Forum - View topicNEWS: Sentai Filmworks Adds Blue Drop, Polyphonica, Special A
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Mario1234567
 Posts: 614 |
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Here If you don't have money to Dub a series don't license it at all..... Say you want a TV and it doesn't have power cord and you have NO money to buy that cord do you buy the TV anyway or save up and come back and buy the cord and the TV Later.. (And you haf to have this particular TV no other TV will do it for you) The logical thing to do is save up to get both the cord and the TV at the same time. If you need a TV NOW! and you can help yourself you buy a Small TV to hold you over you don't buy the best TV thus leaving yourself in Despair because you can't watch without the cord then you have NO TV. If Sentai can't right now don't get Big series that everyone wants, get small stuff first.......
And I bet now if FUNimation could get Clannad they would because if Sentai Dies out everyone will be on FUNimation's blog pooring there hearts out asking for Clannad. its already happened during that ADV report yesterday people were jumping off topic asking for it they didn't even have the full story on ADV and the only Anime they asked for was Clannad, FUNimation wouldn't let there fans down............... Its just a matter of time to when they announce Sailor Moon >_> (I hate that!) |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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Except that isn't how it works. Based on Justin's numbers, it takes 3000 units worth of sales just to make back the costs of a dub. Already, you are not talking about small series as most series reportedly don't even break 3000 sub only (and based on older info sales numbers maybe double for a dub). You are looking at the top 1% of series already and they have astronomical licensing costs. You cannot make money to pay for the big series if you just sit there waiting for the big series to come along. There are therefore only two ways to make this work: Media Blasters style (Niche = Sub, Mainstream = Dub) or FUNimation style (Huge titles with dubs pay for weaker titles with dubs). Right now, neo-ADV is sticking close to MB style. Last edited by bayoab on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Um, huh? (And I think you mean "devoid.") Funi is the only company right now that's regularly putting audio commentaries on their DVDs; all of the Darker than BLACK DVDs have one, as do all of the volumes of Claymore and Baccano! and both box sets for Romeo and Juliet and Ouran High School Host Club - in other words, most of Funi's most prominent recent releases. Or do you just not consider English audio commentaries worth mentioning? And the "some consider poor dubs on certain series" comment is a worthless criticism. A company could produce the best English dub ever made and you could still probably say "some consider it a poor dub" about it. Over the past 2-3 years (at least) no American company has more consistently produced solid, well-cast dubs than Funi has - and I think I can speak with a fair amount of authority on that. And Mario1234567, speaking as a Moderator: watch it. You've been warned before for behavior like what you're doing now. No need to go around being rude.
You're right in that a lot of people seemed to be clamoring for Clannad to get a dub, but face facts: Clannad is still a niche title even as anime titles go, with a limited potential to have appeal beyond the fanbase which normally goes for Key/Visual Art's-based titles. It is what I consider an Advanced-level anime title, in that its style points and storytelling are so tailored to hard-core anime fans that most who aren't hard-core anime fans would have trouble appreciating it. I'd be curious to know what the sales figures were for Clannad, but I bet they weren't good. Spice and Wolf, OTOH, despite an emphasis on economics, has a chance for a much broader appeal. It has a European-styled setting and look, doesn't depend much on typical anime conventions, and features a sexy wolf girl - and "sexy" seems a much stronger draw than "cutesy" when trying to draw in casual fans or non-fans. It has a catchy title which even someone who knows nothing about Japanese can instantly understand and a basic premise which translates well across cultural boundaries. (Don't even begin to try to claim that the latter can be said about Clannad.) That makes it more marketable. And, frankly, Spice and Wolf is a better-written series than Clannad, though I wouldn't expect someone who sees Clannad to be the epitome of greatness to accept that. . . 
On another note, I almost forgot to mention Tears to Tiara. I saw the first couple of episodes when we did the Spring Preview and thought it had some potential, but it just didn't make the cut for titles I intended to follow. Now this release will give me a second chance. |
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KoujiTamino
 Posts: 163 Location: Tacoma, WA, USA |
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If everyone thought like that, barely anything would be licensed period. And just because a company drops a title doesn't mean that FUNi is going to swoop in and save it. You're in essence saying that if you can't have a series with an English dub, no one should get it at all. Last edited by KoujiTamino on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lemoncookies23
Posts: 355 |
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I say that's being terribly unfair and cruel to fans who want to see the anime they like licensed, Mario. The economy is in bad shape and the anime industry is in bad shape. Licenses alone are good, especially considering a company like Sentai. You're in for a world of hurt if the industry takes a turn for the worse and goes completely sub-only, or even more apocalyptically, if the R1 industry tanks altogether. Be thankful for what we have.
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Bara_Megami
Posts: 106 |
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Geez, is this where all the dub fans congregate? Boo hoo, no sh!tty English interpretation, go watch and revel in your bastardization of Sergent Frog and call it a day. I'm SICK of people saying sub-only DVDs have less value. Sure, less time went into creating something new and unnecessary that less than 50% of people will listen to, but the bottom line for buying DVDs is:
DVD=better picture and sound quality (than even a TV-ripped .mkv fansub.) Oh no, but wait, HOW CAN YOU FOCUS ON THE PRETTY PICTURES WHEN UR READING THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN???111! Well, that's called LITERACY. I understand if you're visually impaired or too young and can't read (really, the only "valid" reason for watching dubs), but if you just don't have the confidence in your reading skills to read fast enough, that's fixable with practice. Because honestly, is having to put up with out-of-sync mouthflaps and a party unrelated to the original work interpret the scene better than just practicing your reading? If "yes", then...okay, it's your leisure time, but I think you can get more enjoyment out of works in their original language. You disagree, and want everything you watch to be speaking English all the time, that's okay too. While I'm being angry on the Interwebs, I have to type that not everyone likes to watch their anime on youtube/crunchyroll, with frame rate failures. I'd be willing to bet that there's a huge correlation between streaming-video anime viewers and dub preferring fans. (I realize this is not really related, but I just wanted to get out there that I am equally mystified by the two groups, so I assume they must overlap.) ON TOPIC: In any case, good to see these blitches are turning it out. And also really, really shady to see them turning it out so soon. I want to support them because they seem to flipping off dub fans (good), but they're just so.damn.shady. (bad). Eh, I'll wait for a pricing before I decide. (Or just pick up some Nozomi box sets instead) |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Wow, nice attitude there. You're wrong, though. Based on what I've heard about actual DVD sales over time, an industry-wide survey of people who buy anime DVDs which have both language options (NOT just of people who post in forums like these) would probably show that well more than 50% of those people are watching the dubs.
Apparently you're not okay with it if you're making comments - especially ill-informed comments - like this. Are you even aware that English dubs not only make a concerted effort to match up lip flaps, but generally do a better job of it than Japanese dubs? (Primarily because English fans expect such accuracy much more than Japanese fans do.) And series where the English version of a scene is "unrelated to the original work" are FAR from the norm.
Wow, sound logic there. While there may be some overlap, I highly doubt there's much. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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DarkHunter6523
 Posts: 96 |
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For the same reason that the Ah My Goddess TV series was terribly received, but didn't sell too badly, while the latest YUA TV series bombed: their appeal stems from a very different era of anime. AMG comes from back when harem wasn't seen as just a horrible plot device aimed at prepubescent males and even then AMG was different from the others in that ilk. Placed in a modern context (as in the timing of the TV series) and the values that made the original plot shine, fall horribly flat amongst the current generation thanks to the overuse of the very character tropes and plot devices that AMG once established. At the same time the DVD sales pull average numbers because many of the fans who started the series back in the day will still avidly buy. Since Dark Horse didn't jump on YUA early, for whatever reason, for them to start on that series well after the height of its popularity would just result in niche appeal. Creating a title that would likely costs a significant bit to license, but sell in less than impressive numbers. |
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luffypirate
 Posts: 3186 |
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you should start enjoying the japanese language pretty soon or you might miss out a lot of new titles 
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Ktimene's Lover
 Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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Tears to Tiara I am glad is licensed. Other hit spring series licensed are Phantom, Higashi, and Sengoku Basara. Dub Tears please because it is clearly a Western setting series (After all, it has aspects of Celtic mythology and King Arthur legends).
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TJ_Kat
Posts: 363 Location: Saskatoon, Canada |
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the questions has been asked, 'would you rather have it licensed with a sub only release, or not have it licensed at all?' and honestly, i'd rather not have it licensed at all. am i being selfish? yes, incredibly selfish. to me, from a watchability point, no license and no dub amount to the same thing - either way i'm not going to be watching it. the reason i'd rather it stay unlicensed is because a sub only release pretty much completely kills any chance the show might have of getting an english dub when the business environment improves. of course, that will never actually happen so it's really a moot point.
someone mentionned that people are only looking out for themselves, and i see nothing wrong with that. watching anime is my hobby; i do it because i enjoy it (because that's what a hobby is), not out of some misguided sense of charity. i don't enjoy watching subtitles, so why would i buy them? so, today we add to the list of shows that look interesting to me, but that i will never watch. i'm a little disappointed that i won't be watching more you're under arrest, but not even the obsessive compulsive completionist in me can justify the purchase of a sub-only release that would be watched exactly once at best. also, on the business sense of going sub-only, while yes, it may be the most profitable short term solution, i think it's a dead end in the long run. the goal of any business is to make as much money as possible, and you do that by increasing the size of your market. however, going completley sub-only does just the opposite. i'm having a tough time figuring out exactly how cutting your market in half (okay, so i just randomly pulled that out, but it can't be too far off the mark) encourages long term profitability. unless neo-adv has thrown in the towel and decided to stay small-time forever, they've got to start dubbing something. |
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Ktimene's Lover
Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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Key, I have been watching Tears and am loving the story. You should check out for yourself if you want. I agree these complaints are pointless. As much as people would want the list of titles mentioned here dubbed, Sentai doesn't exactly have strong enough sales for dubbing right now. Hopefully they figure out how to do that. BTW, even if a title I like isn't going to be released dubbed, I will still want to buy it subbed only. I love watching anime dubbed or subbed. Now, when will Xam'd be released by Sony? That is an anime I think works best as a bilingual release.
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dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
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I think you missed the entire point of my post. I was simply stating that similar arguments can be made against buying Funimation, or any dubbed for that matter, DVD's. It appears that the only argument for buying any DVD is to physically own the series, but people like Mario are refusing to except that as good enough. If it's not good enough reasoning to buy a Sentai title, why is it good enough for a Funi release? And I think it's best to stay away from the dub quality argument. I think over the past 3 years ADV's dubs blew Funimation's out of the water, and even Bang Zoom's top dubs were better than Funi's. But Bang Zoom tends to be a lot less even on the quality of their dubs, and have put out some pretty lousy ones, something neither ADV or Funimation have done in quite a while (except maybe Ouran.) The overall quality of a dub is determined by each individual, so there is no point in arguing over it. And in terms of extras, I do consider commentaries extras, though to be honest, I don't listen to Funi's all that often. The few I have listened to have been somewhat boring, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to give the new ones a chance. But if that can be considered almost bare-bones compared to what use to be fairly standard on anime releases as little as two years ago. And please don't forget that Funimation has also recently got into the habit of cutting extras from it's boxset releases to save disc space. |
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Macron One
 Posts: 151 Location: Netherlands |
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You know... dub fans like to use the "growing the market" argument a lot, but I really don't think it holds up to scrutiny. In fact, I would say that the illusion of growing the market by dubbing even the most unmarketable anime is what resulted in much of the R1 anime industry's present troubles. Take a good look at the anime that have been released sub-only thusfar. They include some real gems, but you shouldn't forget that they are in fact the very series least likely to attract people from outside of anime fandom. It may be tempting to think that for example Victorian Romance Emma has great untapped potential in the form of period drama fans, but the reality is this group of people is highly unlikely to try out what they would wrongly consider to be a "children's cartoon series". Like it or not, the vast majority of people will instantly dismiss sophisticated, complex anime series simply on the basis of it being "a cartoon". What does have the potential to attract the mainstream is the sort of series that appeal to the American public (particularly those in similar fandoms like videogames, science fiction and comics). These titles include Naruto, One Piece, Bleach and InuYasha, that concentrate on action and comedy which specifically appeals to young teens. Then there's the somewhat more mature titles like Cowboy Bebop, Death Note and Hellsing Ultimate, which have a darker, grittier look that appeals to older American fans. In effect, the more marketable anime have been and continue to be dubbed. Probably the most important factor in attracting new fans is TV. Unfortunately, the amount of anime broadcast on US TV is shrinking, even though some of the anime series shown get decent ratings. If even major well known anime series have trouble getting a TV deal, then anything that's niche just doesn't have a chance at this kind of exposure. Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that more anime viewers doesn't necessarily equal more profit. Anime DVD sales have roughly halved between 2003 and the present day, despite a massive increase in the number of people watching anime. Nowadays, most new anime fans became fans by watching fansubs. The fansub community's tendency to whine about dubs, editing(though this is in reality of course exceptionally rare) and license announcements has led them to actively discourage people from buying DVDs. This has resulted in widening the gap between core anime fandom and casual fans. The most popular anime continue to do reasonably well, while niche anime no longer sell enough copies to cover the cost of dubbing. My interpretation on the present situation is that reality has finally caught up to US anime distributors. In the past, pretty much everything was dubbed, including many series that sold quite poorly. At first, these losses were offset by the profits from each studio's big sellers, such as Bandai's Cowboy Bebop and ADV's Evangelion. The companies probably justified losing money on particular series based on the expectation that dubbing was to be instrumental in attracting buyers. Despite declining sales, they long continued to produce dubs for almost every license. In fact, I expect they effectively hurt their finances quite a bit in the process. Over time, it has become obvious that especially niche series are purchased primarily by those already familiar with the series through fansubs. These series have such low appeal outside of their pre-existing fanbase that a theoretical dub would not increase DVD sales enough to be worthwhile. At present, no companies other than Funimation and Viz can afford to lose money dubbing series that are unlikely to sell large numbers. The idea of growing the market is simply unrealistic right now, and niche anime are not the sort of thing that could achieve a mentionable growth of the US anime market to begin with. |
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i love blue drop and ill buy it regardless 
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