×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Anime aesthetics.


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nobahn
Subscriber



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5120
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:23 pm Reply with quote
semsnake wrote:
First one Smile . Though you can replace it with something along side of; visual representation of art and emotions. Something that compliments the product's use of visuals. I don't really know how to explain it.

If you are referring to the adjective or noun definitions, then I think that I understand what you mean.

EDIT: I see that Key beat me to the punch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
semsnake



Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
semsnake wrote:
No, English is not my first language. I am aware of the horrible structure and problematic grammar, it was mainly due to the situation I was in during the writing.

Actually, your English is pretty good. I didn't see any major problems with it.

Quote:
While not as experienced on anime as you people most likely are, I do find the current state of anime aesthetics, while beneficial with its simplicity, to be ultimately unfavorable. I rather prefer when artists create their own types of art styles that aren't necessarily influenced by mainstream anime. It's a bold statement, and I am open to be proven otherwise, but I have formed this opinion solely based on my observations.

In other words, you're looking for more experimental art styles. Some of that does appear every year, but anime being a commercial product is naturally limits how frequently it occurs.

And, frankly, I'm fine with it not happening frequently. As much as fans complain about lack of originality in anime, most actually don't want series with original styles all of the time. Also, I often find very unconventional art styles to be aesthetically repugnant; just because something is an original art style does not automatically mean that it's good.


I don't necessarily ask for more original or experimental art styles, rather art styles that find a balance between the usual and the unique. I can't really be the only one that has noticed noticed that the more realistic art styles offer their fair share of advantages too, yet are left mostly untouched. Its not that I crave the more realistic art styles, but rather feel disappointed at their absence. I know i'm stepping outside of the border on this one, but Vagabond is an great example of a mixture between realism and "anime" art style.
While not completely realistic with its stylistic liberties, it manages to introduce anime influences in a form of a realistic art style. From an economic perspective it's quite understandably, but I'm puzzled as to why the this is so uncommon in this colossal giant of visual media.

I'm sorry if this sounded whiny, I just spoke from my mind without thorough examination.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MadShadow42



Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:59 pm Reply with quote
As my first contribution to this forum, I might as well throw in my two cents. I think that many, many modern anime are indeed falling back on common cliche'd styles, but that has always been the case. It's just that we're more likely to see more of the recent stuff and spot the consistent patterns, whereas oldies have the novelty of being old, and we're less likely to hunt them down (this is a generalization, if you prefer oldies that's fine). As Sturgeon put it, 90% of everything is crap, and this applies to visual styles as well as stories and production values.

The continuing prevalence of the "moe" style is also a major contributor to this apparent stagnation you describe, and it has become very easy to pin down some anime as light novel adaptations simply by their art styles.

That said, there are several stand-out exceptions in the last five years, both adaptations and original productions. Time of Eve is one of the few anime I've seen to successfully integrate traditional 2D animation and CG and makes it look gorgeous, while playing with innovative camera work and making surprisingly good use of facial expressions. Puella Magi Madoka Magica manages to blend many experimental styles and uses them to integrate some well-placed symbolism into its visuals. The Tatami Galaxy couples minimalist art with highly fluid animation to create a thoroughly unique aesthetic. I could keep going with several other examples: Kyousogiga, Bunny Drop, Redline, Mawaru Penguindrum, not to mention several revivals of older styles (hello, A Woman Named Fujiko Mine). The anime industry is not without its problems, but I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
semsnake



Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:12 pm Reply with quote
MadShadow42 wrote:
As my first contribution to this forum, I might as well throw in my two cents. I think that many, many modern anime are indeed falling back on common cliche'd styles, but that has always been the case. It's just that we're more likely to see more of the recent stuff and spot the consistent patterns, whereas oldies have the novelty of being old, and we're less likely to hunt them down (this is a generalization, if you prefer oldies that's fine). As Sturgeon put it, 90% of everything is crap, and this applies to visual styles as well as stories and production values.

The continuing prevalence of the "moe" style is also a major contributor to this apparent stagnation you describe, and it has become very easy to pin down some anime as light novel adaptations simply by their art styles.

That said, there are several stand-out exceptions in the last five years, both adaptations and original productions. Time of Eve is one of the few anime I've seen to successfully integrate traditional 2D animation and CG and makes it look gorgeous, while playing with innovative camera work and making surprisingly good use of facial expressions. Puella Magi Madoka Magica manages to blend many experimental styles and uses them to integrate some well-placed symbolism into its visuals. The Tatami Galaxy couples minimalist art with highly fluid animation to create a thoroughly unique aesthetic. I could keep going with several other examples: Kyousogiga, Bunny Drop, Redline, Mawaru Penguindrum, not to mention several revivals of older styles (hello, A Woman Named Fujiko Mine). The anime industry is not without its problems, but I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic.


Great contribution to the thread. You most certainly have my attention with that response, though some of these examples to stumble up on my criticism, but I can't really lock my judgement until I have actually delved deeper into them.

(I know it sounds kinda sarcastic, but I really do mean it Very Happy .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MadShadow42



Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:41 pm Reply with quote
semsnake wrote:
Great contribution to the thread. You most certainly have my attention with that response, though some of these examples to stumble up on my criticism, but I can't really lock my judgement until I have actually delved deeper into them.

(I know it sounds kinda sarcastic, but I really do mean it Very Happy .


Hey, if my viewpoints weren't met with some measure of disagreement and criticism then it wouldn't be an opinion worth sharing Smile

Of course, what art styles are "innovative" is in and of itself a subjective matter. Where do we draw the line between being "inspired by" something and being a "ripoff"? How different does a style have to be to "stand out"? What if some people find the different style "ugly"? What's more important, production values or art design? The list goes on.

Personally, I try to focus on the artistic intent behind an art design, as well as on how well it parallels the narrative and themes it's being used to convey. After all, anime is about combining visuals with story. In general, I admire styles that show sincere effort and inspiration.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Saffire



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1255
Location: Iowa, USA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:47 pm Reply with quote
I think part of the reason is the lack of variance in anime settings. Think about how many shows are set in a school every season and you should get the idea pretty quickly. Compounding onto that, a lot of shows use actual locations, and so everything feels the same because not only are they using the same style, they're using the same (or similar) locations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
nobahn
Subscriber



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5120
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Saffire's point brings us to the problem of originality.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
semsnake



Joined: 29 Sep 2012
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:58 pm Reply with quote
MadShadow42 wrote:
semsnake wrote:
Great contribution to the thread. You most certainly have my attention with that response, though some of these examples to stumble up on my criticism, but I can't really lock my judgement until I have actually delved deeper into them.

(I know it sounds kinda sarcastic, but I really do mean it Very Happy .


Hey, if my viewpoints weren't met with some measure of disagreement and criticism then it wouldn't be an opinion worth sharing Smile

Of course, what art styles are "innovative" is in and of itself a subjective matter. Where do we draw the line between being "inspired by" something and being a "ripoff"? How different does a style have to be to "stand out"? What if some people find the different style "ugly"? What's more important, production values or art design? The list goes on.

Personally, I try to focus on the artistic intent behind an art design, as well as on how well it parallels the narrative and themes it's being used to convey. After all, anime is about combining visuals with story. In general, I admire styles that show sincere effort and inspiration.

Though there are some art styles that truly don't suit to certain settings and themes. It wouldn't seem appealing to have for example a psychological horror show limited within the boundaries of an unsuitable art style. But there is also the fact that some art style don't have the capacity to display scenes of emotions and feelings without falling in to cheesiness. Though I have seen art style that I detest used masterfully, which usually surprises me.

Saffire: You do have a point here. Quite a few animes seem to be unable to distinguish themselves from other animes set in familiar settings. This is common in "High School" animes I guess. But I can't speak honestly about this without bordering an unfamiliar territory.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RHachicho



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 897
Location: Essex, UK
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:25 pm Reply with quote
Hmmm I can't quite agree with this. I will agree that there is a "Mainstream" of Anime styles that are common among the more generic or less experimental Anime. But if you wonder off the beaten track a bit there are tonnes of Anime with unusual styles. That there is a core of popular generic stuff should not surprise us seeing as we are not dealing with a genre but with a medium that encompasses said genres. And therefore the unique feel of a shows art is more of a signature of quality within the medium than it is a sign that the medium itself is stale. As long as there is demand it will be filled. Demand for quality and demand for cliched cheesefests. Which to the connoisseur have a charm all their own sometimes.

To play the devils advocate sometimes I think that artists are too concerned with being original. And will try anything someone else hasn't done before. Often without regard to the fact that the primary reason it wasn't done was because it was a stupid idea anyway. Alot of the time I think it is more important that something is done well than it is done originally.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BonusStage



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:21 pm Reply with quote


no such thing as 'a main anime style'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rheiders



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 1137
Location: Colorful Colorado :)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:53 am Reply with quote
RHachicho wrote:

To play the devils advocate sometimes I think that artists are too concerned with being original. And will try anything someone else hasn't done before. Often without regard to the fact that the primary reason it wasn't done was because it was a stupid idea anyway. Alot of the time I think it is more important that something is done well than it is done originally.


I think that within the realm of art, even if an idea turns out to be a failure, it's good to give it a try because you really don't know how it'll turn out until you do^^ After all, how can you know if an idea is stupid if it's never been done before? All (good) art is experimentation, and I think that applies to some of the "artsier" anime series out there as well.

Even after saying that, part of the reason I got into anime was because the style, specifically the generic shoujo style, appealed to me, so I don't really mind if there's one prevailing "style" that is popular at different times. (Even then, there's still variety there simply because of the variety of genres out there- for example, compare a generic-looking shoujo series like Kimi ni Todoke to a generic-looking shounen action series like Naruto or Blue Exorcist, or to a generic-looking moe series like Strike Witches, etc.) However, I also enjoy some of the more artsy efforts as well. I adore the art styles for shows like Utena, Gankutsuou, Mononoke, Casshern Sins, and Usagi Drop, but I also like the looks of Ouran High School Host Club and Blue Exorcist. Animation is an incredibly broad medium, so I think there's room for both. And I think the modern anime industry agrees with me. While the summer season was pretty weak over all, in the spring I followed Kids on the Slope, tsuritama, Space Brothers, Polar Bear Cafe, and Hunter x Hunter, a group of shows comprising a variety of different art styles which all appealed to me in some way. And of course, those weren't the only styles that were evident that season, just the ones belonging to shows that interested me (and that I had time to watch =P). In general, most seasons include a couple of more experimental shows, and as long as that's the case I'm fine with how things are^^ (Even though I still pray every night for more shoujo and josei anime...Having three shoujo manga adaptations this season is amazing!)

I will agree that quality of animation is a big issue here. In my view, below-average production values can be forgiven if the animation director is talented enough to make it less noticeable (despite its outstanding visual style, Mononoke isn't exactly the most expensive-looking show out there xD), but of course good production values are a plus. A show can excel visually without an experimental visual style- Moribito and Wolf's Rain are two of the best-looking shows I've ever seen, but the art and animation styles there do nothing new for anime as a whole. They're just executed really damn well. I guess I'll stop rambling for now and hope that maybe a little bit of that mess made some kind of sense to somebody^^;
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4082
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:25 am Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
Some other recent shows that I think look rather different from most modern anime are Sakamichi no Apollon, which took a highly realistic approach, productions by Shinbo Akiyuki and Studio SHAFT like Madoka Magica and Bakemonogatari, and Yondemasu-yo, Azazel-san with its chibi demons. noitaminA shows often have distinctive aesthetics. Look at the Spring, 2010, pairing of Sarai-ya Goyou and Yojouhan Shinwa Taikei for examples.


Akiyuki Shinbo's style isn't anything new as he was preceded by an earlier Akiyuki Shinbo who worked in cel animation and who wasn't as popular. {The fact they're the same guy is rather meaningless. Right?}.

I've just started watching Kids On The Slope {Sakamichi no Apollo} and I can't help but think of Max Fleischer's "rotoscoping" animation process which is roughly 90 years old. Whether or not there's a connection, I don't know but it looks so like it. Even considering the advances in technology and differences in cel to computer...

Anyway, the main question is one of mass production versus art, I think. The main difference in anime starts with character designs and most importantly their source.

Most light novels deal with very stock designs. Big eyes, standard uniforms and outfits, easily indentifiable on a cover. Everything has exceptions but it's pretty easy to tell which shows are based off of popular and easy to make light novels. Such as, ironically, Oreimo which details the possible emptiness of the process while being an example of it.

Manga; This is where things can get fun especially if the original manga in question has a very distinctive style such as Mysterious Girlfriend X or Aria. But then there's animes based on artists who have stock designs across many works. I'm not going to bother with examples, I'm sure they're fairly obvious.

Visual novels and videogames tend to fall somewhere in between. Companies tend to build an image bank where you see a character and immediately think "Oh, it's from so and so". It can be fairly striking if it's animated well. Usually it's not as they're there to sell the game not glorify it.

Animation is money, simple as that. Sure there's talent involved but that costs more money than it's usually worth. It doesn't have to be good, it doesn't even have to be average, it just has to come on or under budget.

I'd like to see more anime based off of manga, especially those with disitinctive and individual designs like Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer. I was thrilled when I heard Mysterious Girlfriend X was getting an anime and I was even more thrilled when I saw those great felt tip characters in motion, drool included. Sadly, standout titles are few and far between and titles from the same source like Weekly Shounen Jump tend to look alike {for obvious reasons...}. Don't get me started on shoujo...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:11 pm Reply with quote
BonusStage wrote:
no such thing as 'a main anime style'


You know that "main" doesn't mean there are no exceptions right? In fact, it doesn't even mean there are few exceptions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:27 pm Reply with quote
semsnake wrote:

As an informal means of gauging, is it the case that in general conversational circles, the noun "aesthetics" is primarily intended in the first sense? Although it is perhaps a sign of parochialism on my part, I would find it moderately surprising if so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
vashna



Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 1313
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:34 pm Reply with quote
I don't mean to get too off topic, but there was a story in the news recently that sort of angered me. I'm surprised it didn't show up in the ANN headlines list. Anyways, though, there's a Ukrainian woman who is being paraded around as a real life anime character:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57524592-1/real-life-anime-girl-bats-her-enormous-eyelashes-at-you/

Regardless of what one wants to say about her and whether she's taking cosplay too far, it's not really right for people to say she has all of the proverbial anime aesthetics down in this one appearance as the mainstream media has made it out to be. If anything, she looks like a copy of perhaps one of Matsumoto Leiji-sensei's characters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group