Forum - View topicNEWS: Handley to Be Sentenced for 'Obscene' Manga in January
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Maryohki
 Posts: 526 |
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You can't be serious. DaemonBlue hit the nail on the head; it was because he couldn't take the crap he was getting. Not to mention he probably just plain couldn't financially afford to keep fighting. And pleading guilty usually gets you off a bit easier. |
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CMB
Posts: 44 Location: Lock Haven, Pa. |
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ac195
Posts: 48 |
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Wow, just wow...
Are you kidding me?... It's a drawing... 15 years for a couple of drawings?... If I draw two stick figures, put them in lewd positions, and label them 12 years old and 13 years old, then mail them... I'd get 15 years in the can as well? Wow, is this the reason we have the 2nd Amendment? |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Over on another thread someone linked to another article about a Canadian man who wrote stories about TEENS who got nailed in their virtual porn purge. The guy was dumb to do it on a work computer, but still, on that concept, how many Hollywood types would get fried? How many teens are portrayed as desiring to lose their virginity before they graduate high school? Virtual child porn, peeps. The problem is most people conceive of child porn as involving the 12 & under crowd, but anyone under 18 counts. How many anime/movies/shows/books/whatever have portrayed nubile 16 yr olds?
Romeo & Juliet is child porn. The Brothers Grimm involve many stories of endangered children. This problem arises out of do-gooders with no common sense. Are we all against child abuse? Of course. So of course we should do all we can to prevent it. Why would anyone draw/write about children having sex? Maybe because of puberty. The whole coming of age idea. How many of these people pushing for these laws kept their virginity until they were legal age? If they kept diaries, they could be in trouble under Canada's law. Should adults be going after teens? No. It's trouble & not worth it in any way even if the teen is pusuing the older person. For all concerned that divide needs to be left alone. I've listened to officers telling 19 yr old guys to stay away from their girlfriends until the girl is 18. You might be 17 & she's 15 & maybe that's ok-only 2 yrs, but if her mom or dad aren't ok with you, it's statutory rape time when the older partner hits legal age. And forget naked pix of your partner-- they're child porn. Not virtual-real kids child porn. The sort everyone insists has no excuse for existing. And writing about it is virtual child porn if it involves sex as that Canadian man discovered.
One of the stories floating around (From Handley's attorney)was part of the fuss was the manga in question involved yaoi with very feminine boys who appeared to be under the age of 18. WHether true or the lawyer was looking to drum up homophobe accusations, the yaoi seems to have vanished so if there was yaoi, it might have been dropped from the charges since the 7 manga usually are described as involving girls. Thanks Daemonblue. I'll probably pick it up. |
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BorgmanJayce
 Posts: 298 Location: Hades via UK |
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I actually feel sorry for the poor bastard that he's in deep shit just because he ordered some yaoi and various other doujinshi. What's the odds that the loser who reported him to the authorities [and is probably a Puritan! LOL] will hopefully get a nice big helping of karma!
TBH, I'm scared that we're heading towards the horrible future shown in Equilibrium where having individual thoughts is illegal. I collect and download hentai doujinshi as well as regular doujinshi and I don't have any urges to go out and commit sexual crimes because I know the difference between fantasy and reality. Some of my best female friends collect Yaoi [one in particular has a huge-ass collection of the stuff!] and at the MCM Expo in London, there were a few stalls selling hentai and yaoi [the majority of the sellers kept their stuff covered up in boxes and definitely made sure that the buyers were over 18 whereas one obnoxious seller who kept shouting "YAOI!" all the time actually sold his products to under-18's as well as over-18's]. What the fudge ever happened to common bloody sense? Oh, I forgot, it died when the politically correct fuckwits and even bigger fuckwit do-gooders came in and fucked things up for decent people... If I had my way, I'd have the politically correct people and do-gooders shipped up to various deserted islands and then have them all blown up to Kingdom Come! 
On a more serious note, American and Canadian Otaku truly do have my deepest sympathy that they have to go through all this crap when it comes to owning yaoi/hentai all because of some idiotic dogooders who seem to be a bit lacking in the brain department. Look at it this way, we in the UK are very close to losing freedom of speech and I'll be damned if I'm forced to give up my hentai because of a Guardian-reading fuckwit who says stuff like "Think of the children!". Yes, I'm thinking of the children but surely children should be allowed to be children without being over-bloody collymoddedled by the [expletive] State! No wonder the UK is in the crappy state it's in when political correctness has taken over and common sense is practically dead! I just hope for Mr Handley's sake that by some miracle or other, something good happens to him in the end as he shouldn't have to go through this crap just because he likes Yaoi... NOTE: I'd like to apologise for the excessive profanity but when you live in a country where the Prime Minister is a one-eyed Presbyterian arrogant fucktard and the thought police [especially Peter Mandelson] are running the country and the general election is practically a two-party race, you'd be angry too! Last edited by BorgmanJayce on Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Daemonblue
 Posts: 701 |
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On a semi-related note I just ran across this on sankaku: http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/11/11/14-year-olds-most-prolific-rapists/
The article is safe but the site isn't exactly safe for work :X |
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KrisEllieOphi
 Posts: 111 Location: Texas |
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Helloooooo Lost Girls I'm surprised there wasn't a huge deal about that book, though Moore supplies some reasons why he thinks there wasn't. I don't know how graphic it is because I haven't read it myself, but.... It's probably something that should be brought in for comparison. Last edited by KrisEllieOphi on Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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There's nothing we can do at this stage, I'm afraid. Myself and many other concerned individuals signed an official Downing Street petition to prevent the C&J Bill from infringing the freedom of speech of graphic novelists. The petition was rejected outright, and the clauses of the bill have sailed through all the Lords' debates. |
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Human_Instrumentality
 Posts: 32 Location: Ontario, Canada |
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I think one of the problems, be it in the UK, US, or here in Canada is that a lot of the people making and enforcing the laws are 2 steps behind the times. They are people so caught up in old-world thinking and beliefs that they cannot wrap their head around the here and now.
I mean I don't expect 40, 50, 60 year old men & women to understand the concept of hentai/ecchi itself let alone how it isn't harmful. I'm sure if you went up to one of these politicians, lawyers, lawmakers etc and showed them a hentai image they wouldn't know what to say. Sadly, due to this I think the mindset is "it's easier to condemn it than it is to try and understand it," which seems evident in the severity of Handley's sentence when you compare it to an actual rape, homicide, etc (as mentioned in previous posts). And then what message is that sending? In an extreme sense someone who isn't all there could view it as "Well, as much as I want to download that hentai pic, i'd be safer just to go out and actually perform a violation." What needs to happen, in my opinion at least, is that laws need severe reviewing to have them on par with the times. Redefine what is & isn't a criminal act and what the sentences are instead of making it different on an individual by individual basis. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason this issue was brought to the attention of the authorities was simply because whoever discovered it didn't know how to react to "drawn pornography"... either the fact that it was drawn yaoi sat uncomfortably with some close-minded individual who still wants to deny that gay people are a part of our societies. |
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Ktimene's Lover
 Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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WTF is with this? They don't tell us enough what manga was deemed obscene (Last December, I believe they did tell us in the big Editorial article). They allow porn to be made in the US (kiddy porn is banned outright in many countries) but not this manga? Realize, you government douches that they put age ratings on manga for a reason.
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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About time I delete all Hentai off my PC.  I don't have that many, though. I'd say about 10-15 episodes, none of them featuring children. Well, they look old enough. But hell, how would they specify a drawn character's age. Damn it all... I'm confused, just like that guy from the insurance advertisement.
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Confusing indeed. Best to err on the safe side as regards the grey area that a great deal of hentai now falls into.
I believe Handley-like cases have occurred in Australia or New Zealand. One just hopes such cases won't spread as such laws are adopted in further countries. |
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KanjiiZ
 Posts: 661 Location: Central Coast |
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As much as I want to say "Stop looking at little kid porn", I know it's mentally impossible. It's like telling 90% of the men out there to stop liking big chests.
I just think you shouldn't have child pornography, drawn or real. It is in no way normal to like them, and there is no use in debating it. Sure doujin of little kids isn't harming anyone, but who's to say one will not seek out the real thing? I do sort of find it funny how anime fans think it's cool to like "loli's" or little kids in general. If you've ever been on a forum full of otaku you will see such phenomena everywhere. |
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Human_Instrumentality
Posts: 32 Location: Ontario, Canada |
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I wouldn't say anime fans think it's "cool" to like loli, I think it just comes with the territory. I mean people watch anime and for some it's a gateway into Jpop/Jrock/Visual Kei/etc, others watch it and it gets them into Ecchi/Hentai, and through that they may discover fetishes that interest them whether it be catgirls (which aren't normal to like either, right? but no one raises an issue on that), maids/nurses, tentacles, loli or whatever. If someone likes loli, so be it... but the fact is that it is a drawing: 'virtual' porn. If someone were to read, say, a tentacle rape fan-fiction should they be arrested? If it were real photos or real videos then I'm all for arresting the guy, but when it gets to a point where basically I need to debate whether hentai pic X is within the vaguely specified category of being viewable then I have a problem with it. It can also be argued that it is better that he is looking at the drawings in his own home rather thank going out and acting on them (though since no real photos/videos were found there is no evidence that he even has these urges/thoughts outside of his anime/hentai loli-fetish). |
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Daemonblue
Posts: 701 |
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Say that to most of Europe during the Dark Ages and some years later (can't give exact dates) most of the Muslim run countries, and Children. I'm sorry, but when I was 6, guess what aged girls I liked. What about when I was 9, or 13? Saying it's "unnatural" to like young people is like saying it's unnatural for a monkey to fling poo. People are wired differently and their hormones affect them differently as they age. I, for example, never went through a "girls are gross" phase, ever. Does that make me a paedophile because I liked 6 year olds when I was 6? According to the point you just made it does, but according to common sense it doesn't. Anyway, on to the other points in your little post. Most people that look at just the fake stuff most likely won't go after the real stuff. There, I said it. People who look at the real stuff may look at the fake stuff, but there's a fundamental difference in that the fake stuff rarely looks remotely real. People can be attracted to it simply because of the colors or the shape of their faces, as well as body proportions (c'mon, curvy 9 year olds in real life with 3 inch tall eyes?). What's more "disturbing" are all these matching panty and bra sets for 5 year olds being sold in stores or t-back bikinis for 10 year olds. It's apparently fine in the eyes of society to sexualize children as long as they aren't butt naked... Personally though, I think they should be going after the REAL criminals that create REAL child porn and abuse REAL children instead of all the fake stuff, but then that would make too much sense wouldn't it? |
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