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NEWS: Media Blasters Adds Queen's Blade, Ikkitousen Great Guardians


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Annf



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 578
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:33 pm Reply with quote
FireChick wrote:
Of all the atrocious things to dub...why did Media Blasters SERIOUSLY go for these ribald and horrid titles?!?

Hi FireChick, was wondering if you were going to chime in. I know how you love threads about T&A shows. Smile

I think "ribald and horrid" equals a lot of camp value, in the sense of "dude, you gotta see this Queen's Blade cartoon, this sh*t's hilarious!" That's why I first got into it, anyway. QB-type shows have potential to achieve minor cult status.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Hey, if you find the kind of post that goes: "I personally don't like Show X therefore Company Y's decision to dub it and release it is a stupid business decision" is rilly, rilly interesting and worthwhile, then knock yourself out. What can I say?


Yes, congratulations. You've utterly failed to refute anything xanas said. If you're going to straw man you could at least make it a little less transparent. Numerous posts here have made the legitimate complaint that either (a) they personally don't like the shows and so they personally hate to see them getting licenced/dubbed over better stuff (this does not equal bad business decision) or (b) regardless of their option of the shows they question their marketability and whether this is a smart business decision.

Blood- wrote:
People who think this is a poor business decision are implying that they have a better grasp of what will or will not sell than the people who are actually - you know - IN the business. I don't mind reading people's personal opinions on what they like or don't like, but these armchair business analysts can never usually back up their "thoughts" with anything concrete.


Just to echo what Xanas said, remember Geneon? Remember a little show called Fighting Spirit? How'd that one work out?

I honestly don't know how you can look at some of the decisions anime companies have made in the past and tell us with a straight face we should just accept everything they do on blind faith that they know better than us.

animeboy12 wrote:
Because anyone with even a speck of brain matter knows that there's obviously an audience with these types of anime series and that audiences is probably going to be more mainstream due to the sex and voilence and would be more comfortable with dubs.


Now see this right here is just the absolute perfect example of how anime fans and possibly anime companies vastly misunderstand the mainstream appeal of their product and make bad decisions because of this misunderstanding.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:59 pm Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Hey, if you find the kind of post that goes: "I personally don't like Show X therefore Company Y's decision to dub it and release it is a stupid business decision" is rilly, rilly interesting and worthwhile, then knock yourself out. What can I say?


Yes, congratulations. You've utterly failed to refute anything xanas said. If you're going to straw man you could at least make it a little less transparent. Numerous posts here have made the legitimate complaint that either (a) they personally don't like the shows and so they personally hate to see them getting licenced/dubbed over better stuff (this does not equal bad business decision) or (b) regardless of their option of the shows they question their marketability and whether this is a smart business decision.

Blood- wrote:
People who think this is a poor business decision are implying that they have a better grasp of what will or will not sell than the people who are actually - you know - IN the business. I don't mind reading people's personal opinions on what they like or don't like, but these armchair business analysts can never usually back up their "thoughts" with anything concrete.


Just to echo what Xanas said, remember Geneon? Remember a little show called Fighting Spirit? How'd that one work out?

I honestly don't know how you can look at some of the decisions anime companies have made in the past and tell us with a straight face we should just accept everything they do on blind faith that they know better than us.

animeboy12 wrote:
Because anyone with even a speck of brain matter knows that there's obviously an audience with these types of anime series and that audiences is probably going to be more mainstream due to the sex and voilence and would be more comfortable with dubs.


Now see this right here is just the absolute perfect example of how anime fans and possibly anime companies vastly misunderstand the mainstream appeal of their product and make bad decisions because of this misunderstanding.


Of course anime distributors make poor decisions. Sometimes those "bad" decisions are based on information that we don't have access to. For example, in order to get a juicy title, distributors sometimes have to take some stinky ones (from what I understand).

None of this changes the fact that distribs are the ones with actual sales figures at their finger tips that can act as a rough guide as opposed to you - some dude on a messageboard - making judgments based on your own personal perceptions. My original point still stands: posters who make judgments on business decisions based on nothing more than their own personal opinion of the property in question are wasting my reading time.

If you feel differently, good for you. I'm sure you'll be really edified by that quality analysis.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:23 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
None of this changes the fact that distribs are the ones with actual sales figures at their finger tips that can act as a rough guide as opposed to you - some dude on a messageboard - making judgments based on your own personal perceptions.


True, they have access to more specific sales figures and info. That said, it's not like there is no information available to outsiders. There are still a number of sources that while far from comprehensive, give a statistical look at sales numbers. Actually, the best source of info is probably some of the comments made by members of ANN's staff in regards to past sub only releases.

The biggest reason as well that I feel it's reasonable to form ones own opinion on this is that I think it does largely come down to perception. yeah the companies have some actual information but let's be realistic. Especially in the case of a smaller company like MB, they aren't exactly big business. They aren't spending a fortune on research and deciding what to license or dub based on mountains of data. I suspect that while they certainly have more info than the average fan, it still largely depends on the people who run the company's personal perceptions of how marketable an anime is.

I'm certainly no claiming I'm in a better position to judge this than them. However, I do think I'm able to at least form a somewhat informed opinion and so that's what I'm going to do.

Quote:
My original point still stands: posters who make judgments on business decisions based on nothing more than their own personal opinion of the property in question are wasting my reading time.


Then why are you reading this thread. Do you just really enjoy reading a hundred variations on "Oh good, I like this anime"? Because that's really the only other kind of post there is here.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:30 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken, you genuinely baffle me. Here is my key point:

Quote:
My original point still stands: posters who make judgments on business decisions based on NOTHING MORE than their own personal opinion of the property in question are wasting my reading time.


I have helpfully capitalized and bolded the NOTHING MORE since that concept seems to be eluding you. How do I know this? Why else would you write:

Quote:
True, they have access to more specific sales figures and info. That said, it's not like there is no information available to outsiders. There are still a number of sources that while far from comprehensive, give a statistical look at sales numbers. Actually, the best source of info is probably some of the comments made by members of ANN's staff in regards to past sub only releases.


By definition, any poster who presents "information" that is based on SOMETHING MORE than just his or her personal opinion of a particular property isn't doing what I'm complaining about, are they?

Intelligent debate is only possible when all parties not only read what other people are saying but actually understand it.

Oh and to answer your question: I read threads like this to find out what posters PERSONAL OPINIONS of the shows in question are, not to hear their business analysis that is based on NOTHING MORE than their personal opinion. (It can be entertaining to read people rant when a show they despise gets picked up and dubbed.)
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:57 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Numerous posts here have made the legitimate complaint that either:
(a) they personally don't like the shows and so they personally hate to see them getting licenced/dubbed over better stuff (this does not equal bad business decision)

From what I've read in these many pages, the majority of posts seem to believe all anime is distributed and dubbed by the same company.

If Media Blasters is to release the titles addressed by the article, why are many complaining about sub-only offerings from other companies?

Quote:
or (b) regardless of their option of the shows they question their marketability and whether this is a smart business decision.

But as the consumer, they have the final say when it comes down to purchasing the series.

Chances are, however, these titles do sell, and well enough to not only get licensed, but dubbed as well. This could be based on previous sales, or even forum "chatter" which indicates a desire for the series.

For the record, and my personal opinion, releasing any anime into this country is always a smart business decision. It increases choice and it increases the chance of another series getting licensed.

I may not want to purchase every title licensed, but the last thing I'm going to do is complain about it in this manner (ie, why series X instead of series Y?). My complaining will generally be over the lack of a dub. But even a lack of dub may not be enough to keep me from purchasing it.

We all have different tastes because of the variety of anime that's been licensed here. These tastes, mind you, aren't unique to every anime fan.

Be careful what you wish for. You may just get it.

Quote:
I honestly don't know how you can look at some of the decisions anime companies have made in the past and tell us with a straight face we should just accept everything they do on blind faith that they know better than us.

What do you mean by "anime companies"?

Are you talking about the studios who have no choice but to create a series based on distributors who fund them?

Are you talking about the Japanese distributors who have the knowledge, data, and means to broadcast such shows and use this information to dictate what the studio must make next?

Or are you talking about local distributors who are catering to a small market in trying to capture their dollars by saturating the market with titles targeted for an even smaller demographic?

There's a very good reason why things are they way they are: consumers are buying/watching.

There's another argument resounding on this forum as well: It's all the same shit!.

The one who can be blamed is the consumer. There's truth to the statement "vote with your wallet". I've yet see any business ignore this.

Quote:
Now see this right here is just the absolute perfect example of how anime fans and possibly anime companies vastly misunderstand the mainstream appeal of their product and make bad decisions because of this misunderstanding.

Step outside the world of anime for just a second and take a look around. Every entertainment outlet does this same thing. That is, until consumers get bored with it.

I don't know about you, but I'm quite thankful the super hero movies are done. Now, we're about to enter the vampire mythology. Again. Yeah.

Just take a look at what's on television: I haven't seen anything original in quite a long time. And if it is original, it's canceled as viewers aren't interested but instead want to watch some fool sing off key for their 15 minutes of fame.

Anime is no different.

Side note: for those who'll try to compare anime of the late 80s and 90s, don't forget there were also over 400 studios back then, and most had the luxury of trying something new and trying to sell it to distributors.

Those days are long gone as studios can no longer afford to create original works. Who'd buy it?
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:23 am Reply with quote
Blood: Let's try to keep this just a little bit civil okay? There is absolutely no need to be so condescending. Anyway, I didn't say the quoted portion in response to your 'original point'. I said it in response to your statement:

Quote:
None of this changes the fact that distribs are the ones with actual sales figures at their finger tips that can act as a rough guide as opposed to you - some dude on a messageboard - making judgments based on your own personal perceptions.


This statement suggests that anyone including myself questioning this as a business decision is making comments based purely on personal perceptions. My statement was intended to disprove that and I think it did. Also though, it's worth noting that what you are saying now is your 'original point' is not what you originally said. This is from your first post:

Quote:
People who think this is a poor business decision are implying that they have a better grasp of what will or will not sell than the people who are actually - you know - IN the business.


This is far more general and applies to everyone who is questioning this. Then you began to talk about personal perception which in the context of being a defence of your first comment, was an unrelated straw man. I pointed that out at which time you made the comment I quoted at the top again generalizing that anyone not in the industry has no actual information.

If you want to criticize just the people basing their views on personal perception and nothing else, then you should avoid making generalization like these. It gives a false impression of what you are trying to say. As these are apparently not your views though, I will disregard them from this point on and focus on what you now call your 'original point' in regards to which I will refer you the second and third paragraphs of my previous post which you have not yet addressed.

PetrifiedJello wrote:
If Media Blasters is to release the titles addressed by the article, why are many complaining about sub-only offerings from other companies?


Now see, this is a good point and I have no problem with it because it doesn't attack the fundamental idea of having an opinion on this subject but rather, that opinion itself.

Quote:
Or are you talking about local distributors who are catering to a small market in trying to capture their dollars by saturating the market with titles targeted for an even smaller demographic?


Yeah, them. I won't go into it here because it's kind of a whole other discussion but I think it's fairly apparent they've made numerous mistakes in the past.

I really don't know what you're trying to say PJ, most of what you said really has no bearing on what I'm discussing.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:50 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken, it is extremely difficult to remain civil with you because you continue to make statements that have very little bearing on what I'm talking about and also make dubious assumptions about what I am talking about, which it really frustrating. To wit:

Quote:
Quote:
None of this changes the fact that distribs are the ones with actual sales figures at their finger tips that can act as a rough guide as opposed to you - some dude on a messageboard - making judgments based on your own personal perceptions.


This statement suggests that anyone including myself questioning this as a business decision is making comments based purely on personal perceptions.


My statement is the first chunk and your statement is bolded. Big honking, huh? I specifically ended my statement with the phrase MAKING JUDGMENTS BASED ON YOUR OWN PERSONAL PERCEPTIONS. I don't know how I can be clearer. How you can twist that statement to mean that I'm saying ANYBODY who questions a business decision is AUTOMATICALLY only using their personal perception as the basis for it? You might have a point if I had ended my sentence after the phrase "making judgments" but I didn't.

Let me remind you of what started my comments about personal opinion guiding "analysis" of business decisions. It was this:

zanarkand princess wrote:
Rolling Eyes Of all the things to license and dub. I mean I knew it would be licensed (even before Toradora sadly) but a dub?


My original beef with this post was that the poster did not provide enough for me to figure out if she was dumping on the decision to release and dub based on her distaste of the show involved or whether she thought it was a bad business decision.

Your contention that posters not actually employed by companies making the business decisions could nonetheless have something worthwhile to say based on information they have, I agree with in theory, although I would always take any data presented by a source like that with a grain of salt. But that's not my main issue. For the 1,000,000th time, my beef is with posters who, like zanarkand princess seemed to do above, post something like, "I think show x sucks, therefore company y's plan to dub and release it is a bad business decision."

Jesus.
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rinmackie



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 1040
Location: in a van! down by the river!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:09 am Reply with quote
I never thought I'd see a day where ANN forum members would get upset about anime not being dubbed. Especially since it seems most of the time people complain about anime being dubbed. I believe the most recent argument was that dubs are an unnecessary expense. But now people are complaining about their favorite shows NOT getting dubbed? Wow, talk about a 180!

From what I can tell, most of the people on here:

1) Believe that owning physical copies are unnecessary.

2) Think that dubs not only suck but are an unnecessary extra that adds to the expense and they shouldn't have to pay for it.

3) Often complain that licensed releases don't meet their exacting standards.

Gee, I wonder why there aren't that many licensed dubbed anime?

Course I realize there are a small handful of pro-dub people here but to be honest most of the stuff you like such as moe or slice of life doesn't sell that well. As for the stuff that might sell; the anime companies aren't convinced. But if you want to convince them, the best way to do it, as PJ said, is to vote with your wallet. But from where they're sitting, most executives see that those who are buying anime as the ones who like stuff like Queen's Blade. (And they probably don't complain as much either.) And as one other poster mentioned, sex (and violence) sells. In other words, they're more concerned with what John Q. Public might buy not the hard core anime fans who frequent anime sites and are up on the latest from Japan.

Considering the economy and the mind-set of most anime fans, we should be grateful that ANYTHING is getting dubbed.


Last edited by rinmackie on Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
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Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:12 am Reply with quote
FireChick wrote:
Of all the atrocious things to dub...why did Media Blasters SERIOUSLY go for these ribald and horrid titles?!? Why are all these durned ecchi titles being licensed when there are so many other and much BETTER anime that deserve dubbing treatment (albeit Kamichama Karin, Natsume Yuujinchou, world masterpiece theater titles, Candy Candy, Amuri in Star Ocean, etc.)?!?


Like some others have said and I have said earlier, people will still buy shows that are not great in value of qualities. I know from others on the forum that you do not like T&A shows, but like any other market, people will still purchase something regardless of what others think of it. B-movies are still made because there are people who enjoy these types of films and will watch them. Even to make another example, cheap liquor and beer is still made because there are people who will buy it, and enjoy it.

Even if a show is VERY GOOD or superior to another that doesn't mean there is much of an interest in bringing it to another market. There are some shows that I would wish get R1 releases, but I know and other people know that will not likely happen.

Jedi Master wrote:
[
The R1 Welcome to the NHK! covers were just awful and tacky. Anime dazed


I must be like the only person on this forum who actually liked the covers for Welcome to the NHK. While yes I will agree he covers were a bit misleading, but I still though they were good and enjoyable.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:49 am Reply with quote
Okay Blood, I really don't know what to say here. This seems like fairly standard English. I don't mean that as an insult, I'm just really really not sure how we seem to be misunderstanding each other. Let me try to break it down.

"None of this changes the fact that distribs are the ones with actual sales figures at their finger tips that can act as a rough guide"

meaning: Distributors have actual information on which they base their decisions.

"as opposed to you - some dude on a messageboard - making judgments based on your own personal perceptions."

meaning: I however do not have actual information. I base my comments on personal perceptions only.

In response to this I explained the many sources from which individuals do have at least some information. I don't see why you inferred from that that I must have utterly missed your point.

Look though. Whatever. I don't care any more. Lets forget that comment and focus on what else you're saying. Your issue is with people saying: "I think show x sucks, therefore company y's plan to dub and release it is a bad business decision." Okay, that's fair enough. That's clearly an erroneous view. (I kind of wonder why you went off on it so much though being as you yourself admit it's not even clear if this is what zanarkand princess is saying.) Regardless, we pretty much agree on that particular issue.

I'm still trying to make sense of some of your other comments though. Aren't you taking issue as well with pretty much any fan questioning a business decision? Again from your first post: "People who think this is a poor business decision are implying that they have a better grasp of what will or will not sell than the people who are actually - you know - IN the business."

Not 'some people' or 'people who criticize based on...' Just 'people'. You clearly seem to be generalizing that [i]anyone[i] who criticizes a business decision thinks they know more than the companies. Did you just phrase this poorly or do you have some other interpretation?
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:11 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
I'm still trying to make sense of some of your other comments though. Aren't you taking issue as well with pretty much any fan questioning a business decision? Again from your first post: "People who think this is a poor business decision are implying that they have a better grasp of what will or will not sell than the people who are actually - you know - IN the business."

Not 'some people' or 'people who criticize based on...' Just 'people'. You clearly seem to be generalizing that [i]anyone[i] who criticizes a business decision thinks they know more than the companies. Did you just phrase this poorly or do you have some other interpretation?


Re: bolded part. No, I am not taking issue with any fan who questions a business decision - provided that he or she backs it up with something other than his or her personal opinion of show itself. It's true that I believe distribs - because they have access to more hard data (including the crucial information of how much it will cost them to dub and release a title) - are obviously better suited to make these determinations than outsiders, but that doesn't mean I will automatically discount what others might have to say.
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Goodpenguin



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:41 pm Reply with quote
This thread has largely gone the way of an Eric Dolphy-like free-form hissy-fit, but looking back, here's what I can't tease out: On what grounds do T &A driven 'B Movie'-ish action shows show less mainstream appeal than traditional anime fare?

Modern anime fans have taste's that are very, very divergent from not only 'mainstream' tastes, but even tastes of US 'cult movie' fans. I think it's possible that many anime fans draw heavily from a limited sphere of entertainment, and have biased views of where things stand on the 'mainstream' scale. Modern anime fans may look back with disgust at productions like Ninja Scroll or Wicked City, but they caught mainstream attention in way's shows like Kanon or Rozen Maiden will never achieve. Look at Afro-Samurai.

Provided the shows are bundled into 'box-set' form, with an English dub and T&A packaging, QB (which I find OK) and Ikkittousen (which I've long disliked, outside of the character art) both stand a good chance at selling among (relatively) mainstream cult/niche movies buffs. Which is precisely the audience Media Blasters caters to with it's line-up of action/horror/exploitation movies.

Also, if you're one of the folks bemoaning the visibility of T&A-oriented ecchi as a detriment to anime as a whole, think about the popularity of shows like Ouran Host Club, Kanon, Air, etc., and just stop. Stop. 95% of all anime is, and always has been, 'sweet-tooth' entertainment. Subjectively liking different entertainment-niche material and objective quality are two different matters.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:01 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Hey, if you find the kind of post that goes: "I personally don't like Show X therefore Company Y's decision to dub it and release it is a stupid business decision" is rilly, rilly interesting and worthwhile, then knock yourself out. What can I say?


I don't generally like one-liner type posts without explanation, but if someone can coherently explain what they think is wrong with a business' decision then I think that it's not automatically wrong just because they don't work in the industry. That is what I was talking about. I'm not even going to try to get into the "interesting and worthwhile" argument, since that is very broad or narrow depending on the person.
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ikillchicken



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Well okay Blood. If that's your current stance then we don't seem to disagree so there's not really anything else to be said. As I've explained repeatedly though, this is not what is implied by many of your comments.
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