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Shelf Life - Closet Case


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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:32 pm Reply with quote
Heaven's Note Pad will have to be exceptionally good to get me to ignore the I-know-I-look-and-act-like-I'm-13-but-I'm-really-21 bollox. Also for the record one can not be a NEET if one is self-employed running one's own small business. Just saying. Wink
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Heaven's Note Pad will have to be exceptionally good to get me to ignore the I-know-I-look-and-act-like-I'm-13-but-I'm-really-21 bollox. Also for the record one can not be a NEET if one is self-employed running one's own small business. Just saying. Wink

Who looks 13 despite being 21? Alice's age is unspecified, IIRC, and she certainly isn't played as being 21; she's just a hyper-competent tween, like most anime protagonists. (If you mean "Major" whatshisname, he might be only 18, since he's "a university student".)

Some of them really are NEETs; I don't think Alice is usually paid for her work, and she certainly isn't paying her "employees". Alice is just sponging off Min's ramen shop; the others must be mooching elsewhere (I don't think any but Min and Alice sleep overnight in the shop, for instance.) So 3 NEETs, 2 high-school students, 1 part-time uni student, and 1 ramen-shop owner in the main cast.

And I'll agree about HMP being shelf-worthy; I like the characters and will probably re-watch it sometime, even though I know how the mysteries play out.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:28 pm Reply with quote
Mikeski wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
Heaven's Note Pad will have to be exceptionally good to get me to ignore the I-know-I-look-and-act-like-I'm-13-but-I'm-really-21 bollox. Also for the record one can not be a NEET if one is self-employed running one's own small business. Just saying. Wink

Who looks 13 despite being 21? Alice's age is unspecified, IIRC, and she certainly isn't played as being 21; she's just a hyper-competent tween, like most anime protagonists. (If you mean "Major" whatshisname, he might be only 18, since he's "a university student".)

Some of them really are NEETs; I don't think Alice is usually paid for her work, and she certainly isn't paying her "employees". Alice is just sponging off Min's ramen shop; the others must be mooching elsewhere (I don't think any but Min and Alice sleep overnight in the shop, for instance.) So 3 NEETs, 2 high-school students, 1 part-time uni student, and 1 ramen-shop owner in the main cast.


Bamboo wrote:
The alpha-NEET is a hikikomori named Alice, a talented hacker who runs a detective service from her apartment. Surrounding herself with stuffed animals, cans of Dr. Pepper, and computer monitors, she carries out most of her tasks through a loyal team of colleagues, including a military otaku, an ex-boxer/high school dropout, a playboy, and main protagonist Narumi, a high school student who falls in with this crowd after being introduced by his classmate Ayaka. Together, and with the occasional help of a NEET yakuza group, they work their way through a series of surprisingly intriguing “cases.”
You'll have noticed it doesn't say "from her parent's apartment"? What "tween" has her own apartment? What "tween" can afford her own place to live in on her own without some sort of trust fund to operate out of?
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 2345
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:34 pm Reply with quote
Animegomaniac wrote:
maaya wrote:
In this particular case, the author of Heaven's Memo Pad was / is a Neet himself.


As was the author of Welcome to the NHK. On the other hand, the author of Eden of the East probably wasn't one seeing how NEETS only became useful after spoiler[being stripped naked and sent out to sea for about a week. Something of a metaphor, you think?]

you are partially right, I give a panel the metaphor of eden of the east and you got the wrong interpretation sorry
spoiler[Yes that is a metaphor but A they were not stripped before being being sent out, they only came back naked, just like taki was in front of the white house. Nudity in the show is a reference to the ideology that taki represents (biopolitics) and in bio politics there is a state of being free from bio political control called bare life it's actually a really bad pun for saying that they are free from governmental control, because the government thinks of them as useless] so ya eden of the east certainly pretty much only cast neets in a positive light.

Also can EVERYONE please look up the term redeployment because that is what they are doing in kami-sama no/ Heavens Memo-pad
thus making the old government definition pretty much useless in the context of the show and the characters when they talk about NEETs which seems to be the place sentai failed this time (and I really don't care that much about since if needed somewhere to take a dump please do it there).
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getchman
Space Cowboy



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
What "tween" can afford her own place to live in on her own without some sort of trust fund to operate out of?


she is living in a room on the third floor of Min's ramen shop and, like Mikeski said, sponging off of Min
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ANN_Bamboo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:10 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
She is not a NEET, she is a hikkomori, and I don't she what is so hard to grasp about that. A hikkomori is someone who basically shuts themselves away in their room away from the world, generally out of some fears or confidence issues. However, that does not mean they don't necessarily do anything.

On the flip side a NEET can walk about Tokyo and mingle with people just fine. Now one can in theory be both, but that is not always the case. I would say the main girl is just a hikkomori, although arguably a couple of the guys like Sarge could be construed to be NEETs.


In the series, they specifically self-identify (proudly, I might add) as NEETs. If the author wanted them to be such, then who are we to question if they're technically NEETs? I mean, technically the military otaku is enrolled in a college so he's "in education," but he doesn't go. So...

If we're going to argue definitions, I'd say that even though Alice herself claims to be hikikomori, she's not, because she doesn't have any problems interacting in social situations.

Quote:
I don't get the rating on UN Go, so because the show could have been great but was only good, its only a rental. Half the shows you have in shelf worthy section are merely good not great. Heaven's memo pad certainly isnt a masterpiece. It seems like you are going out of your way to punish Un Go because it didn't not meet some of your expectation.


I don't want to watch Un-Go again, but I would watch HMP again.

Isn't "great" completely subjective? All reviews are. I try my best to explain how I feel about each show. I think the ratings are the least important part of the review.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:19 pm Reply with quote
Fair enough, on the Un Go point, I just felt you were knocking it down a peg because it didn't live up to some expectation while still being overall good. I will agree Memo is far easier to watch multiple times, though I would have no problem watching Un Go.

And if it came to which would I like to see have a sequel, than Id rather Un Go get one first.

The author can do whatever they want, I always been of the opinion you are God of your own work. Though the flip side is fans have the right to complain, but it does not go so far as they have some entitlement to change something. I was just saying she clearly is not a NEET by the definition and that Hikkomori are not a sub group of NEET. Hikkomori generally have legitimate psychology issues that cause to be that way, on the flip side a lot of NEET just seem to be lazy. But whatevs.
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:25 pm Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
Psycho 101 wrote:
Characters like this feel like filler characters in a sense. It's like they're simply just "there" for lack of a better word. (...) The problem with this character type is you don't really have to put much effort into them and you can get away with it, If they're bland or pointless or lack depth it's fine as that fits the character type.


Yea, I think I see what you mean. I suppose a character who's a neet somehow has a higher risk of becoming boring and unremarkable. But overall it's maybe more a problem with the writing in general. A good writer can make any kind of character engaging ... for example Tsukimi in Princess Jellyfish probably qualifies as a neet, but I wouldn't call her a filler ^^

Thank you, unremarkable is a quite accurate word and just what I was looking for. They run the risk of more easily being unremarkable and boring. They can simply show up and do nothing but still fit perfectly into their character mold. Like you said though that also is often the result of laziness on the writers/producers part. Too easy with such characters to put in minimal effort and get away with it.

ANN_Bamboo wrote:
CrownKlown wrote:
She is not a NEET, she is a hikkomori, and I don't she what is so hard to grasp about that. A hikkomori is someone who basically shuts themselves away in their room away from the world, generally out of some fears or confidence issues. However, that does not mean they don't necessarily do anything.

On the flip side a NEET can walk about Tokyo and mingle with people just fine. Now one can in theory be both, but that is not always the case. I would say the main girl is just a hikkomori, although arguably a couple of the guys like Sarge could be construed to be NEETs.


In the series, they specifically self-identify (proudly, I might add) as NEETs. If the author wanted them to be such, then who are we to question if they're technically NEETs? I mean, technically the military otaku is enrolled in a college so he's "in education," but he doesn't go. So...

If we're going to argue definitions, I'd say that even though Alice herself claims to be hikikomori, she's not, because she doesn't have any problems interacting in social situations.

This brings to my mind the fact that Hiki's/Neet/whatever you want to call them is possibly becoming the next moe in terms or argument. By that I mean the terms are fairly subjective I think and really up to the person to indentify which category a character falls into. Minus situations where the author/producer make that choice clearly for you, as with this series. Though even here the reader/viewer can disagree if they want. I just see this becoming, at least to a small degree, the new argument. What is NEET? What is moe? You get the picture. For me it's even more similar given the character types can be quite unremarkable and pointless if not handled right. Simply by being there they can live up to their character type without any sort of depth or effort needed. They simply shot up to the party and just by being there with a pulse they accomplish the minimum requirement of their character type. Again I find this can lead to laziness on the side of producers/writers. Not saying it always does or will, but the possibility is much higher than with other character types. I just personally like my characters to have SOMETHING to them being having a pulse. Again, I'm not saying all NEET/Hiki/Moe/Etc characters are boring or pointless. Just that they can more easily run that risk compared to other character types and don't REQUIRE as much work to fit into their character molds.
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maaya



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:46 pm Reply with quote
ANN_Bamboo wrote:
even though Alice herself claims to be hikikomori, she's not, because she doesn't have any problems interacting in social situations.


But apparently she has agoraphobia (of wide-open spaces) and starts feeling bad if she goes outside her room.

Mohawk52 wrote:
Also for the record one can not be a NEET if one is self-employed running one's own small business. Just saying. Wink


For some, the "employment" in "neet" refers first and foremost to the fact of being employed / hired, so sometimes people who run their own small business are also considered neets. Probably depends on the economical success of said business ... and I think you're right in that it's not the official definition.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:52 pm Reply with quote
Sankaku Complex has some excellent pieces showcasing the glory hikikis and NEETs. Truly, an icon of rebelliousness and sticking it to the man...right
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nechronius



Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 275
Location: So Cal, USA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:14 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
...but to have suicide be the product of something relatively trivial and sentimental seems wrong,...


There was that story of that boy who committed suicide not too long ago after his favorite Naruto character died.

Life imitates art? Or is it the other way around...
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:47 pm Reply with quote
nechronius wrote:
Quote:
...but to have suicide be the product of something relatively trivial and sentimental seems wrong,...


There was that story of that boy who committed suicide not too long ago after his favorite Naruto character died.

Life imitates art? Or is it the other way around...

Still not exactly a topic to joke about or use in a trivial matter if you ask me. Still a sad case that real life example. As for the show I personally wouldn't have suicide be used over such a trivial topic if I were the director/producer but I'm not so their call. Guess I'll have to see the show and how it's used myself to formulate a more permanent opinion on it.
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ANN_Bamboo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:02 pm Reply with quote
CrownKlown wrote:
Hikkomori generally have legitimate psychology issues that cause to be that way, on the flip side a lot of NEET just seem to be lazy. But whatevs.


I don't think the latter is necessarily true, or fair. Some of them might be lazy, but I think there are deeper forces at play, here. A lot of societal forces collide together to create an atmosphere in which the younger generation no longer wants to join the workforce. Pressure, depression, lack of motivation, rebellion against the older generation... there are a lot of things that I think can't just be attributed to laziness alone.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:49 pm Reply with quote
Doesn't Welcome to the NHK portray much of the problems with Hikikomori or NEETs in general? I'm not saying it's the only source, but anyone could look at that show and get a pretty good idea of some of the deeper problems many hikikomori or NEETs would have.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1762
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:43 am Reply with quote
ANN_Bamboo wrote:
CrownKlown wrote:
Hikkomori generally have legitimate psychology issues that cause to be that way, on the flip side a lot of NEET just seem to be lazy. But whatevs.


I don't think the latter is necessarily true, or fair. Some of them might be lazy, but I think there are deeper forces at play, here. A lot of societal forces collide together to create an atmosphere in which the younger generation no longer wants to join the workforce. Pressure, depression, lack of motivation, rebellion against the older generation... there are a lot of things that I think can't just be attributed to laziness alone.


I was not trying to generalize, but it has been shown that quite a few neets, at least in anime/manga, are just lazy, on the flip side I have seen cases where they were neets but did have some more serious issues.

I also wouldn't say neets/hikkis are anything new, have you sayonra zetsubo sensei, plus there are a handful of others.

Plus memo is almost as much about the little shut in plus young male assistant troupe like Dantalion and Gosick, as it is some glorification of NEETs.
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