Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! The Apology Song
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Cain Highwind
Posts: 313 |
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Okay I know that this topic has mostly become a "Japanese vs American Animation" debate, but I'd kinda like to bring up that whole thing with TV Tokyo and Youtube.
Has anyone ever bothered with the whole Counter-notice procedure (for an AMV or similar video taken down by a Japanese Studio/Broadcasting company)? You know when you give them your information and state that you uploaded a video in good faith believing it was fair use. I'm really curious. I, like many others I'm sure, have wanted to but are afraid of what a company might do in response since legally the video has to go back up otherwise and they can either ask you formally or take you to court. As I read someone else put it, it's "pulling the tiger's tail" A couple videos in question I had were taken down differently. One was a cool Japanese take on filk with One Piece. It was 10 minutes long, but it basically summed up about 315 episodes (in 10 minutes of song). I REALLY think someone at Toei, while sweeping Youtube for content, mistook it as a piece of an episode. I've tried contacting them (even with Snail Mail) to try to reach an understanding, because I don't want to tempt them with a lawsuit by filing a counter-notice, but no answer whatsoever. My other thing was just some "Seiyuu highlights" videos featuring a few small (no more than a minute) clips of a few notable scenes (the videos themselves were no longer than about 5 minutes). These were actually identified by TV Tokyo's "digitial thumbprint" for the little bit of Naruto in them and taken down automatically. I would think something like THAT is fair use, right? (I know I know, I'm not expecting REAL legal counsel here, just an "informed opinion". |
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Chesis
Posts: 27 |
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Here's an article that might help: http://www.politicalremixvideo.com/2009/10/02/the-slow-road-to-fair-use/ |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Actually I wasn't clear. I meant the fact that aside from School Days, the guys always ends up with one girl, even if we don't know who, basically precludes it from being a harem. Just thinking about other girls does not a harem make. In fact "real life" is much more harem-like in that people date multiple people and have sex with them before settling on one person. Where as in almost all harems, the protagonist's relationship with every girl is purely platonic until he decides. I mean, not even a single kiss! So all in all the term harem seems very much a misnomer |
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Chesis
Posts: 27 |
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I think it's broader than that. Harem anime are all about having multiple *potential* love interests. If your hero is not committed to any one particular girl and you've got five or six of them hanging around, until he makes that choice it's a harem situation. Also a good indicator is whether any of these girls have other potential love interests, or if there are in fact any other males in the show who aren't comic relief. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Because god knows Gone With The Wind, Robin Hood, & Wizard of Oz don't usually get included in the top 100 movies when critics make their lists. Star Wars is a terrible series of movies people won't keep including in the top movies of last century I bet it also counts who's making the list. Popular in Japan vs popular in the US seems to differ
Sorry, but I don't give a rat's rear what critics say or if it wins an award. I like what I like. My collection covers a wide variety of anime from cyberpunk to hentai to shojo to shonen to harem...I have something of a lot of genres.
So they were either hoping for a 2nd season or trying to entice the audience to read the manga?
There-you said it yourself. Look at the Harry Potter movies-how much do they have to leave out to stay within the alloted run time? If you knew there was XX number of eps, you had to know it would either be highly abridged (ala the X movie which tried to cram about 20 volumes of manga into a 90 minute movie. I love it because it looks wonderful, but the plot is basically introduce characters so they can die 10 minutes later.)
Wait. I thought it was all about his being the heir to a country that was over-run by the baddies. That's want I got out of the first couple chapters of the manga. Chapter 54 comes out this month But I'm really more interested in Kuroshitsuji. I saw the fuss here, though, over the announced 2nd season when there was apparently a very decided clear-cut ending to the first season that the protesters felt made a 2nd season impossible which is the flaw of animators creating endings for ongoing titles.
No one is going to convince you because you have it stuck in there & it's really burning you right now it seems. Myself, I can't see people getting all worked up over 1 stupid anime when there are HUNDREDS out there to watch. I finished Bleach box 2, then moved on to Comic Party Revolution, went on to the first HunterXHunter box, am up to ep 41 of the GitS:SAC 2nd Gig box I've had sitting in my pile for a month with my choice of following it up with the first season of Tsubasa Resevoir, Solty Rei, the 2nd 00 box, or the 2nd Sgt Frog box that is in the mail. Or I could actually dig into the hopelessly behind pile including the 2nd half of X TV, Gilgamesh, Argentosoma or any of the others that have been waiting 6 mos to be watched. Although I've really been wanting to re-watch Generator Gawl, Nazca, & Weiss Kruez. Blue Seed & Gokudo also caught my eye while I was attempting to organize my shelves (hahahaha) & it's been too long since I watched Maze or Sorcerer Hunters, though Saber Marionette & Amazing Nurse Nanako probably deserve a re-watch. And it has been forever since I watched Escaflowne. I could always seriously watch the Sailor Moon dvds I bought my daughter. It was always a civil war in our house-she loved Sailor Moon, I love CCS. But Sailor Moon would make me want to watch Wedding Peach because I enjoy it more so it has an attached booby trap. And you are whining over 3 series? There are too many other titles to watch Heroic Legend of Arislan, Twin Signal, Here is Greenwood, Ranma 1/2, Shaman King, 10 Tokyo Warriors, 8 Clouds Rising, Kizuna, Blue Wolves, 3X3 Eyes, 12 Kingdoms, Master of Mosquiton...how many titles do you want me to come up with that don't have a clearcut ending to show unfinished anime is not a recent phenomena? |
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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Doggone it! My previous post attempt failed due to this stupid new PC I'm on. So this will be the short version.
I don't think romance is a major part of the definition of a harem show. What's important is a group of attractive, strongly individuated people (of one sex), with a central character (other sex) as viewer proxy. The entertainment comes from discovering the diverse personalities of the harem members, and the subsequent frisson from finding a wide range of personality types simultaneously attractive. The embarassments of the central character are a secondary source of entertainment, depending how well this aspect is done. |
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Stretch24
Posts: 107 Location: Ohio |
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Well, when I first posted my question about whether anime series which were based on incomplete manga (and had distinctly incomplete stories) were becoming more common, I had expected a lot of people to say that they had noticed the same thing. But that doesn't seem to be so. Perhaps I should have made this clear: I don't object to anime based on incomplete manga per se, just ones which have poor endings--that's what I suspect is becoming significantly more common nowadays. I am uncomfortable with shows which apparently don't even try to fabricate a decent conclusion. Frankly, Guin Saga, Saki Mahjong and 07-Ghost all seemed to be of at best average quality, which made the lack of a credible conclusion especially frustrating. I was kind of impatient to get them over with and move on, and didn't want to learn that I'd have to watch another 26 episodes to get a good ending, assuming one was ever made. I apologize for wandering off track into nonsense about whether very long series are better or worse than average ones, etc.
CCSYueh wrote:
I like what I like too, but my approach is that I'll be more likely to find stuff which I'll end up liking if I go by the recommendations of respectible critics rather than rabid fans. That's one reason why I frequent ANN. Of course in the end only I (or anyone) can decide for certain whether they find the show enjoyable or not.
Yeah, one thing I learned, largely from pparker, was that maybe I shouldn't have been operating under the assumption that what seems a complete, well packaged series to me automatically seems that way to those in Japan as well. I haven't got enough time or money to delve into manga large scale, so I tended to think only in terms of anime, and expected it to tell a complete story. Maybe the Japanese really do bounce back and forth between different media to such an extent that they don't demand a complete tale from any one of them. Still, I would bet that there are certain principles of good storytelling which are universal. If even the plot arcs and filler episodes lack some sort of credible conclusions, would anybody want to watch?
The reason I'm "whining" is that I watched fourteen new series over the spring/summer season and three of them--that's better than one out of five--had distinctly incomplete endings. A decent conclusion was the last chance those mediocre shows had to salvage themselves. Basing them on an incomplete manga wasn't necessarily a bad idea, except that their quality turned out to be such that in the end they were only worth 26 episodes at most, in my opinion. When they didn't deliver--at least not very well--that made me feel as if I'd been shortchanged by the series' makers. Will the ratio be as bad or worse this season? Well, in writing this I just realized something new: the problem isn't entirely that we don't get a complete conclusion to the story, it's also that we tend to get modest, unexceptional shows without conclusions. When we watch whatever Japan cranks out ASAP, rather than what have been judged to be the good ones and R1 licensed, that is. I should have made it clear that those were the shows I was describing right from the start. I still think that those flawed shows are becoming more and more commonplace nowadays. Thanks for the debate, CCSYueh. I wouldn't have grasped that if we hadn't been going back-and-forth. |
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raidou
Posts: 13 |
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the way i see it is like this, anime and american animation BOTH have their share of masterpieces and crap; i mean everything can't be perfect ( if that was the case everything we pissed on would instantly turn to gold
 ) it's all about preference;but i will admit that anime has more variety plotwise. american animation can have the same amount of variety if the general public just stopped looking at american animation in black and white.(meaning anything other than shows like family guy, simpsons ,and ATF are ment for kids.) but that's a story for another time....
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SalarymanJoe
 Posts: 468 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA |
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Nice article, Chesis. I had no idea that the automatic DMCA notices and counter-notices were built in to YouTube. However, since we are invoking a take-down from a Japanese company, the rules may vary. I know that Japanese copyright law does not have any permissions for fair use like American law does. YouTube may simply have a canned message that states DMCA takedown but may have to comply with the rights holder's law versus some elaborate international law construct. Then again, Japanese rights holders may have access to DMCA abilities if the infringement occurs in US webspace. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (IANAL), merely slightly versed in copyright because I think it needs reform. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Mad Magazine and Heavy Metal Magazines say hi, legal channels around at the same time and are still existing now. I don't hear you exactly mentioning them and because it was voluntary there was nothing compelling existing or new writers to join it, it was a set of standards, nothing more, an industry group, for all that it is. So guess what, your recollection of event is off as stores did and do carry Mad Magazine and Heavy Metal Magazine. And when the indie comic scene appeared, they were legal too, not some illegitimate channel, because the CCA was an industry group. Not law, no compulsion. |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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Last post...
Your examples prove my point. BTW, I've done your research for you: You cite MAD as the exception to the rule, but it is outside the publication category we are discussing--comics for children. I did read it in middle school in the 60's, but missed most of its true message. It's a satirical magazine targeted at older, more sophisticated readers (Roger Ebert claimed to have learned how to critique movies from MAD, and National Lampoon is a literary descendent). It inspired several knock-offs, all of which were commercially unsuccessful, but did also inspire the later underground comix. Heavy Metal didn't begin publication until 1977, well after R. Crumb and others had established the underground comix movement in the 1960's. Also after both Fritz the Cat and Heavy Metal the movie were released. Note that name: "underground". The reason they were called underground, and "comix" is because they represented the antithesis of CCA's rules and thus had no market in the mainstream business of comics. I quote R. Crumb regarding underground comix: "People forget that that was what it was all about. That was why we did it. We didn't have anybody standing over us saying 'No, you can't draw this' or 'You can't show that'." The volume of underground comix was tiny compared to the "comics" market in the U.S. The only distribution outlets at the time were drug-culture related, like head shops. The distribution reminds me of anime in the early days. Living in a small Southern town in the late 60's, the rare copies I saw were brought back by university students. You had to know someone, or else be living in a large city, and then you had to be part of or venture into the drug culture (compare "otaku") to buy them. When cities began passing ordinances against "drug-related" businesses, even that distribution channel disappeared. Alternative comics, what we consider similar to manga today, were a direct descendant of underground comix, and started in the 1980's, not gaining popularity and wider distribution until the 90's. The whole discussion pertains to the fact that a manga-like market was not allowed to establish itself in the U.S. because underground and alternative comics were not distributed by comics publishers afraid to violate the CCA rules. Note that those rules weren't even patterned into "ratings". There was no G, PG, R, and X. Only G to the 10th power. Manga had no such restrictions beyond preventing access to hentai by children. Manga was and is sold, in all its adult sexual, violent and thematic glory, in every convenience store. Alternative comics required a completely new distribution system, that in fact relied heavily on mail order until the 90's. How many potential customers would thus have been exposed to them vs. the number of people walking into U.S. 7-Eleven stores daily? Not to say our puritanical society would have accepted them outright (obviously still doesn't), but the opportunity was not given them to decide. We've had these types of discussions before, and I'm well aware of your absolutist viewpoint towards the law. But you seem incapable of sensing that social processes produce similar results to law (which is simply a codification of those same processes, introducing criminalization for socially undesirable conduct). The difference is purely one of methodology, not substance. A social majority or ruling class opinion can restrict behaviors and affect economics as well as any law can. If you think that political correctness has not had economic effects, such as restricting certain artists in their revenue opportunities, you are quite naive. |
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