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Kimi ni Todoke (TV).


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AlanMintaka



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:37 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

...
Oh well, you can always download the fansubs and watch them instead, because at least they're readable and make sense.


Downloading fansubs is a little problematic these days because of the way a lot of the upload sites are being shut down. At least, that's where I had been obtaining fansubs in the past.

It's a little off-putting to go looking for a fansub and running into one of those Department of Justice notices about illegal content.

A brother-in-law of my cousin's best friend has a foreign pen pal whose fourth cousin (twice removed) knows how to extract subtitle tracks from MKV containers and use them to replace the existing subtitles on a commercial Blu-Ray or DVD. From what I've been told by even more reliable sources, it involves ripping the original BluRay and re-rendering it with the fansubs. That's not a stretch technically if you know what you're doing and have the money for the authoring software and BD-R blanks.

Hypothetically speaking, would I be willing to go that far for a clean set of translations? Hypothetically speaking, yes - if I could.

As I pointed out in another post, though, I think I'm better served by checking out the manga version of Kimi Ni Todoke. The latest volume here in the USA is 14 and is about class trip to Okinawa that seems to take place after the events in the Anime series. In addition, there is this Amazon synopsis for the pre-order of volume 15, slated for release in November 2012:

"Ever since the near-kiss incident on the school trip (the Okinawa trip in volume 14 - AM), Sawako and Kazehaya have become distant. With Ayane warming to Kento’s affections and Chizuru devastated that her friendship with Ryu is beyond repair, does the change of season mean a change of heart?"

I think given that information and the business about the subtitle translations, I'm going to start collecting the Manga.

RE what you said here:
dtm42 wrote:

That is very, very strange.


Tell me about it. I'm starting to think I need a sanity check on the subtitles myself. The Manga might do that.

I can't argue with what I saw, however. I really did copy them verbatim using the BluRay drive in my PC, with plenty of pauses and rewinds to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

They really are that badly done.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:44 am Reply with quote
One of the annoying things in this anime, including second season, is that heroes use "sankyu" and other Anglicisms instead of actual words. I know that in some subset of young audience in Japan it is supposed to be "cool" to make a gibberish of their own language, but for anime to use it is so cheap. Authors, have some dignity, have some taste.

Other annoying things are, of course, that everyone is always blushing, and some heroes are so mawkish that my cheekbones get cramped. And the crunching, grindingly sweet music, petty cuty, lovey-dovy talks also trigger killer in me.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7981
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:17 pm Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:
Other annoying things are, of course, that everyone is always blushing, and some heroes are so mawkish that my cheekbones get cramped. And the crunching, grindingly sweet music, petty cuty, lovey-dovy talks also trigger killer in me.


Welcome to shoujo series, that's basically how they all are. Did you necromance this thread just to complain?
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter
Exempt from Grammar Rules


Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 4595
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:16 pm Reply with quote
Necroposting doesn't apply to series threads. They can be revived at any time.

This past weekend I watched another show that partially showed at the same time as Kimi Ni Todoke, Cross Game, they also heavily used "Thank you/Sankyu" in the show- one thing I loved about the fansubs I was watching was how they translated it as "Arigato." Smile

But yeah, complaining about blushing and sweet music in KnT is a bit like complaining about shouting and generic rock music in Naruto. It';s gonna happen.
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AlanMintaka



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:00 pm Reply with quote
If nothing else, I've learned what "necroposting" means. In my naivete I never heard of it before.

But folks, I hope I haven't been doing that. My issues with NISA's sloppy subtitles for Kimi Ni Todoke were pretty specific to the series - at least, I thought they were specific.

The problem for me is that I don't know Japanese very well. My reactions are based entirely on English subtitle content that seems to make no sense, and on the blanket assumption that the original Japanese dialogue has to be more sensible than some of these screwy subtitles. How could it be less sensible?

I see other posters here have been adding comments about badly translated words and terms since I first posted my observations about some of NISA's bizarre subtitles.

So maybe my problem with NISA's subtitles in this case is as generic as MaxSouth's complaint about mawkish blushing and facial expressions. After all, how often does this happen? Does the mistranslation of dialogue in Kimi Ni Todoke occur across the boards, as common as "mawkish blushing?"

My limited experience says no, but that's only from the perspective of reading subtitles that make sense as opposed to those that are seemingly inane. I don't often see the latter, but that doesn't mean that the "sensible" subtitles are accurate.

Hot air. All I know is, some of NISA's subtitles in the last episode of the series are inane. The fansubs posted by dtm42 make a lot more sense and are consistent with the context.

If this is necroposting, then I apologize for rising from the grave - though I do hope to do it again someday.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:40 pm Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:
MaxSouth wrote:
Other annoying things are, of course, that everyone is always blushing, and some heroes are so mawkish that my cheekbones get cramped. And the crunching, grindingly sweet music, petty cuty, lovey-dovy talks also trigger killer in me.


Welcome to shoujo series, that's basically how they all are. Did you necromance this thread just to complain?


Of course, because people go to those threads either to complain or complement or both. By the way, I actually rated the first season as "good", so I am not only complaining. Lets see if the second season -- I am going to watch it now -- will improve.

Did you find it better than the first one?


EDIT: watching the first episode of the second season, and the shocking development right away:

spoiler[The lovers get apart after seat change and became a bit more distant!!]

Will the love survive this ordeal? I am dying to know.

Also, unexpected spoiler[Valentine day] drama is along the way. I honestly never seen this depicted in a shojo anime; I am holding my breath to see how it unfolds.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7981
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Did you find it better than the first one?


About the same honestly but then, this is one of the better shoujo series I've watched in my opinion. I liked the characters and thought the romance was pretty good. I'm not really an expert on shoujo series though, I just happen to have run across a bunch in my anime travels.


Last edited by Kruszer on Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:58 pm Reply with quote
Thanks; I hope the actual thing will start soon. I can not bear chocolate crisis drama any more. Wink)
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:09 pm Reply with quote
@ AlanMintaka - Kruszer's remarks about necroposting were directed at MaxSouth, not you. But in any case I believe the "rule" is different for anime discussion threads as Spastic Minnow pointed out. Some viewers obviously don't watch a series until long after it's original Japanese broadcast. There shouldn't be anything wrong with dusting off the relevant discussion thread and posting your thoughts.
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MaxSouth



Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:23 pm Reply with quote
The thing I can easily complain about and still be fair:

1) in shonen, guys sometimes shown to want sex, but basically never allowed to have it because girls do not allow even if they pretend to want it for teasing purposes;

2) in shojo, not even guys seem to want sex.

Either way, status of sex as something "indecent" or, on the contrary, "sacred", is kept as firm as ever -- those "morals" are as fresh and modern as 19th Century.

Why we just can not have anime with normal, humane attitude towards the issue? Characters should be able to have sex, there is nothing indecent or sacred about it, according to common humanistic ethics. I know studies show that Japan and some other countries have problems with it, and it is too bad that anime does not help at all.

Now I am watching second (!) season of this anime, and the lovers can not even talk properly yet, let alone have some fun (which, by the way, does not even require for people to be in love; it is weird that often times sex and love are still thought to be mutually dependent). I feel bad for the guy, even though he is depicted to show as much lust as castrate could have.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7981
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
@ AlanMintaka - Kruszer's remarks about necroposting were directed at MaxSouth, not you. But in any case I believe the "rule" is different for anime discussion threads as Spastic Minnow pointed out. Some viewers obviously don't watch a series until long after it's original Japanese broadcast. There shouldn't be anything wrong with dusting off the relevant discussion thread and posting your thoughts.


The point I was was trying to get across was less about necroposting and and more about "Is negative stuff all you really have to say about the show? If so you went to a lot of trouble by bringing this back" I could have worded it better, but my brain's tact filter was disabled because I was dealing with frustrating computer issues at the time.
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AlanMintaka



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:01 pm Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:

...
1) in shonen, guys sometimes shown to want sex, but basically never allowed to have it because girls do not allow even if they pretend to want it for teasing purposes;
2) in shojo, not even guys seem to want sex.
Either way, status of sex as something "indecent" or, on the contrary, "sacred", is kept as firm as ever -- those "morals" are as fresh and modern as 19th Century.


Keep in mind that in addition to the cultural differences, a large portion of the target demographic in Japan consists of middle and high school students - pubescent teenagers who still live with their parents. They first see most of these series as "family-fare" TV shows broadcast by outlets like TBS (Tokyo Broadcasting System, or something like that).

Thus they're our rough equivalent to network TV series "suitable for family viewing." Granted, some network TV in the USA has gotten a little more liberal in the sex department since "Love, American Style". But here the shows specifically targeted to families is pretty much as morally strictured as Japanese family-fare anime.

MaxSouth wrote:

Why we just can not have anime with normal, humane attitude towards the issue? Characters should be able to have sex, there is nothing indecent or sacred about it, according to common humanistic ethics. I know studies show that Japan and some other countries have problems with it, and it is too bad that anime does not help at all.


Try Hentai. It often goes to the other extreme, containing little more than sex (of all kinds). It's not the type of thing that TBS will typically broadcast during "family viewing" hours.

MaxSouth wrote:

Now I am watching second (!) season of this anime, and the lovers can not even talk properly yet, let alone have some fun
...


Right. Like middle schoolers who still live with their parents, and whose stories are being told in the "Family-Fare" genre to the same kinds of families. What would you expect?

Now I know that American high-schoolers, and possibly even middle schoolers, are a lot more promiscuous than they were decades ago. But that still doesn't mean you're going to see an accurate rendition of their behavior in "Family" TV shows.

MaxSouth wrote:

it is weird that often times sex and love are still thought to be mutually dependent). I feel bad for the guy, even though he is depicted to show as much lust as castrate could have.


Again, try Hentai for a "refreshing change" from males who behave like The Castrati.
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AlanMintaka



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:12 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
@ AlanMintaka - Kruszer's remarks about necroposting were directed at MaxSouth, not you.


I know. I just wanted to be sure that in general I wasn't "necroposting", even though I had no idea what the hell it was.

Blood- wrote:

There shouldn't be anything wrong with dusting off the relevant discussion thread and posting your thoughts.


Agreed, now that I do know what necroposting is. In fact a lot of times we in USA can't do anything but necropost, since we sometimes see Anime and Manga years after the original releases. That's a long time in those genres, given the way most titles come and go so quickly.

In fact Kimi Ni Todoke is still a news item to me, because one of my projects on the "back burner" is to replace some of NISA's terrible subs with the fansubs provided by dtm42. Technically it can be done with the right software and Blu-Ray burning hardware, but is somewhat involved for a necroposting amateur like me.

Still, I think knowing how to do it will be a handy thing to have in the future, when someone else inevitably screws up subtitle transliteration.

Fascinating talk, folks. Thanks for indulging me!
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AlanMintaka



Joined: 23 Oct 2011
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:37 pm Reply with quote
Kruszer wrote:
"Is negative stuff all you really have to say about the show? If so you went to a lot of trouble by bringing this back" I could have worded it better, but my brain's tact filter was disabled because I was dealing with frustrating computer issues at the time.


Hey - at least you have a tact filter. I have a tact faucet with a huge leak. I'm always emptying buckets of spillage.

I know you weren't addressing me directly but I wanted to add some clarification of my own position. In fact my concern over the botched subtitles - only a few lines, really - is because I like the rest of the series so much.

Maxsouth has raised some general concerns about Anime "morality' and of course some of that applies to the characters' behavior in Kimi Ni Todoke.

But Kimi Ni Todoke is a little different in the sense that Sawako's social phobia is portrayed as a disorder even more serious that the usual Anime mood disorders.

I too complained a great deal about those issues in earlier posts. However, one thing I can't escape from: her social phobia was roughly equivalent to mine in high school. The difference was that I didn't have her looks or some sort of innate ability to attract a member of the opposite sex. So I've moderated my opinion about her contribution to the frustrating "morality" backdrop. Her part in this series is the story of someone attempting to recover from a serious problem.

Kazehaya is another matter. He doesn't have her affliction. All of Maxsouth's and my own older comments apply to him specifically.

There is just one other thing to consider here, though. Suppose Kazehaya has at least enough insight to realize the Sawako has some serious social problem? How would he behave? He's a pubsescent teenager faced with a problem that he knows is serious but has no idea how to confront and resolve - if he even can.

As a pubescent teenager, he's already in the position of not knowing how to act 99% of the time. What would be the reaction of a guy like that to some really serious situation that he desperately does not want to screw up?

Consider replacing Kazehaya with the Anime Male Idiot (AMI) Keiichi in Ah! My Goddess! Disaster, right? At least Kazehaya has some kind of advantage over that fool.

Ugh! Analysis is paralysis. Regardless of how it shakes out, I still think Kimi Ni Todoke is special because of Sawako's condition, how the characters deal with is, and the hopeful message the series manages to deliver despite NISA's botched subtitles.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7981
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:55 pm Reply with quote
MaxSouth wrote:
The thing I can easily complain about and still be fair:

1) in shonen, guys sometimes shown to want sex, but basically never allowed to have it because girls do not allow even if they pretend to want it for teasing purposes;

2) in shojo, not even guys seem to want sex.

Either way, status of sex as something "indecent" or, on the contrary, "sacred", is kept as firm as ever -- those "morals" are as fresh and modern as 19th Century.

Why we just can not have anime with normal, humane attitude towards the issue? Characters should be able to have sex, there is nothing indecent or sacred about it, according to common humanistic ethics. I know studies show that Japan and some other countries have problems with it, and it is too bad that anime does not help at all.

Now I am watching second (!) season of this anime, and the lovers can not even talk properly yet, let alone have some fun (which, by the way, does not even require for people to be in love; it is weird that often times sex and love are still thought to be mutually dependent). I feel bad for the guy, even though he is depicted to show as much lust as castrate could have.


What you might want to look into is romance series in the seinen (adult male oriented) demographic instead. Things like Rumbling Hearts, Kemonozume, Yosuga no Sora, etc.
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