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The Mike Toole Show - Can't Fight Fate


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OtakuKitten



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:23 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
OtakuKitten wrote:

spoiler[
Why is King Arthur (Saber) a woman?]


Because she is.

Literally, thats the reason. Its an interesting plot twist, and is well integrated with the lore of the universe.

You may as well ask why Medusa, Medea and Heracles are "real" in this universe while Sasaki Koujiro is "fictional". Its just the way things are.


But even with Medusa, Medea, and the others they stick so closely to the stories from our world that it feels out of place when they alter the formula that they have been using. Surely there is a great female monarch out there they could have used just as well.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:25 pm Reply with quote
OtakuKitten wrote:

Surely there is a great female monarch out there they could have used just as well.


Name one.

Anyway, the original plan had a male saber and a female protagonist, but when they made the protagonist male, they genderswapped Saber.

I really don't think its that big a deal, honestly. And adds an interesting twist to a very well trod story.
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Hellfish



Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:25 pm Reply with quote
Cd Japan only has games for vita and psp... I just a pc version... one day I hope, one day.
At least I can see legally fate zero with crunchyroll (people I live in Mexico, things like Hulu and most streams don't work here.)
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Tsuki_no_Karasu



Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:37 pm Reply with quote
To reply to Otakukitten, this is something I remember coming across years ago when I first got into Type-Moon and the original VNs. But Nasu's original version of Fate/stay night was with a male Saber and a female Shirou (check the recent short animation Fate/Prototype). However because of the themes he wanted to tackle, namely heroism and the desire to become a hero, and because the setting of strong male protector and weak female protectie is so overused; he wanted to make the character in Shirou's place a male.

Basically instead of a malexmale pair, having a malexfemale pair is both more exciting and enjoyable for the reader. So as for why Saber is female, if I'm remembering this correctly, it has to do with the fact Shirou's character is male. And in my opinion Nasu does a great job fitting this gender-bending in the Arthurian Legends. Hope this helps.
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OtakuKitten



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:42 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
OtakuKitten wrote:

Surely there is a great female monarch out there they could have used just as well.


Name one.

Anyway, the original plan had a male saber and a female protagonist, but when they made the protagonist male, they genderswapped Saber.

I really don't think its that big a deal, honestly. And adds an interesting twist to a very well trod story.


Catherine the Great of Germany, Hatshepsut of Egypt, Hypalita of the Amazons.
To be honest before the twist I thought she was Joan of Arch.

But let me just say there was never an anomosity in my previous posts, I was honestly trying to understand. Obviously this show is not for me.
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OtakuKitten



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:47 pm Reply with quote
Tsuki_no_Karasu wrote:
To reply to Otakukitten, this is something I remember coming across years ago when I first got into Type-Moon and the original VNs. But Nasu's original version of Fate/stay night was with a male Saber and a female Shirou (check the recent short animation Fate/Prototype). However because of the themes he wanted to tackle, namely heroism and the desire to become a hero, and because the setting of strong male protector and weak female protectie is so overused; he wanted to make the character in Shirou's place a male.

Basically instead of a malexmale pair, having a malexfemale pair is both more exciting and enjoyable for the reader. So as for why Saber is female, if I'm remembering this correctly, it has to do with the fact Shirou's character is male. And in my opinion Nasu does a great job fitting this gender-bending in the Arthurian Legends. Hope this helps.


I was in no way trying to say that Nasu had done a poor job. In fact I really like the set up and the idea of the battle every so many years with summoned fighters. I didn't know about the change because I was only casually aware of the series but now that I have that knowledge it does answer the question that I had.

I don't know if I will ever go back to this series. I might check out the OVA that Mike mentioned though.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:59 pm Reply with quote
If you want to be specific and just go for British Women why not have Boudica be Saber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

You dont need to go for the absurd King Arthur was really a cute girl angle.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:02 am Reply with quote
It's fine, we already have Nero as the best Saber.
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OtakuKitten



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:02 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
If you want to be specific and just go for British Women why not have Boudica be Saber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica

You don't need to go for the absurd King Arthur was really a cute girl angle.


Oh man! I didn't think about her! She would make an awesome champion.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:06 am Reply with quote
They need to make a third one were its revealed that the new Saber is General Patton who was really a cute 16 year old Japanese school girl who valiantly fought off the lesbian with Big tits General Rommel who is Archer in this version.
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OtakuKitten



Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:12 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
They need to make a third one were its revealed that the new Saber is General Patton who was really a cute 16 year old Japanese school girl who valiantly fought off the lesbian with Big tits General Rommel who is Archer in this version.


LOL!!! Holly crap dude i can't stop laughing!
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:50 am Reply with quote
Something people need to remember is that the power of a heroic spirit is related to the sort of renown they have in the world. So, some of the names mentioned for Saber wouldn't work because they're not as popular as who Saber actually is: they lack the renown of the King of Knights, and they wouldn't have as ridiculously overpowered a noble phantasm as Saber's. ;P
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:24 am Reply with quote
The point is that Type Moon had several options for a kickbutt female who was you know an actual female.
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Seif



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 456
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:33 am Reply with quote
Quote:

To be honest before the twist I thought she was Joan of Arch.


So did everyone.
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 3011
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:38 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
The point is that Type Moon had several options for a kickbutt female who was you know an actual female.


And they created one. (Well, there are some issues with Saber's characterization, but not like that would have changed had she been a different figure.) Regardless, Saber is female.

Honestly, what the &**& does it matter that Saber is based on a legendary figure that most believe is male? Why would Saber being someone from history/legend who was known as female have improved the story?
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