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NEWS: Harmony Gold Founder/Robotech Producer Sentenced for Tax Fraud


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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:56 pm Reply with quote
Good, now if only someone could get Tatsunoko and Big West to play nice.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8180
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:01 pm Reply with quote
So I guess without extradition to Italy, the Italians haven't got a hope in hell of getting that money from Agrama, unless they put a lien on HG profits, (do they have any?) which could then bankrupt the company. But knowing how Italian justice works they haven't got a hope in hell of actually locking Berlusconi up, let alone collecting any monies from any of them. Italy is just as corrupt and bankrupt as Greece. Rolling Eyes
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Buster D



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:55 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
Sunday Silence wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
I miss the man, but I'm almost glad that the late, great Carl Macek didn't have to see this unfortunate turn of events in the life of a colleague of his.


He's as much to blame for the whole debacle of the handling of the Robotech license as anyone else.


Then why don't you go after the person in Japan that screwed up the Japanese dub of Beast Wars (where that show became a Japanese equivalent of a 4kid heavily edited anime).

[/quote]

LOL, like anybody in the US gives a fudge about what the Japanese do to kids' shows when they air over there. Not to mention the fact that no scenes were actually cut in the Beast Wars TV series, the LDs/DVDs were still bilingual, and all future Transformers series still came out in Japan, unlike Robotech and a lot of 4Kids stuff.
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GeorgeC



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 793
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:16 am Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:
Can he run the company from prison though? A deep dark part of me wants this to cause Harmony Gold to collapse so that I can own Macross Frontier and they can stop roadblocking the franchise.


Your knowledge of the legal quagmire that is the Macross property is shockingly flawed...

You have no idea what's going on and honestly believe too much of what you read on the Internet...

No conspiracy here... Tatsunoko and Big West are the primary litigants in the Macross legal mess. Tatsunoko licensed the ORIGINAL Macross series footage to HG legally. HG has to maintain its Robotech copyright which is why the legal action over imported (original) Macross toys. What part of copyright protection don't you understand? Oh I forgot! This is the Internet and everything comes without a price! The real world begs to differ...


bj_waters wrote:
I dunno. I read this article and I just don't see how this will impact Robotech or Macross. I'm not saying this shouldn't be on ANN, but rather that one shouldn't get their hopes up about "freeing the license." I could be wrong, but I just don't see how this will change things in relation to the franchise.


It won't... Thank goodness you're being reasonable and seeing the bigger picture here. I wish we could say the same for "Sparky" above and his chums!


Sunday Silence wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
I miss the man, but I'm almost glad that the late, great Carl Macek didn't have to see this unfortunate turn of events in the life of a colleague of his.


He's as much to blame for the whole debacle of the handling of the Robotech license as anyone else.


Grow up already! Seriously, Carl had nothing to do with the legal mess. Carl was an employee of HG and DIDN'T control the license! IT'S THE JAPANESE WHO AREN'T ALLOWING ANY MORE MACROSS TO BE LICENSED FOR RELEASE IN THE WEST! It amazes me that almost 30 years later [insult removed] like you are still bitching about things you don't understand. What's sad is that you're probably not even old enough to remember when Robotech was first broadcast and are hating it because it's "cool to hate English dubs and adaptations." You don't appreciate the circumstances under which Robotech came into being because you most likely weren't alive back in 1985!

When people try to explain these things, you automatically put your hands over your ears and go, "La lala lalalaalala" like a [insult removed]!

Some were also demented enough back when Carl was still alive to actually threaten the lives of both Carl and his wife. Macek adapted Macross as close as he was allowed to in the timeframe and broadcast atmosphere which existed back in 1985... Things were totally different back then. Unfortunately, with the restrictive time frames which exist now, lack of syndication opportunities outside of the networks that exist today, AND because of fans like you, Robotech couldn't happen today. There are many reasons why otaku are mocked and sneered at in non-anime circles; the worst anime fans constantly provide ammo for the non-fans...!

You literalists/purists can't get over the fact that the classic dubbed adaptations have sold far better than any of the post-1980s translations! The localizations of Speed Racer, Star Blazers, and Voltron (Lion Force) have sold many times over the sales levels of the hybrid releases of post-80s anime releases have. People at large aren't interested in the trivial details that obsess otaku. They want entertainment in their language at a price that's affordable; anime is fringe product and has unfortunately priced itself out of the budget of even many hardcore animation fans. Furthermore, the behavior of otaku has discouraged many otherwise open-minded individuals from sampling an artform they would otherwise probably enjoy. The basic details of business and polite behavior escape the worst anime fans I've run across in 20+ years of enjoying the art form. At times, you guys DESERVE a good ass-kicking!

Guess what? Macross didn't come over here because of a huge upswell of Macross fans in the US! It was brought over because of interest in the series which was generated BY Robotech! Ditto for Southern Cross and Mospeada. (And no, it's not your imagination... Robotech Masters sucks because Southern Cross sucked in the first place! Had nothing to do with the English adaptation... even the English adaptation couldn't salvage much from Southern Cross!)

And btw, the Macross subs didn't sell anywhere near what the Robotech DVDs did... Face it -- guys like you are in minority -- thankfully! Had Robotech sold poorly, those Macross, Mospeada, and Southern Cross DVD sets would NEVER have been released in the West.

And FYI, I like BOTH Macross and Robotech. Appreciation of both series is not mutually exclusive. Too bad the fanboys like you can't get that through your skulls. You just have to have things YOUR way and can't let other fans appreciate the efforts of the people who are actually working to make these shows able to be appreciated more than 10 people!
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bj_waters



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:40 am Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:
bj_waters wrote:
I dunno. I read this article and I just don't see how this will impact Robotech or Macross. I'm not saying this shouldn't be on ANN, but rather that one shouldn't get their hopes up about "freeing the license." I could be wrong, but I just don't see how this will change things in relation to the franchise.


A man is allowed to dream, is he not?


Why, he most certainly is. I mean, if you had told me a year ago that Samurai Pizza Cats was definitely coming to DVD, I would have called you stark raving mad (still waiting, Diskotek). I'm just simply saying that these events don't change the dream very much.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7896
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:27 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Your knowledge of the legal quagmire that is the Macross property is shockingly flawed...

You have no idea what's going on and honestly believe too much of what you read on the Internet...

No conspiracy here... Tatsunoko and Big West are the primary litigants in the Macross legal mess. Tatsunoko licensed the ORIGINAL Macross series footage to HG legally. HG has to maintain its Robotech copyright which is why the legal action over imported (original) Macross toys. What part of copyright protection don't you understand? Oh I forgot! This is the Internet and everything comes without a price! The real world begs to differ...


Well, you're just some guy on the internet too, I guess I should just take your advice and not believe you either. Laughing
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TokyoGetter



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 416
Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:16 am Reply with quote
Gee... I wonder if GeorgeC had an axe to grind or something?
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Ryo Hazuki



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 355
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:39 am Reply with quote
GeorgeC wrote:

No conspiracy here... Tatsunoko and Big West are the primary litigants in the Macross legal mess. Tatsunoko licensed the ORIGINAL Macross series footage to HG legally. HG has to maintain its Robotech copyright which is why the legal action over imported (original) Macross toys. What part of copyright protection don't you understand? Oh I forgot! This is the Internet and everything comes without a price! The real world begs to differ...


Didn't Harmony Gold also go after the Macross Plus toys and want their share in profits of the Macross 7 Trash manga, which Tokyopop was going to publish? Big West gave Tatsunoko only the international distribution and merchandising rights, not the sequel rights.

Harmony Gold USA has trademarked the name Macross and the UN Spacy logo, which to my knowledge is the main reason why no Macross anime/manga has been licensed in America or many other countries.

GeorgeC wrote:
And btw, the Macross subs didn't sell anywhere near what the Robotech DVDs did... Face it -- guys like you are in minority -- thankfully! Had Robotech sold poorly, those Macross, Mospeada, and Southern Cross DVD sets would NEVER have been released in the West.


By which name Macross had its TV release: Macross or Robotech?
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:46 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
He's as much to blame for the whole debacle of the handling of the Robotech license as anyone else.

I wish people didn't come down hard of Carl. I'm sure it was as hard for him as for the people who couldn't trust just 36 episodes of a show to syndicate in a broadcast model that wasn't built for it properly.

Petrea Mitchell wrote:
Berlusconi's sentence was almost immediately reduced to one year.

Figures. He knew how to buy his way through any fix.

mdo7 wrote:
Harmony Gold and Carl Macek kept the Macross segment of Robotech close to the Japanese version. Carl Macek said it on various interview even on ANNcast.

At least we had those before his departure.

Quote:
I don't know why people are still hating Carl Macek and Harmony Gold over Robotech, without it we wouldn't have a good anime fanbase like it is today. I'm also surprised that nobody goes after Japan whenever they overedit our stuff.

It is hypocritical definitely.

Quote:
-Remember Japan's "4kid style" alteration on Beast Wars.
-When Japan released The Herculoids, an American cartoon show in the 1960's. They changed some of the character's name.

There's always "Wacky Races" and Muttley gets called "Ken Ken". Of course changing names happens all over (the famous Franco-Belgian classics like Tintin and Asterix have seen a buffet of alterations in many countries).

Quote:
-Also Japan seriously overedit some of our American games like what we did to Japanese games in the past, Police Quest 2 is one of those. could say the same for Maniac Mansion.

No different from us!

Beatdigga wrote:
Good, now if only someone could get Tatsunoko and Big West to play nice.

I'm sure they won't.

Buster D wrote:
LOL, like anybody in the US gives a fudge about what the Japanese do to kids' shows when they air over there. Not to mention the fact that no scenes were actually cut in the Beast Wars TV series, the LDs/DVDs were still bilingual, and all future Transformers series still came out in Japan, unlike Robotech and a lot of 4Kids stuff.

Whatever, someone just had to say something anyway.

GeorgeC wrote:
Grow up already! Seriously, Carl had nothing to do with the legal mess. Carl was an employee of HG and DIDN'T control the license! IT'S THE JAPANESE WHO AREN'T ALLOWING ANY MORE MACROSS TO BE LICENSED FOR RELEASE IN THE WEST! It amazes me that almost 30 years later children like you are still bitching about things you don't understand. What's sad is that you're probably not even old enough to remember when Robotech was first broadcast and are hating it because it's "cool to hate English dubs and adaptations." You don't appreciate the circumstances under which Robotech came into being because you most likely weren't alive back in 1985!

Pretty much that's the demo of this board (guys like me are already considered "old" anyway).

Quote:
Some of you were also demented enough back when Carl was still alive to actually threaten the lives of both Carl and his wife. Macek adapted Macross as close as he was allowed to in the timeframe and broadcast atmosphere which existed back in 1985... Things were totally different back then. Unfortunately, with the restrictive time frames which exist now, lack of syndication opportunities outside of the networks that exist today, AND because of fans like you, Robotech couldn't happen today. There are many reasons why otaku are mocked and sneered at in non-anime circles; the worst anime fans constantly provide ammo for the non-fans...!

I was really put down when he did passed away, I never got to give him my thanks for all he has given us.

Quote:
Guess what? Macross didn't come over here because of a huge upswell of Macross fans in the US! It was brought over because of interest in the series which was generated BY Robotech! Ditto for Southern Cross and Mospeada. (And no, it's not your imagination... Robotech Masters sucks because Southern Cross sucked in the first place! Had nothing to do with the English adaptation... even the English adaptation couldn't salvage much from Southern Cross!)

That's true. This was also the era of the giant robot transforming craze in the US which Robotech took advantage of.

Quote:
And btw, the Macross subs didn't sell anywhere near what the Robotech DVDs did... Face it -- guys like you are in minority -- thankfully! Had Robotech sold poorly, those Macross, Mospeada, and Southern Cross DVD sets would NEVER have been released in the West.

We have to face the facts sooner or later (and grow up too).
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5915
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:53 am Reply with quote
Buster D wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
Sunday Silence wrote:
Apollo-kun wrote:
I miss the man, but I'm almost glad that the late, great Carl Macek didn't have to see this unfortunate turn of events in the life of a colleague of his.


He's as much to blame for the whole debacle of the handling of the Robotech license as anyone else.


Then why don't you go after the person in Japan that screwed up the Japanese dub of Beast Wars (where that show became a Japanese equivalent of a 4kid heavily edited anime).



LOL, like anybody in the US gives a fudge about what the Japanese do to kids' shows when they air over there. Not to mention the fact that no scenes were actually cut in the Beast Wars TV series, the LDs/DVDs were still bilingual, and all future Transformers series still came out in Japan, unlike Robotech and a lot of 4Kids stuff.


They might not have cut things out in Beast Wars, however they still altered a lot in the Japanese dub like Airazor in the Japanese dub was change from female to male, and there's a lot of alteration that Japan did to that show. Just because you don't give a crap about what Japan does doesn't give Japan a free pass from criticism when they edit our stuff. I say the same for some of our western video games when they go to Japan. I can't believe anime fans that complain about how we edit anime don't go after Japan when they edit our stuff too. This is just like how people in US often attack Hollywood for remaking Asian film but never the opposite. We just saw Japan remaking American films for Japanese audience for the last few years. When Japan announced they were going to remake Unforgiven, I was expecting a lot of the remake haters that bash Hollywood to go after Japan for doing such a remake, but no, the Hollwood remake haters kept silent and give Japan a free pass from criticism. This show all those hate for Hollywood remaking Asian/Japanese films are just bunch of pro-Asian hypocrites who think anything Asia is better then US. Chagen46 kind of describe this situation:

Chagen46 wrote:
>America remakes Japanese film: "OMG ITS GONNA SUCK"
>Japan remakes American film: "OMG AWESOME"

What is this I don't even.


Also the uncut of Macross is on Hulu, are you not aware of that? Also 4kids already give Yu-Gi-Oh to another company. Oh BTW, I've seen couple of people that hate US edit of anime did praise Japan for heavily altering Beast Wars like they don't mind Japan overedit our show the same way US overedit anime.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:22 pm Reply with quote
StudioToledo wrote:
Petrea Mitchell wrote:
Berlusconi's sentence was almost immediately reduced to one year.

Figures. He knew how to buy his way through any fix.


It got cut due to some laws in place.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7896
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:59 pm Reply with quote
TokyoGetter wrote:
Gee... I wonder if GeorgeC had an axe to grind or something?


Yes, his over-reaction to the subject is strange. My vote goes for he's on one of the companies' payrolls.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 5915
Location: Cypress, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:
TokyoGetter wrote:
Gee... I wonder if GeorgeC had an axe to grind or something?


Yes, his over-reaction to the subject is strange. My vote goes for he's on one of the companies' payrolls.


No GeorgeC is correct, I don't think he's working for Harmony Gold he know this really well and I agreed with him. I myself watch both Robotech and the uncut dub of Macross. There was something I like about Robotech over the Macross, and there were thing about Macross over Robotech (like Minmei's singing). But GeorgeC is correct, without Robotech, anime fanbase would not exist. As a matter of fact, we wouldn't have been anime fans without these edited anime. But the good news, a lot of anime that has been previously edited has now gotten uncut release, that's a good thing. The past is the past, just look at now and the future. Also as I stated, I don't see anime fans going after Japan for editing our stuff. So it's OK for Japan to overedit/change our thing when they get imported to Japan.
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Ryo Hazuki



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 355
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:02 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
So it's OK for Japan to overedit/change our thing when they get imported to Japan.


You just don't get it. When Digimon had an awful dub in Finland, I don't think the complainers gave a crap about what Japanese companies (not the government, mind you, unlike you constantly insist) did with Finnish properties in turn. Instead researching of, what kind of translations the Japanese companies (still not Japan) have made of Finnish properties, many viewers petitoned and contacted the channel and a new dub was produced (although eventually last half of 02 was subtitled, because of expenses).

Do you think people, who protested against Miramax releasing a dub only DVD of Princess Mononoke, because some Japanese companies (again, not Japan itself) also release dub only realeases (supposition on my part) or do you think they as potential paying customers had the right to complain, so they could get the product they'd want?
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Lavnovice9



Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 275
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:39 pm Reply with quote
I must side with Ryo Hazuki and others on this subject. If people in Japan actually care about American cartoons, they can fight for them if they so choose to; it is none of our concern and a battle not involving us. For all we know no one in Japan cares if an American cartoon is edited since it seems they're not that popular there. Which brings me to another point. mdo7, how many western cartooners do you know of that were butchered in Japan? For all your talking about them you make it sound like it is as big of problem as in America where companies such as Harmony Gold, 4Kids Entertainment, and Nelvana have made their catalog full of butchered anime. You keep using Beast Wars, but that makes me think it was a one-off example rather than a norm. As Buster D pointed out, Beast Wars had no real edits, and it was released with a subbed audio track in Japan. That is far more than what you can say for most bad anime dubs. I do not think the situations are comparable.
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