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NEWS: Funimation Starts Initiative for Co-Producing Anime


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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:35 am Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
Also, just because they are going to be co-producing a lot of these shows doesn't automatically make them non-anime. Several criteria would have to be met for that to happen.
I'd really like to hear this one.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:02 am Reply with quote
Reibooi wrote:
Anime fans would rather have real anime and not US stuff turned into so called anime meaning they are not the target market.

What is the target market who think anything animation is for children unless it's something along the lines of Family Guy, American Dad or the Simpsons.

So in the end you could say that US produced anime is even more of a niche the normal anime already is.


That seems like a totally baseless assumption. Why assume anime fans prefer Japanese animation when as you said, there is pretty much no similair animation in existence from the US? Isn't a more likely explanation that they simply like animation and therefore animation from their own country might actually be more popular.

I love anime because I like animation. I sometimes enjoy the Japanese influences in it but it can also be a pain. So while I'd never want to see Japanese animation disappear, I'd love to see more US stuff as well.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:39 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Reibooi wrote:
Anime fans would rather have real anime and not US stuff turned into so called anime meaning they are not the target market.

What is the target market who think anything animation is for children unless it's something along the lines of Family Guy, American Dad or the Simpsons.

So in the end you could say that US produced anime is even more of a niche the normal anime already is.


That seems like a totally baseless assumption. Why assume anime fans prefer Japanese animation when as you said, there is pretty much no similair animation in existence from the US? Isn't a more likely explanation that they simply like animation and therefore animation from their own country might actually be more popular.

I love anime because I like animation. I sometimes enjoy the Japanese influences in it but it can also be a pain. So while I'd never want to see Japanese animation disappear, I'd love to see more US stuff as well.


I don't think it's simply liking animation in general. If that were the case, everything would have a mostly equal response. Basically comes down to the content: the story, the characters, the presentation, the sensibilities involved.

edit:
We did have some non-comedic shows in the US aimed at teens but with US comic style: He-Man, Thundercats, and GI Joe. And later on with more anime-influenced style: the Titan AE movie, Gargoyles, Teen Titans, and now Avatar.
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ikillchicken



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:38 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
I don't think it's simply liking animation in general. If that were the case, everything would have a mostly equal response.


Yes, clearly I am not saying that the only appeal of anime is that it is in fact animated.
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:11 am Reply with quote
crilix wrote:
Personally, I think this is the beginning of anime losing its identity. If Funimation has any respect for the medium it's localizing, then they should call their original content something else than "anime."

Bah, what will calling it something other than "anime" achieve? If something will make Japanese animation lose its identity, it won't be the word shows they base on US franchises are marketed with. Think about it. Over in Japan, they don't even have a word for it.
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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:45 am Reply with quote
Ai no Kareshi wrote:
Bah, what will calling it something other than "anime" achieve? If something will make Japanese animation lose its identity, it won't be the word shows they base on US franchises are marketed with. Think about it. Over in Japan, they don't even have a word for it.
They don't have a word for what? Or are you just fooling yourself into thinking that Japanese anime fans call every piece of entertaining animation "anime"? Marketing like that is exactly what it can cause anime to lose its identity in the Western world, specifically because real anime have such a small following compared to some of the larger competing franchises.

I hope Twilight gets adapted into an "anime." Imagine the screaming tweeny crowds claiming vigorously how it's the hottest shit ever to come from Japan (having no idea what they are talking about) and how all Japanese men are gay. But then it's going to be too late to do anything other than regret and pray that Funimation or someone goes out of business soon. Food for thought.
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Ai no Kareshi



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:19 am Reply with quote
crilix wrote:
They don't have a word for what? Or are you just fooling yourself into thinking that Japanese anime fans call every piece of entertaining animation "anime"?

This ought to be common knowledge among anime fans by now, but in Japan, yes, "anime" is just an abbreviation for animation, just like "terebi" is an abbreviation for television.
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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:48 am Reply with quote
Ai no Kareshi wrote:
This ought to be common knowledge among anime fans by now, but in Japan, yes, "anime" is just an abbreviation for animation, just like "terebi" is an abbreviation for television.
This is a common misperception, I'm afraid. While it's just an abbreviation, Japanese anime fans make a concerned effort to label cartoons of foreign origin with proper adjectives or prefixes and separate them away from the more narrow group of Japanese made cartoons that are made for the Japanese. Just like the fan side likes to keep things separate, I've seen corporations like Disney Channel Japan to rather use "animation" instead of anime.

English language has a small advantage over Japanese. It has many words to describe different types of animation, such as "animation," "cartoon," and "anime." So Funimation using anime isn't only scrutiny against the identity of Japanese animation, it's scrutiny against the English language, which already has all the definitions neatly implemented. Why change them? Because some company wants to include the existing anime fanbase under their target demographic for a new product? Nothing wrong with that, but there are other ways of doing it. That or creativity has failed them.
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Ai no Kareshi



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:02 am Reply with quote
crilix wrote:
This is a common misperception, I'm afraid. While it's just an abbreviation, Japanese anime fans make a concerned effort to label cartoons of foreign origin with proper adjectives or prefixes and separate them away from the more narrow group of Japanese made cartoons that are made for the Japanese. Just like the fan side likes to keep things separate, I've seen corporations like Disney Channel Japan to rather use "animation" instead of anime.

I am by no means claming to be an expert on the Japanese fandom, but from the Japanese blogs and comments I have read over the years, I have never encountered any fan vehemently (or at all, really) using distinguishing labels for their locally produced animation from foreign animation. Sure, if the distinction is significant in context, they might "prefix" it, but that's the same us saying "French produced animation" for Dragon Flyz. Also, I'd wager a likely reason for Disney Channel Japan's choice is because "anime" can be seen as a more colloquial term.

crilix wrote:
So Funimation using anime isn't only scrutiny against the identity of Japanese animation, it's scrutiny against the English language, which already has all the definitions neatly implemented.

Neatly implemented? As we've seen, everyone here has their own definition of "anime". It might be that Funimation chose the word to identify the source of the animation as Japan. You can hardly wrong them for doing that.

crilix wrote:
Why change them? Because some company wants to include the existing anime fanbase under its seller demographic? Nothing wrong with that per se, but there are other ways of doing it. That or creativity has failed them.

I still fail to see why they need to find another term for it. You're not just saying this because you're afraid anime fans might lose their elite status, are you? Now I don't consider myself a fan of Western animation, but I'd love to see Japanese produced animation on a non-Japanese property make me go wow.
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Lothar



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:19 am Reply with quote
Ai no Kareshi wrote:
Bah, what will calling it something other than "anime" achieve?


The same thing identifying a wine by its source grape(s) achieves - giving the customer an idea of what they're purchasing based on criteria that they care about. Following your reasoning, wine drinkers shouldn't care what grape they're drinking, so long as they like it, and that's fine for most wine drinkers. For wine drinkers who consider themselves connoisseurs, however, the grape matters along with the the year of the vintage, the country it was produced in, and the means of production. Knowing these things helps them evaluate the wine they're drinking in terms of having each of these components of the physical wine explain the different levels of pleasure (or distaste) they're experiencing.

In much the same way, explaining an animation title's personal appeal or awfulness partly based on origin and marketing intent makes sense. Animation is fundamentally about culture. In our world, humans can be thought of almost as a species homo nationalis, where national context is critical to individual identity and cultural meaning. Therefore, which country an animation title comes from and who it is intended for matters if we want to not just enjoy it, but explain it in terms of culture.

That's why it matters whether or not we classify an animation title as "anime" or not. If animation companies are on board with this, then it makes it much easier to pick out what is "anime" and what isn't, and then that part of the work of analysis is done for us and we can move on to the next level. If the companies muddy the waters for us and call something that was co-produced by, say, Americans and Japanese people meant for an American market "anime", then it makes the task of analysis more difficult. That's to say nothing of trying to convince novices that what they're watching might not be "anime", because industry definitions have a habit of superseding ours in the novice's mind. Then when they try to do cultural analysis of anime, their own conclusions will be unrecognizable and nonsensical if they make the definition of "anime" too wide.
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Ai no Kareshi



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:26 am Reply with quote
I appreciate the wine analogy, Lothar. I think it was very effective in communicating your viewpoint on the matter.

However, and I could be wrong about this, probably the only people who would care whether such a show, animated in Japan, had Western involvement or was based on an American property, is us existing fans. Which I would say makes up a small percentage of the market they are trying to reach with this movement.
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Lothar



Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:33 am Reply with quote
Thank you for your appreciation. Yes, it's totally unsurprising that a capitalist industry might forgo a meaningful definition of a cultural product when doing so might increase profits. It doesn't mean I have to like it, especially when it makes talking about "anime" more difficult.
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The Overlord



Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:51 pm Reply with quote
It seems like some otakus don't know what they want, some otakus complain that the US animation industry isn't as mature as the Japanese one and then they complain about any anime based on Western property will somehow ruin anime. I mean what you want?
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crilix



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:26 pm Reply with quote
Ai no Kareshi wrote:
I still fail to see why they need to find another term for it. You're not just saying this because you're afraid anime fans might lose their elite status, are you?
What elite status? What I'm afraid of is these American produced "anime" becoming popular because well, let's face it, it's almost certain that more American fans of animation will enjoy content made specifically for their own sensibilities. If Funimation decides to promote these works as anime (I bet it's going to be something like calling certain titles "graphic novels" and certain others "manga"), then most likely fans of these works will be persuaded to use that term. This can be foreplay to a whole slew of problems. Japanese animation losing its unique English term is one thing, another is this new product taking away all the attention from anime (like Hollywood movies based on anime, they didn't bring any new anime fans in), the one that was already mentioned is making discussion about anime harder (the dilution of the term tsundere is a fine example).

It's like having an alien object stuck inside your body. It messes things up and needs to go out.
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strawberry-kun



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:35 pm Reply with quote
As long as it doesn't become a trend for anime to try and appeal to a western audience, I'm fine with this. My tastes are much more similar to the Japanese market than the American one. I probably won't be interested in any shows that come out of this, but if Funimation can make money by doing this, then go right ahead. I have to say though that I did like Witchblade, so I have some hope that some shows that I would like may come out of this.
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