×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: NTUSA Re-Writes Challenged by Columnist


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10420
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:37 am Reply with quote
Unfortunately this kind of practice is relatively common. Common enough that some staff at ANN questioned why we bothered reporting on it, "Everyone knows that the major magazines often dilute reviews, why bother writing about it, its not news" is a rough paraphrase of what I was told.

Personally, I felt it was worth reporting because this is the first time someone in the anime industry has spoken out about it. Generally writers keep their mouths shut or complain amongst themselves in private, because a public complaint pretty much spells the end of their career. As someone pointed out above, the industry is pretty tight lipped about these things.

To NTUSA's def fence, as I mentioned above, they aren't the only ones doing this. Many magazines and websites have a policy of only posting neutral to positive reviews. This can be for one of two reasons, the ethically sound "There's always something good in a show that someone will like and its the reviewers job to find it" and the not-so-ethically-sound "if we trash their product they won't advertise with us."

Furthermore, even at publications that have no such "neutral to positive" policy, editors sometimes dilute negative comments because they disagree with them. This is a whole different issue regarding what an editor's job is, and what kind of limits an editor should have. IMHO an editor should never change the meaning of an authors text, but that's only my opinion.

What really happened at NTUSA, with this one article, and the majority of their articles probably won't come to the public's eye. As Gatsu said, it might just be a case of a disgruntled former employee (I don't know why Corey left ADV, but I felt it was appropriate to mention that he did work there in the past, so that people could, if they wanted, draw conclusions from it).

It's worth noting that NTUSA has, in the past, published reviews that were as flattering or more so than Corey's.


On a related note, on that neutral to good for advertising dollars policy... At ANN, we've found that companies are for the most part pretty thick skinned about reviews. They like the good ones, and they even appreciate the negative ones provided the reviews are reasonable. ANN has made some very negative comments about some shows, and the companies releasing those shows still send us screeners and continue to advertise with us.

-t
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
Stueypark



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 116
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:21 pm Reply with quote
I don't know, I think it easily falls within the realm of what an editor is allowed to do. Most perioical or news writers know that editors don't have the luxury of sending all of the revisions back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cowpunk



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 168
Location: Oakland - near the Newtype Lab
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Stueypark wrote:
Most perioical or news writers know that editors don't have the luxury of sending all of the revisions back.


In my case I don't have the time to check revisions. Most of us who write for magazines have day jobs and other projects leaving us with little time.

My "Below the Surface" columns have few revisions and so far I have no complaints. For me this is very important as I have my own "tone" in my writing which I work hard at maintaining. If the editors were ever to do something that bothered me I would let them know what and why very quickly.

Plus this month for my column on Chambara (p.57) they got a great image from Lady Snowblood.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Redcoffin



Joined: 05 Dec 2003
Posts: 7
Location: Houston, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:43 pm Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
Unfortunately this kind of practice is relatively common. Common enough that some staff at ANN questioned why we bothered reporting on it, "Everyone knows that the major magazines often dilute reviews, why bother writing about it, its not news" is a rough paraphrase of what I was told.

Personally, I felt it was worth reporting because this is the first time someone in the anime industry has spoken out about it. Generally writers keep their mouths shut or complain amongst themselves in private, because a public complaint pretty much spells the end of their career. [...]
-t


This is all true. My impression is that even the fans on AOD showed little understanding or interest in what Corey Henson wrote -- and he is not exactly a nobody. The AOD post got a few responses of the "why'd they do that?" variety, and then it was locked by a forum moderator who explained that there was already another thread open for discussing the contents of that issue of NTUSA. But that thread never picked up on it. Henson's post has sunk into obscurity almost immediately -- a small reward for "ending his career," I think....

All of which makes me wonder why he posted at all. Those edits were insulting and blatant, but no more insulting and blatant than 98% of what happens at any big glossy magazine full of marketing glurge, i.e. any car magazine, motorcycle magazine, stereo magazine, camera magazine, etc. I can only guess that he must have been really angry about something -- or at someone in particular. Perhaps he had received verbal promises that they wouldn't do that to his column, and then suddenly discovered it had happened and reacted. I am also a professional writer, and I know we can get very emotional and unreasonable when some editor chops up our "precious literary work" and treats it like "product."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kyuuketsuki_Kurai



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 17
Location: Pen Argyl, PA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:54 pm Reply with quote
i don't see the big deal here... i understand no one likes their work edited but if you think big magazines don't do this alot you need to think again... when Newtype prints harsh reviews like that they suffer... a lot... so it seems understandable they'd tone it down... i garentee he knew they could do this or he wouldve done more than complaining on a message board...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger My Anime My Manga
Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:58 pm Reply with quote
Redcoffin wrote:


This is all true. My impression is that even the fans on AOD showed little understanding or interest in what Corey Henson wrote -- and he is not exactly a nobody. The AOD post got a few responses of the "why'd they do that?" variety, and then it was locked by a forum moderator who explained that there was already another thread open for discussing the contents of that issue of NTUSA. But that thread never picked up on it. Henson's post has sunk into obscurity almost immediately -- a small reward for "ending his career," I think....


Perhaps Newtype USA "asked" AoD to either remove the offending matter or lock such threads due to reasons unknown. AoD response is to lock it, and refer any further matter to another thread.

Lets put it this way: You only have one side of the story of a Magazine where a former employee makes a disgruntled post about how he got edited over a review. Coupled with the fact that Newtype is already having a ton of bad press from many sources (End of Evangelion's Review, the Whole Free DVD Debacle, the fact that ADV owns Newtype USA.....), you would think Newtype would take steps to limit the negativity as much as possible. They can't respond publicly, because it might either cast more doubt on their rag, or would make the situation even worse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TiredGamer



Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 246
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:52 pm Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
Unfortunately this kind of practice is relatively common.


I think you mean this is common in the entertainment media in general. The import entertainment industry is still incredibly young and so is its media. While I wouldn't sensationalize this matter, it certainly is pertinant to discuss the obvious growing pains. Editorial fluffing is still very new to fans who, not very long ago, could be on a first name basis with the actual owners of these companies. There's still a lot of personal connection in the industry. This is one of the signs that personal touch and feel is being dropped for a more professional approach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:10 pm Reply with quote
Haiseikoh 1973 wrote:

Perhaps Newtype USA "asked" AoD to either remove the offending matter or lock such threads due to reasons unknown. AoD response is to lock it, and refer any further matter to another thread.


Looking at the post the mod made when the thread was locked, it seemed normal moderating to me. I mean sure, this was a specific issue with a review, but it was in the Jan issue of NTUSA, which they already had a thread for. Would I have locked the thread? No. You could probably find other mods on AoD that wouldn't have locked it either, just like you could find more that would. In any case, it's not like the thread was deleted, which if NTUSA would have had anything to do with it, I'm sure that is what they would have wanted. In the end, it just means that instead of posting in that thread, now you have to post in another one, big deal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger My Anime
Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:27 pm Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
Haiseikoh 1973 wrote:

Perhaps Newtype USA "asked" AoD to either remove the offending matter or lock such threads due to reasons unknown. AoD response is to lock it, and refer any further matter to another thread.


Looking at the post the mod made when the thread was locked, it seemed normal moderating to me. I mean sure, this was a specific issue with a review, but it was in the Jan issue of NTUSA, which they already had a thread for. Would I have locked the thread? No. You could probably find other mods on AoD that wouldn't have locked it either, just like you could find more that would. In any case, it's not like the thread was deleted, which if NTUSA would have had anything to do with it, I'm sure that is what they would have wanted. In the end, it just means that instead of posting in that thread, now you have to post in another one, big deal.


Well, we're slinging wild conspiracy theories, so let's agree to disagree.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Corey Henson



Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:45 pm Reply with quote
I posted this at AoD, so I'll post it here, too:

I just want to add to my previous comments that I didn't post my comments out of spite towards ADV. I used to work for ADV, I left on good terms and have many fond memories of my time there, and still have friends on Newtype's staff. I merely wanted to protect what little reputation I may have as a comics reviewer--I would hate to think that anyone would buy Karas based on what was printed in Newtype, and never trust my review skills (such as they are) again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SquidBilly



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 17
Location: Oakland, CA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:05 pm Reply with quote
Corey Henson wrote:
I just want to add to my previous comments that I didn't post my comments out of spite towards ADV. I still have friends on Newtype's staff. I merely wanted to protect what little reputation I may have as a comics reviewer--I would hate to think that anyone would buy Karas based on what was printed in Newtype, and never trust my review skills (such as they are) again.


If you have friends on the Newtype staff, why didn't you...uhh...bring this up with them directly instead of dragging them through the mud? I mean, if you're trying to save your reputation as a professional writer, it seems to me that airing your dirty laundry in public wouldn't win you many more gigs. *shrug*

Like others have said on here, I'm sure this happens all the time. But honestly...it's not like the Newtype people turned it into "a must buy, this is AWESOME." Reading that it's "just OK" certainly isn't glowing praise like some are making it out to be.

It's not even clear who wrote this -- I don't see your name next to the review.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thecactusman17



Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 167
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:35 pm Reply with quote
s_j wrote:

I do purchase NTUSA, but for the same reason I buy the Japanese version...to look at all the pretty pictures.


Heh, it's like Playboy: everybody buys it "for the articles."

I haven't purchased a single NTUSA ince they stopped doing the DVD inserts (yes, I am aware that they've restarted them). I just realized that I get more informative news here and at other websites, often with improved writing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marcyu



Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 28
Location: Destin, Florida
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:18 am Reply with quote
Articles do get edited all the time, but I think it runs deeper than that in this case. In all likelihood, the reason this particular article was changed in this manner was not for any legitimate editorial reason, but to appease the magazine's advertiser - in this case, Dark Horse Comics. His journalistic integrity has been compromised due to revenue enhancement, a huge no-no for any real publication. It's more common practice to just pull the article in its entirety and replace it with a filler (which is what we do at The USA Today). But with such limited volunteer staff writers, I'm guessing Newtype USA did not have the resources to pull that off, so the editor(s) took the most expedient route available to him/her/them.

I'm siding with the writer here. ADV should have just pulled it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15299
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:54 am Reply with quote
Well I guess I'll apologize to Corey, since he had the best intentions. Sorry, and good luck on your next gig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
zaphdash



Joined: 14 Aug 2002
Posts: 620
Location: Brooklyn
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:00 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
zaph:
Quote:
The original said that the comic "fails miserably." The rewrite said that it "works just OK." "Fails miserably," to me, says that this comic was a veritable train wreck. "Works just OK" tells me that it's hit or miss, but it's not terrible.


Actually, he said "fails considerably", which means that it's not a total loss, thus validating the argument that it's at least satisfactory if not excellent.

Sorry, I must have misread it. My mistake. I would still say "fails considerably" is not essentially the same as "works just OK." But obviously it's a few shades better than "fails miserably."

Quote:
Quote:
The original says that the creators try to cram too much story into too little space. It's neutral on the story itself, but says that they don't give themselves enough time to fully develop it. The rewrite says that they have a "tremendous story to cram into a small space." Tremendous, although it can mean simply "huge," usually carries a positive connotation.


Tremendous can also imply bloated and slow.

Personally, I can't recall tremendous ever carrying those sorts of implications. I've only ever heard it used to describe something as good and/or huge (neutrally). I suppose it's merely a difference in perspective, though. You obviously do feel that tremendous carries those meanings, but when I hear the word, I feel like it's a neutral description of sheer size or, in proper context, that it's describing something positively. I feel like I should note that a brief check of two dictionaries shows only the huge or positive meanings, but nothing about bloated or slow.

Quote:
Quote:
Then the addition tacked onto the end of the final sentence in the rewrite directly contradicts what he said in his original version.


Not necessarily, since the writer still seems ambivalent enough about the content that he chooses not to knock it out of the park. If he hates it, then why doesn't he be more consistent in his opinion, instead of leaving room for the possibility that it could be positive later?

That part of my post was based in part on what we've already established was a misread on my part. If it fails "considerably" instead of "miserably," then the addition at the end isn't quite so bad, although I still feel that it doesn't mesh well with what the original said. Something that fails considerably doesn't also work nicely...it just doesn't sync up.

dmanjdb wrote:
Quote:
The original says that the creators try to cram too much story into too little space. It's neutral on the story itself, but says that they don't give themselves enough time to fully develop it. The rewrite says that they have a "tremendous story to cram into a small space." Tremendous, although it can mean simply "huge," usually carries a positive connotation. It means not only that there's a lot of story to tell, but that it's a generally good story.


Nice analysis dude, but is the other way around.

...no, it's not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group