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How do you feel about American cartoons


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How would you describe your relationship with cartoons
Love them
22%
 22%  [ 46 ]
Like them
29%
 29%  [ 59 ]
Indifferent towards them
15%
 15%  [ 32 ]
Dislike most of them (there are a few exceptions)
23%
 23%  [ 48 ]
Hate them (won't touch any of them)
7%
 7%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 201

Author Message
CosmicRage



Joined: 03 Mar 2013
Posts: 34
Location: SoDak
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:20 pm Reply with quote
I liked them growing up lol. The old batman cartoon from the early 90's still holds up today, I'd still sit down and watch that. I do like Archer too. I would agree that they are either geared towards kids or they are like family guy and more vulgar, that includes Archer.

I know a lot of people that like adventure time but I have yet to check it out.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1767
Location: South America
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:18 pm Reply with quote
Lavnovice9 wrote:
@Jose Cruz
I find those points very interesting! I find anime makes more of an impression as it has a lot more care put into it. You can usually tell from the art style alone they put their all into the works. And if they mess up during the TV airing, the blu-rays and DVDs are more than willing to go back and re-animated and touch up the art and animation. I do not know of any American cartoons which do that, they tend to leave animation errors in on the DVDs, if it is ever released on DVD. I also believe it helps anime has a much more dedicated and creative community to help it stay with you! The amount of doujinshi created for series is amazing and so far the American fanbase has yet to do anything for their medium like that for even their supposed biggest shows. It's more fun when the fanbase is creative and has such talent to do those things. Leaving shows as memorable journies into another world.


One important thing to understand is that in the United States and Western Europe animation is generally not taken seriously as an art form. Almost nothing produced in the West in terms of animation compares with the top notch of their films. But the top notch of anime reaches true artistic greatness.

In the West there are animation shorts by the likes of Yuri Norstein and Frederick Back that attain artistic sophistication, but these shorts fail in terms of entertainment and in terms of storytelling.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1767
Location: South America
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 11:48 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Tempest"]
CrowLia wrote:
CrowLia, the comparison is completely unfair. You can't make the comparison between anime and American cartoons as a whole by simply comparing the two titles you picked to best suit your argument. (And as has been pointed out, you don't seem to know the technical difference between art and animation, Spongebob is technically better animated than the Macross music video, it's very easy to see if you know what you're looking for).


That depends on your definition of technical quality of the animation.

In my book the best 2D animation ever is the animation in later major Ghibli films (Princess Mononoke onwards). The physical realism and level of detail of the animation is something amazing to behold, such as the part where Chihiro's gives a bath to the stink spirit, the sheer display of technical virtuosity of scenes like that always leaves my mouth open. The Disney movies (the best 2D quality in American animation) have higher framerates (Ghibli films usually work on a rate of 1,000 to 1,100 frames per minute, Disney, on 1,440 frames per minute) but they lack the physical realism and level of detail: movement is smooth but lacks realism, instead the characters move like balloons filled with water, without any structure. That animation is inconsistent, in a way.

Akira also has a smother animation than Ghibli's films and is about as smooth as Disney's, but it also lacks that level of physical realism of movement that Ghibli achieves (look at the interaction between the wind and Chihiro's clothing in Spirited Away, or the scene when she puts her sneakers and press the sneaker into her feet when she is meting Haku outside of the bathhouse, that high level of care and detail paid to the subtle elements of the film and the overall level of physical realism achieved are awe inspiring, I never watched anything as impressive in an western animation).

Quote:
Obviously most people on ANN are going to prefer anime, and the reason is rather straight forward (although most anime fans are completely oblivious to it), there is not a significant amount of TV animation made for teens and young adults in North America.


No? South Park, Family Guy, Simpsons, American Dad, The Cleveland Show, King of the Hill, Archer, etc, are among the many animated TV series made for people over the age of 12.

There is a lack of serious drama and art-house animated TV series made in the West, though.

In the West drama TV is left for live action and, possibly, there isn't any actual TV series made in North America that can be considered a work of art while in TV anime we have stuff like Madoka and Evangelion, which are beautiful works of art that go beyond entertainment.

Quote:
You like anime because it was made for you. You don't like Spongebob because it wasn't made for you.


When I was a kid I liked Spongebob and Dragonball. But I only loved Dragonball. That's because Dragonball tried to reach for high notes of dramatic intensity, while Spongebob didn't. Both TV series are made for kids, but only the anime series takes itself seriously.

Overall, I think that Japanese cinema overall takes itself more seriously than Hollywood cinema. Japanese films have a force and purity that is lacking in Hollywood films, who, generally, takes themselves more as disposable entertainment. In animation this discrepancy becomes extremely obvious. I think that this is a cultural thing: Japan is a more serious culture than the US, so their cultural products also tend to take themselves more seriously.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:24 am Reply with quote
Jose Cruz wrote:
That's because Dragonball tried to reach for high notes of dramatic intensity, while Spongebob didn't. Both TV series are made for kids, but only the anime series takes itself seriously.


Dragonball? Come on man. This is where people like you exasperate me. I mean lets get real here. Dragonball is a kids show. It's not some tour de force of drama and artistic expression. It's a show about glowing monkey men from outer space punching holes in planets. It does not take itself especially seriously. And that's fine. I like the Dragonball franchise. It's fun. Heck, it even has a few genuinely neat bits. But let's not pretend it's significantly different from one of the many western cartoons for kids. It is perhaps relatively more serious than Spongebob, but that's a silly comparison anyway. Spongebob is obviously a comedy. A more apt comparison would be Dragonball to one of the many action/adventure western cartoons. In which case it really isn't any more serious.

Look, you're not wrong about serious adult animation. Aside from art-house stuff (which is strictly limited to film and tends to be lacking in entertainment value and narrative) you really don't see non-comedic, truly adult oriented stuff in western animation. There just aren't shows like Evangelion or Madoka Magica out west. And that's why I love anime. I love that it provides the kind of entirely adult show that I just can't find elsewhere. And to that end, I'm all for giving anime credit for being superior in this particular respect. But it makes me shake my head that somehow that always has to turn into "But also, their silly kids cartoons are better than western silly kids cartoons".
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MajinSaga



Joined: 27 Apr 2013
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:38 pm Reply with quote
I still love them. I'll never understand anime purists who dislike American animation, simply because it's American. There are still various American cartoons that completely crap all over most anime like The Lion King, Snow White, The Simpsons (in their prime), Avatar: The Last Airbender, Batman: TAS, Justice League, etc. I still enjoy shows like Adventure Time, Regular Show, South Park, etc. There's no reason other than being a complete weeaboo to limit yourself. And from time to time, even animated series's from other countries.
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Lost_Shy_One



Joined: 26 Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Location: Nowhere
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Actually, anime is more or less the same as American cartoons.. I notice that most anime these days are getting more stupid every year like American cartoons. Just saying.
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GokTengri



Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Izmir, Turkey
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:25 am Reply with quote
I loved them, especially in its golden age associated with Fox Kids. Though I've enjoyed some of the new series such as Avatar and Gumball as well.
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Wandering Samurai



Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 875
Location: USA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:51 pm Reply with quote
I grew up on American cartoons before I ended up getting into anime. Shows like the original TMNT and the Disney afternoon were some of the greatest shows. Add in Batman the Animated series, such a great time for cartoons. Not big on Spongebob, looks completely idiotic.
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jay19



Joined: 19 Oct 2015
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:36 am Reply with quote
I like American cartoons but not so much. Japanese cartoons are better.
They are better in terms of story line and also the works are much more better when made in japan. Cute characters and cute costumes too! Smile American cartoons are kind of boring sometimes.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 1767
Location: South America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:06 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Jose Cruz wrote:
That's because Dragonball tried to reach for high notes of dramatic intensity, while Spongebob didn't. Both TV series are made for kids, but only the anime series takes itself seriously.


Dragonball? Come on man. This is where people like you exasperate me. I mean lets get real here. Dragonball is a kids show. It's not some tour de force of drama and artistic expression. It's a show about glowing monkey men from outer space punching holes in planets. It does not take itself especially seriously. And that's fine. I like the Dragonball franchise. It's fun. Heck, it even has a few genuinely neat bits. But let's not pretend it's significantly different from one of the many western cartoons for kids. It is perhaps relatively more serious than Spongebob, but that's a silly comparison anyway. Spongebob is obviously a comedy. A more apt comparison would be Dragonball to one of the many action/adventure western cartoons. In which case it really isn't any more serious.


Its similar to Avatar and Korra, American Clones of it. But I didn't have those when I was a kid in 1999. In 1999 the most serious American animated show I knew was Batman: The Animated series, however it's episodic nature prevented it from building up or epic proportions like Dragonball did. Again, I am talking about my 10 year old self. Dragonball made me jump out of the sofa while Western stuff was only amusing. And of course to make me jump out of the sofa the show must have been serious, even though it's funny from my current perspective. The over the top exaggeration and the epicness of it made it so fun.

In Japan, Dragonball has the same cultural significance as Star Wars in the US. There isn't any cartoons in the west like Star Wars.

Also, yes Dragonball is more serious and violent than any American cartoon ever made. Proof?

https://youtu.be/Y5YgHX3s_ss

https://youtu.be/FE4armHcAm8

The animation is also pretty good for TV in those scenes. High level of detail and physical realism in fact.

Quote:
There just aren't shows like Evangelion or Madoka Magica out west. And that's why I love anime. I love that it provides the kind of entirely adult show that I just can't find elsewhere. And to that end, I'm all for giving anime credit for being superior in this particular respect. But it makes me shake my head that somehow that always has to turn into "But also, their silly kids cartoons are better than western silly kids cartoons".


Evangelion was made for kids like Dragonball, Digimon and Spongebob, actually. So it counts as a silly kids cartoon. Same with Spirited Away.
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eikinasai



Joined: 20 Feb 2020
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:43 pm Reply with quote
i can use simple words to express my feelings
Colorful, three-dimensional, exciting
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Myrick



Joined: 24 Dec 2021
Posts: 16
Location: Reno, Nevada
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:30 pm Reply with quote
They're silly but I get why kids like them. Problem is their target audience is very narrow whereas anime may also target the older generation.
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EmperorThor



Joined: 03 Dec 2023
Posts: 11
Location: Ivory Tower
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 5:18 am Reply with quote
depends on series

There are some very good ones, such as 1994 Spiderman

However many are horrible, especially more modern ones
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gsilver



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 611
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 5:20 pm Reply with quote
Lots of good ones in recent years, across a spectrum of genres and demographics. I'm including western anime in general, and not just the US.

Hilda
Bojack Horseman
Adventure Time
Fiona and Cake
Steven Universe
The Midnight Gospel
Castlevania
South Park
Rick & Morty
The Owl House
The Secret of Kells
Song of the Sea
Wolfwalkers (and if you haven't watched this one, oh my god, get on that!)
Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts
Samurai Jack Final Season
Primal
Moral Orel
Bob's Burgers

Just out of ones that I've watched recent-ish, and I haven't even gotten close to watching all the ones I want to, having not caught up on recent Pixar films, many of the big action shows like Blue Eye Samurai, Puss in Boots: The Last Wish, or the second Spider-Verse film.

I grew up watching tons of the classics, Tom & Jerry and Looney Tunes, plus the then-contemporary Animaniacs, Tiny Toon Adventures, Batman The Animated Series, Gargoyles, Doug, Hey Arnold, Duckman, Ducktales, Tale Spin, Darkwing Duck, and a whole slew of Disney, Pixar, and Don Bluth theatrical films.
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gsilver



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 611
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:08 pm Reply with quote
I also have to add that one thing that I feel that western cartoons are able to consistently do that anime especially fails at, especially in recent years, is original long-form storytelling. How often do you get an original, complete story that's longer than 12 episodes?

Virtually every longer anime is based on an even longer manga or light novel, which brings the limitations and conventions of those media, rather than anything specific to animation, and even then is rarely a complete adaptation. Something that does tell a longer story from start to finish, like Attack on Titan, is a rarity, and one that isn't adapted from another medium is far rarer.

Even just looking at anime, it was far more common to see 26 or 52 episode original stories in years past, compared to the single season anime of today, and, yes, almost all of them are an adaptation of another medium. Of course, some older shows really didn't need as many episodes as they got, but that's another issue.

Just looking at one of my favorite directors, Kunihiko Ikuhara. In the 90s, he was able to make the anime-first, 39 episode Revolutionary Girl Utena, and it was a masterpiece. 2011's Penguindrum was anime original, but only 24 episodes. By 2019, with Sarazanmai, he was only able to get 11 episodes.
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