Forum - View topicShelf Life - Fists of Fury
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Really? Let me refresh your memory:
Regardless of whatever light-hearted humour you intended with that statement, it is something that Jerry Falwell would not be uncomfortable saying. The implication - whether you intended it or not - is that anybody titillated by this ecchi show must, perforce, be a creepy pedo onanist. To me, that sentiment isn't far off from those people who dismiss anime as nothing more than big-eyed girls and tentacle porn. ... Still, I wouldn't say no to that hug. |
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Quark
 Posts: 710 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Or hey, here's an idea - maybe when she said "Think about your kid sister" she didn't mean "fantasize about your kid sister" but meant it more as "Would you fantasize about your kid sister? If not, why would you fantasize about the girls in this show, because it's essentially the same thing" The way I read the review, she wasn't calling anyone a pedo. She was making a joke, and it's not her fault that you got butthurt by it and decided to drag out the personal insults. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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Actually, genius, I never interpreted her "think about your kid sister" comment as a reference to fantasizing about that. I interpreted it as a kind of cheap, prissy, moralizing along the lines of, "hey, if you're turned on by this, remember that these girls are 13 and 14...hang your head in shame, pedo." Now, Bamboo has said that was not her intent, but here's the funny thing about communication: when you are not careful about how you express yourself, your original intention can be misconstrued. Second, I did not drag out any personal insults, although thanks to a mod's selective editing and over-wrought commentary you can be forgiven for thinking I might have done so. My edited comment was my negative opinion of Bamboo's reviewing skills which I formed long before this particular review. By the way, I could be wrong about this, but I have a feeling that if Bamboo was aware of what I had written, she herself would roll her eyes at the thought that it needed to be excised by a gallant white knight. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Bamboo, I read and enjoy your opinions very much, to the point at which you are my favorite reviewer on this site. So please allow me to provide feedback regarding the "tissue" remark. I did not find it in jest, but note I did not find it insulting either. I did not comment about it originally as I chucked it up to an uncharacteristic remark by you. Rarely done, based on previous readings of your other reviews. Since you called it out, I still can not accept it was done in jest. It's just too matter-of-fact stated, especially regarding the comparison to a fans' real-life counterpart of a sibling, no less. I can tolerate the entire loli-echi-hentai-perv ignorance blatant in many remarks, but this pushed even my buttons by mixing fantasy to real-world comparisons under sexual levity. The last thing I ever want to do is view anime and relate it to the real world. I watch anime to escape it. I'm hoping my reply is helpful to you. As stated, the remark seems very uncharacteristic of your usual style. I can see how it could be perceived as a joke, but it wasn't taken as such by some of your readers who never saw it coming.
Be friends? Now that just hurt. [/joke] It's an error in judgment. It happens. Certainly not enough to deem you the Worst Person on Earth. That's my title and I'll be damned if I give it up over something like this. |
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slickwataris
 Posts: 1334 Location: Carol Stream, Illinois |
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@Amelia: I like your figure display! Although I didn't expect a girl to have wallscrolls of Misa Amane and the Haruhi bunny girls on their wall
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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Not to throw another cook into the pot (or whatever the appropriate metaphor would be, I'm tired), but here's how I read Bamboo's controversial comment:
"As much as you might like to get turned on by this, remember that they're supposedly only 13 and 14 before you do, and maybe think twice about the ick factor involved." Frankly, I got through about half an episode of this series before deciding it just wasn't for me. I'd also say that from what I saw, this is definitely another Age Does Not Match Image series. But then again, messed up official ages are sort of par for the course in anime (see my one gripe about my absolute favorite series, Gankutsuou). How seriously are we supposed to take them? But then again (again), why would Gainax decide to make their official ages so much lower than they really look? That's what's really creepy, not fans getting turned on by the show. |
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KoujiTamino
 Posts: 163 Location: Tacoma, WA, USA |
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I read it that way, too, but here's my response: What 'ick factor'? They're not real people, they're just drawings. If I went into every series with this mindset, I'd enjoy a lot less anime than I have. |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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I think one aspect people miss is that ALL the characters are that age. And if the characters were all 18, and thus automatically satisfied U.S. sensibilities, there would be no show. This isn't a case of a lolicon forcing young girls to dress up. The guy is the same age. He has the same biologically healthy urges of most 14 year old males, and the girls demonstrate the perfectly appropriate and desirable attitudes that 14 year old girls should have in response--considering, it is a gag anime, based on a gag manga, which is by nature based on exaggeration, which in this instance doesn't make any sense at older character ages (Make all the characters in South Park 18 years old. Notice a difference?). It's a modern-day fairy tale. A boy is granted unlimited freedom and resources, has no guardian (as in... fairy tale--you've seen that documentary that says Walt Disney promoted pedophelia, right? Right.). And so what is our imaginary protagonist to do? Well, hell, he's gonna dump the grumpy old servants and get him some cute maids! And if at all possible, get them to wear provocative clothing. What else? It's comedy. Oh my god, there were panties in it. Right. It's Japanese comedy. That's the entire significance of it.
And yes, this. A piece of paper, film or pixels has no more life in it than a rock. Or a sculpture, if you insist on adding the quality of "ideas" to your rocks. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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It's funny how this works both ways. It really is. Tickles my funny bone, how funny that is. How many times have BOTH you and PetrifiedJello been admonished for being way, way too harsh and way too personal in your attacks on reviewers who say things you don't like? By my count it's 3 or 4 times each now. You specifically, Blood-, said something that was pretty goddamned mean. I warned you about this when you tried to rip me apart on a surprisingly personal level several times. And yet both of you try and frantically argue that you weren't really being giant throbbing dicks when you said [insert really mean-spirited nasty thing about a writer you don't like here]. So obviously you want to be part of this community, but don't actually have any desire to stop being big gaping a**holes, and don't really understand how much access you have to the staff here. They read your comments. Unless you don't care at all about the consequences - meaning you do not care if the writer of a column thinks you're an uncharitable, mean-spirited jackass, and thusly ignores all of your criticism from here on out - then fine. Here's my advice: if you want to tell Bamboo how to do her job, be decent about it and don't pretend like you're the final authority on the matter. Neither of you are professional writers, or journalists, or editors. What you want her to say is not what she's going to say. So if you have criticisms and complaints, try and make them not sound like you're just some bitter self-righteous fan who thinks he knows best about everything. Alright? |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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With arguments like this, one always neglects another character-- the viewer. What of the viewer?
He's just doing his job, dude. No need to drag him into this with your sarcasm. Last edited by ANN_Bamboo on Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Now, this really is disappointing. Where do you get the idea that the viewer is a character in a creative work? Are you a character in the play you watch on Broadway? I really am not sure where this comes from or even where it's intended to go, so I'm just going to stop there. EDIT: That sounded worse than it should have upon rereading. Bamboo, you are one of my two favorite reviewers here, and my previous comment was not intended as criticism of you, but in response to another idea posted that represented an entire line of thought. My point here is that I just don't understand what you are trying to say, and wonder if you actually meant what it sounded like you meant. Last edited by pparker on Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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*sigh* Really? You're going to argue semantics rather than the real point? I used the word "character" because it ties in more obviously to my point than "integral part of any cinematic work." While one could argue that the target audience of the HiMM manga is young men, it is not a lie to say that a vast chunk of the audience is actually older viewers. So while the characters may all be 14, there is a good chance that the viewer is not, and Gainax is fully aware of this, and is catering to them. The usage of the word "character" was a mistake on my part, because I thought the metaphor would be more clear than it actually was. Also, if you want to talk semantics, then you can't even compare a film/TV viewer with a Broadway goer, because in a film, the viewer is meant to share the point of view of an observer within the film, while with a live performance, you are obviously just an outsider. |
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pparker
Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Now I understand. And I'm not going to argue, per se, because it's really a purely theoretical discussion at best, akin to religion. If you believe that you are somehow integral to a film that you are viewing as audience-only, then fine. I will have a different viewpoint. A creator of a work of art or entertainment, and those who populate it, are the only entities integral to that art. Anyone not a part of that group are viewers, audience, or whatever. In a live performance, the audience contributes feedback which may even alter that performance in real time. Otherwise, you sitting in your living room catching light rays emanating from a box displaying something that someone made far away and long ago are not an integral part of that creation. Any effect or reaction you choose to have from it is your own business and has nothing to do with the artist at that point. The artists' only responsibility is to somehow bring their ideas into physical form in the best fashion they can. No more. EDIT: I just noticed the catering part... and so? That's their business and what the artists involved (the two married mangaka that wrote it) intended. If you have a problem with it, then you have a problem with it. And that's your choice. Last edited by pparker on Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KoujiTamino
Posts: 163 Location: Tacoma, WA, USA |
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What of it? The apparent age of characters don't bother this viewer, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. That doesn't make me a bad person, I just don't see the point in worrying about things like that. As I said earlier: If I did, it would make this hobby a lot less enjoyable for me. A good portion of anime focus around teenage characters. I don't see why this one seems to stand out. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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This is clearly I battle I can't win, but I really object to this characterization of my edited comment. Anybody reading Keonyn's comment and now yours must think I unleashed the most scabrous, vile, personal insult imaginable. Could I have framed my edited comment in a manner to drag it closer to the "respect and politeness" rule? Sure. But is it really necessary to act as if I dipped into Satan's own Thesaurus to compose my opinion? |
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