan. I just think you're limiting yourself if you think your only options are a life of drudgery and misery and a life of locking yourself up and playing video games. The only way we can avoid a bleak and horrible tomorrow is to actually try to do something about it instead of just letting those be the only options. Nothing will ever change, the future will always be bleak, if we are ready to simply throw in the towel.

But you don't have to do this alone. Like I said, look for resources that can help you do it. And keep looking, because the first person you turn to may tell you to "get over it" and just accept that you must conform to society. Which is part of the problem that hikikomoris face in Japan, namely, the demand to conform, which is bad enough already in most countries but particularly strong in Japan. Nor does Japan have a lot of resources for people with depression or other real issues that can make any attempts to come up with new ways of living even more difficult. Hence why I hope Oshii, if this was really his message, would have the insight to realize that it isn't so simple to break out of the molds of living, whether it be one of isolation or one of conformity.

So to summarize:
A life of failed marriages, taxes, and working misery is not your only option. Anyone who says so is part of the problem, and you should ignore them and try to find a way of living the life you want to live, one where you can be as content as possible. Look into all the options before deciding isolation is the only one left (it probably won't be). Get help from sympathetic people if you need it. Don't give up, don't conform, fight the power, etc. etc.

You're right, perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "problems." What I meant was, if you really feel in that level of despair, you need to figure out what you can do to face it and move in a new direction.

Which is part of the problem that hikikomoris face in Japan, namely, the demand to conform, which is bad enough already in most countries but particularly strong in Japan.

I have to say that I completely agree. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to join the millions of other corporate slaves out there. That's why we have free will as human beings: to decide what we want out of life...no matter what it is.

I myself deal with depression and anxiety every day of my life but, I have so many more options than a young Japanese person would have. As a people and a society, they just don't seem to want to deal with their problems.

I watched this just last night, and while I thought it was excellent, I have no idea who I'd recommend it to. This thread seems to give a good idea of why. Maybe it's a case like Haibane-Renmei where a certain title hit me at just the right time.

What I think is missing from the conversation is that the characters really have no choice in the what they do. They are forced into being teenagers their whole lives and doing what they do, so indulging in prostitution or drinking is the only way they can get pleasure out of their lives. The tragedy of trying long-term relations or having some semblance of a normal life is shown somewhat here with Suito. I think this little bit of information makes it more than Oshii shaking his finger at the youth of Japan.

seemed more like a statement on war.....

Everyone's replaceable.
Human's need it.
etc....

Henry Jones wrote:

I watched this just last night, and while I thought it was excellent, I have no idea who I'd recommend it to. This thread seems to give a good idea of why. Maybe it's a case like Haibane-Renmei where a certain title hit me at just the right time.

I'd recommend it to Antonioni fans and fans of 1960s European movies in general.

Quote:

What I think is missing from the conversation is that the characters really have no choice in the what they do. They are forced into being teenagers their whole lives and doing what they do, so indulging in prostitution or drinking is the only way they can get pleasure out of their lives. The tragedy of trying long-term relations or having some semblance of a normal life is shown somewhat here with Suito. I think this little bit of information makes it more than Oshii shaking his finger at the youth of Japan.

Yeah, this is possibly the sole disagreement I have with Justin's take. I don't think Oshii is looking at his characters with contempt as his review suggests. He certainly does portray them as pitiful at times, but I don't think he's unsympathetic to their plight. I mean, there are two characters who basically break down emotionally at key parts of the film, and it's animated with a fair degree of detail and care to body movement and posture. Emotional moments are not something Oshii usually allows his characters the luxury of having. The fact that he gave them a sort of cathartic emotional release does seem to indicate some degree sympathy on his part. But I do agree with Justin that Oshii doesn't seem to be interested in Yuichi as much as Suito. Yuichi is more of a plot function, a stand-in, an insert-your-face-here character to explore basically everyone else around him.

Quote:

seemed more like a statement on war..... Everyone's replaceable. Human's need it. etc....

I disagree and here's why.

While the film on the surface posits a situation of war-for-entertainment, he really doesn't focus on the effects of war on the populace, the carnage of war, or anything like that. Celebrity culture is hinted at in a few scenes with the pilots getting media attention but again, Oshii doesn't focus on that either. There are very few scenes of actual fighting. He doesn't show crusty old politicians scheming behind the scenes about how to profit off war, etc,.

So while on the surface he seems to be talking about war, the visuals say otherwise. I absolutely think Henry is right. It's about breaking a cycle of apathy and inaction, and it's a commentary about the tendency of people (especially the under 30 set) to do something just because they're told to do it, or that it's the accepted belief in mainstream society that you're SUPPOSED to do what you're told. In that sense it makes sense that it's a Japanese film because Japan's a culture of conformity. More recently, it's also a culture of apathy because younger people are less and less inclined to be interested in politics and what's going on around them because it seems hopeless to change it.

And I think most people here can relate to the feeling of not being able to do something and giving up when those in power do something you have a fundamental problem with.

I'd recommend it to Antonioni fans and fans of 1960s European movies in general.

Yeah, this is possibly the sole disagreement I have with Justin's take. I don't think Oshii is looking at his characters with contempt as his review suggests. He certainly does portray them as pitiful at times, but I don't think he's unsympathetic to their plight. I mean, there are two characters who basically break down emotionally at key parts of the film, and it's animated with a fair degree of detail and care to body movement and posture. Emotional moments are not something Oshii usually allows his characters the luxury of having. The fact that he gave them a sort of cathartic emotional release does seem to indicate some degree sympathy on his part. But I do agree with Justin that Oshii doesn't seem to be interested in Yuichi as much as Suito. Yuichi is more of a plot function, a stand-in, an insert-your-face-here character to explore basically everyone else around him.

Quote:

seemed more like a statement on war..... Everyone's replaceable. Human's need it. etc....

I disagree and here's why.

While the film on the surface posits a situation of war-for-entertainment, he really doesn't focus on the effects of war on the populace, the carnage of war, or anything like that. Celebrity culture is hinted at in a few scenes with the pilots getting media attention but again, Oshii doesn't focus on that either. There are very few scenes of actual fighting. He doesn't show crusty old politicians scheming behind the scenes about how to profit off war, etc,.

So while on the surface he seems to be talking about war, the visuals say otherwise. I absolutely think Henry is right. It's about breaking a cycle of apathy and inaction, and it's a commentary about the tendency of people (especially the under 30 set) to do something just because they're told to do it, or that it's the accepted belief in mainstream society that you're SUPPOSED to do what you're told. In that sense it makes sense that it's a Japanese film because Japan's a culture of conformity. More recently, it's also a culture of apathy because younger people are less and less inclined to be interested in politics and what's going on around them because it seems hopeless to change it.

And I think most people here can relate to the feeling of not being able to do something and giving up when those in power do something you have a fundamental problem with.

Someday I would like Oshii to make me feel something. The only emotion I get from an Oshii film is emptiness. Not even empathy or sadness or happiness. A hardened writer/director like him should by now have the life experience to create characters that are likeable and able to be missed. Most anime makes me feel nothing.

This film is no different. it made me think though. I guess that's a start.

Which doesn't give much hope for mass appeal (Not that there was in the first place). When I was in a foreign/independent/classic/cult film group, we screened "Blow Up," and that was a rather restless crowd.

Yeah, I noticed that my second viewing. I think it was mostly the circumstances of the story and Yuichi being an insert point for the audience. You can't really do much if you depend on Yuichi for the emotional anchor of the story until a certain point. What I'm impressed with is how much they tell about Suito from non-verbal things. Pay attention to how she dresses (and undresses. It's PG-13, but the orderly way she undoes everything at the guest house says more than what she's actually undressing for) or things like how she pours her wine throughout the movie. That's not to mention comparing the scene where we first meet Suito and spoiler[ The scene after the credits where she greets Yuichi's replacement ]. I didn't even notice the little differences until the second time around, but I think it changes how to look at the movie instead of giving it an extra-pessimist spin. spoiler[For the length of the movie, Suito seems resigned to playing out the cycle, but at the end, her taking off her glasses and wearing lipstick suggests she's going to try to rise above the cycle and attempt some sort of happiness beyond the the little indulgences. Or it could imply more along Justin's line of thinking and she's taking her petty pleasure rather than trying to escape. Or, it could be another attempt that fails. It was a lot more open-ended than when I first started writing in the spoiler tag.]

But the thing is, I DON'T think Oshii is being really heavy handed here because as the thread has evolved into a discussion that it ISN'T SPECIFICALLY ABOUT HIKKIKOMORI AT ALL. Otaku debate aside I DON'T think he's putting the blame on his young characters here for their situation. The film clearly places them in a position where much of the blame is put on the higher ups, the authority figures/media/politicians. Oshii actually suggests it's a cultural issue, a social problem that stems from many complex issues out of the character's control. So, I'm not totally buying into the (still evident) assumption that he's slamming hikkikomori here..

Yes, Oshii does suggest that they try to change their situation by making some steps on their own, but I'm not reading "Suck it up and stop whining." at all. He's pretty sympathetic to his characters here, maybe more sympathetic than I've seen him ever.