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REVIEW: Black Bird GN 1


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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Central Coast
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:32 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the cover makes it look like he's raping her?? 8O


I'll be honest, it makes me want to buy it. I kind of dislike the fact that the series is ongoing and doesn't look like it's ending anytime soon. Shoujo manga IS ALMOST NEVER great beyond the fifth volume.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9892
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:41 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
And did you notice how Roger Ebert gets to watch movies before they open in theaters?

I don't read his reviews. Razz

vashfanatic wrote:
Presumably ANN is sent material ahead of time so that there can be reviews out there when the manga/anime is released.

Haw haw haw. Teaching a cat how to "meow"? Laughing

vashfanatic wrote:
It's good publicity.

There you are. Wink
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liannesentar



Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:40 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
Quote:
Of the three major Japanese manga publishers, Shougakukan has been struggling the most of late in the shoujo manga genre. They simply do not have anything on the order of Kodansha's Nakayoshi or Shuueisha's Ribon.

You forgot the magazine that outsold Nakayoshi and Ribon combined.


Wait. Ciao outsold Ribon and Nakayoshi combined? When? How? Was it a single issue? Please cite, because you just blew my mind.
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Cait



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 503
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:24 pm Reply with quote
This book sounds deliciously decadent and I don't even like fantasy. Will have to check it out.

Anyway, what is up with the constant peanut anti-reviewer gallery? Yeah, seriously, reviewing manga is a matter of taste, preference and subjective opinion. Griping every time a reviewer says something you don't agree with is an exercise in futility. Reviews are a guideline to help some people figure out what is worth trying or not (without resorting to illegally obtaining the work). You can go to any number of other sites on the internet and get any number of other opinions on any work and weigh them against each other. The wealth of differing opinions is only a benefit. It means more of a chance of finding someone whose tastes align with yours.

Sometimes I agree with Casey, but a lot of times I don't. I don't get pissy about it when she says things I don't agree with. Instead of insulting the reviewer, how about we try picking apart the review itself? Some evidence in support of our difference of opinion? I'm tired of opening review comment threads and seeing this junk. She isn't attacking you, or your taste in manga, despite what you might like to believe. She is writing about her own impressions/opinions in a self-assured writing style (the style of professionals). Write your own reviews if you don't agree with her so much you can't stand it.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4796
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Cait wrote:
She isn't attacking you, or your taste in manga, despite what you might like to believe. She is writing about her own impressions/opinions in a self-assured writing style (the style of professionals).


Well, seeing her latest review with Clover....

Quote:
the story is not exactly the greatest ever to issue forth from Studio CLAMP, and anyone not under the overheated, hormone-induced reverie unique to adolescents (and drug addicts) should agree.


If that isn't an attack on a reader, a person's taste in manga, and a rather unprofessional remark to top it all off well then, I don't know what you mean by attacking a reader or their taste in manga. Either way, Casey is the only ANN reviewer whose reviews I'm now going to avoid unless I absolutely love the title she's reviewing. If that's the case and I totally disagree, then I'll not hold back my comments.
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Cait



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 503
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:26 pm Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:


Quote:
the story is not exactly the greatest ever to issue forth from Studio CLAMP, and anyone not under the overheated, hormone-induced reverie unique to adolescents (and drug addicts) should agree.


If that isn't an attack on a reader, a person's taste in manga, and a rather unprofessional remark to top it all off well then, I don't know what you mean by attacking a reader or their taste in manga.


I'll be brief because this issue is of a different topic that I would prefer not get dragged about the forum.

What "reader" is she attacking, exactly? It's a jab, for sure, but an "attack?" Please. She liked the book, despite this comment. She was simply saying that unless a person likes the melodrama (and it is a fact that more adolescents like the "overly dramatic" than adults) they'll likely agree that it wasn't CLAMP's best work. (and although I have yet to read it, it probably isn't) Hardly something worth getting up in arms over, even if her choice of words wasn't exactly "kind." I thought it was rather humorous, personally, but maybe I have a thicker skin than some.

Quote:
Either way, Casey is the only ANN reviewer whose reviews I'm now going to avoid unless I absolutely love the title she's reviewing. If that's the case and I totally disagree, then I'll not hold back my comments.


If you "absolutely love" a title that Casey may in the future review, why would you, given your clearly stated opinion of her, go out of your way to read her review of it? Setting aside the fact that reading a review for a title you already have an opinion about is counter-productive (a continual issue among review readers on Amazon that irritates me), if you are going to "avoid" someone's reviews, do it. Don't go halfway unless you are willing to admit a desire to engage in open conflict with this person over your differences in opinion or perceptions of having been personally insulted.

I'll say it again, if you have such a serious problem with someone else's opinion, offer a different one. In the case of a review, offer a different reviewer's or your own review. Nothing is going to change because the same handful of people post "complaints" on the forum every time a particular reviewer posts a review.

To me, it's a waste of my time wading past all the people who clearly have a bias about the reviewer and are not contributing a voice to the review or the product. I want constructive criticism, that's why I open these threads. I want an insight into another person's opinion of the product, and if their opinion is of the review itself, I want to know more than just that they have a problem with it. I want to hear why and I want a counter-argument, and I want it to be free of the unecessary personal attacks that plague review complaints on these forums. If that's what you mean by "not holding back" your comments, by all means do so. I will surely enjoy reading them.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4796
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:52 pm Reply with quote
Really? Not on topic at all? I was under the impression I was very much on topic. I was responding to you comment on Casey where you said she’s professional, she isn't attacking me, or my taste in manga, despite what I might like to believe, etc, etc. I disagreed and posted an example of where she IS attacking the reader, their taste in manga, and behaving rather unprofessional in a review.

Casey wrote:
The story is not exactly the greatest ever to issue forth from Studio CLAMP, and anyone not under the overheated, hormone-induced reverie unique to adolescents (and drug addicts) should agree.


How is that statement not an attack on any reader who doesn’t agree with Casey’s opinion. It’s a childish comment basically going “look at me! I’m so clever! I have this opinion, and if you don’t agree you’re an adolescent being driven by hormones or a drug addict!” You cannot tell me that interpretation is not what she meant unless you’re Casey herself parading under some random forum account. It was a snarky comment, not at all helping her critique while at the same time expressing personal feelings about CLAMP fans. Anyone on the forum familiar with me over the years knows I’m a CLAMP fan, and though I may had once been a hormonal driven teenager, I have not been for a number of years now, nor am I a drug addict. However according to Casey, since I don’t agree, I MUST be one of those.

That was a serious assumption about the reader, and hence why I think Casey is unprofessional outside of what I see as her biased opinions. This is my opinion.

I respect opinions, and that’s part of the reason why I read ANN reviews. I’ve just noticed after years of reading various ANN reviews, Casey is the only reviewer I’ve ever downright disliked. I think her style is over-pretentious and most of the time the ratings she gives tend to be downright illogical, but that’s my opinion. Usually when I don’t agree with a reviewer, I just roll my eyes and move on. I’ve never felt the need to say anything about any reviewer outside of “great review” here and there until Casey made that remark about CLAMP fans. I don’t understand why you are so defensive over my comment on someone else, but I hope you can respect my opinion.

Next to address your question as to why I even bother commenting in the first place on reviews I don’t agree with, do you REALLY need to ask that? For the sake of this argument I’m going to assume you’re new to the forum scene, or at least ANN.

ANN is first off, an anime/manga news website which, as you know posts news on anime/manga, this includes reviews. People come to this website because they more than likely take an interest in anime and manga, and may even think of it as a hobby. People use hobbys to pass time and entertain themselves, hence why I come to ANN and waste time one their forums while at work and home. (I know, it's sad) I use the forums to partake in discussions about my hobby, and I absolutely adore discussions on my favorite anime/manga titles. Now with that in mind, each and every review posted on ANN is connected to the forum so that discussion concerning the review (Genius in my opinion. Absolutely loved it when it was implemented!) can happen.

With this is mind now when you come onto the main page of ANN, you’re faced with the side panel with all those lovely little announcements and reviews. Unfortunately, they don’t straight out say on the front-page exactly WHO has done the review (This is good for Casey in her case with me) so it’s a mystery until you click on that link. If I click on a review and Casey’s name pops up, I think “What the heck? I already clicked on it, might as well read” because that is what people do on the internet. We’re here to waste time and entertain ourselves. In this case it’s getting to be similar to my habit of turning on Fox News when I’m bored beyond belief with nothing else to watch, all in the hopes of getting a laugh. Sometimes, though very rarely, Casey makes me laugh. Though I’m pretty sure what I’m laughing at is unintentionally funny only to me.

Now you accuse me to wanting to take part in open conflict with the reviewer by reading reviews to a title I’ve already read and going to the thread in the forum. Sorry you have such a malicious opinion of what I do, but this is not the case. I’ve mentioned before that my CLAMP comment on Casey is the first negative comment I have ever made directed at an ANN reviewer in all my time of visiting this site. 99% of the time when I respond to a review thread on this site concerning a title I’ve already read/watched it is to discuss the title, not the review. Why on earth would I do this? Because I’m on a forum which means I’m out to partake in discussion. Contrary to what you may be here for in this thread (I’m assuming an argument) I’m just here to state a problem I had with a reviewer, one I hope she takes to heart next time she tries to get clever by insulting a fan following in her next review.

Glad I could help you understand how threads on ANN work, and why most people are on forums to begin with.
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Cait



Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 503
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Wow, well, I need to step back here, because I have clearly stepped over a line somewhere. I'm sorry that my previous post to you has clearly upset you so much. I didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you.

I very clearly did not mean to assume that my comments concerning the Clover review were unrelated to this discussion, simply that it was a topic best left to the Clover review thread, and not to other threads in this forum. I'm sorry you took that statement as an attack on your supportive evidence concerning the issue; it was not my intention.

I'm neither "new" to ANN (I registered with the forum last spring but was a lurker around here for years beforehand) nor "new" to the internet. I've been an active forumer on many forums and communities on the internet for over ten years, and I personally don't appreciate the insinuation that because I disagree with your impression of the issue, that I must "just not get it" or am a "newb." Please, I want to have a rational conversation with you about this. I don't want an argument about each other to come up over this issue.

You're a big CLAMP fan, I get that now. I wasn't aware of that fact before you mentioned it just now, but now I am. This issue clearly hits close to home for you then. But I have to tell you, that so am I. I've been a member of CLAMP fandom since I first got into Tokyo Babylon/X over five years ago. In fact, it was one of my very first fandoms (along with Gravitation). I'm perhaps not as emotionally invested in their works as you may be, but I am so nevertheless.

I'm not Casey. I've had discussions with Casey in the past, but I am not her. I don't agree with all her reviews or interests/ideas (I can name two off-hand that irk me), but I honestly have never felt slighted by something she said, the Clover review included. You clearly do. I'm sorry that I have to disagree with you on the nature of the insult that Casey has allegedly perpetrated with this review, but I simply don't agree that it was really that bad.

My entire issue wasn't even with you at all. It was with the whole year of having to read the griping of forumers every time they read a review they didn't agree with, or felt personally insulted by the opinions of others. This particular instance/reviewer aside, I can hope that you at least agree with me on my points concerning constructive criticism. If you really feel so strongly about Casey as you seem to, I recommend writing something directly to ANN staff and not to this forum, where words of critique come off far more easily as words of contempt and get ignored.

Anyway, I was going to take this conversation to PM, but I did want to get those apologies out to you publicly. We can continue this discussion here, or we can do the rest of it privately. I will leave that up to you.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9892
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:28 am Reply with quote
liannesentar wrote:
Wait. Ciao outsold Ribon and Nakayoshi combined? When? How? Was it a single issue? Please cite, because you just blew my mind.

Ciao has outsold Nakayosi and Ribon combined for several years. I have several Japanese and English sources; this is just one of them.



100.9 > 41.9 + 40.0


Newer data from Japan Magazine Publishers Association (JMPA): http://www.j-magazine.or.jp/data_001/woman_5.html
JMPA wrote:
Ciao: 930,834
Nakayosi: 343,750
Ribon: 330,000



ADDENDUM: I just noticed that you also asked "how." I can't give you a firm answer (after all I'm not their target reader and I only read those magazines casually, let alone buying them), but I can tell you that Ciao has more "artificial flavoring" in it: stories are even less realistic and sugary, but if Japanese young girls love them that would be their own choice. Couple years ago Ribon wanted to replicate Ciao's success and lowered the age group of its target (thus several of my favorite Ribon mangaka "graduated" to older magazines e.g. Margaret, Cookie and Chorus), yet the strategy was not successful; Ribon loses many loyal old fans (who grew up with Ribon and are adult women now) yet couldn't attract substantial younger fans due to low birth rate in Japan.


Cait wrote:
She is writing about her own impressions/opinions in a self-assured writing style (the style of professionals).

A professional wouldn't write down the following comment: "Of the three major Japanese manga publishers, Shougakukan has been struggling the most of late in the shoujo manga genre." Let's see the numbers:

Shogakukan: 5 magazines, 1,460,441 volumes
Shueisha: 5 magazines, 1,104,661 volumes
Hakusensha: 4 magazines, 594,501 volumes
Kodansha: 2 magazines, 457,167 volumes
Kadokawa Group Publishing (Kadokawa Shoten): 1 magazine, 42,834 volumes

Casey is 100% entitled to have her opinions, no matter how unpopular they might be, but getting simple facts wrong only makes her reviews less trustworthy.
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gekkou1neko



Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:32 pm Reply with quote
(I know this review was written a while ago...) Anyone wanting to read this manga should take note: It doesn't really have a whole lot related to the what looks like a rapist Kyo on the front. I just finished reading volume 3 (it finally made its way into my bookstore Very Happy) and I think the only actual things that were kinda bad were when Kyo's brother tries to rape Misao in volume 2. Otherwise, the manga is mainly Kyo and Misao kissing and Misao getting attacked. Though volume 3's cover kind of disturbed me......
Hmm, I think I just joined the site to post this Wonder if the other volumes have reviews. Smile
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