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ANNCast - The Life and Kime of Geneon, USA


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Zac
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ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:09 pm Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:
Tyrenol wrote:
And honestly: I'd love if there was more straight-forward info as to why Geneon SUNK and how other US anime companies should avoid "adding cement to their own shoes whilst treading the Pacific."


Well, maybe you should, I don't know, LISTEN TO THE PODCAST???


He already said, Justin, he doesn't listen to "podcasts".

Tyrenol if you're not going to, in effect, "read the article" and then come stomping into the forums asking people to tell you what was said so you can confirm if your uninformed speculation was right or not, well, hey, that's not allowed, and it's pretty annoying so keep it up and out you go. Again.
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Primus



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 2613
Location: Toronto
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:13 pm Reply with quote
With Cardcaptors, Geneon never owned the actual license did they? I'm still under the impression Nelvana sublicensed distribution to them (Nelvana doesn't have an in-house DVD distributor). Their Cardcaptors website is still functioning. So I wouldn't be surprised if they still have it.
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grave_digger18



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 106
Location: quebec city
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:22 pm Reply with quote
Wow, that was the best podcast to date guys. keep it up!
And i'm also on the not quite finished baccano yet bandwagon. Although me it took me 5 episodes to finally get into it, kinda reminds me of a Tom Clancy novel where you can't keep up with each individual characters until you get midway through...

Anyways, you mentioned Justin that Heat Guy J is the worst streamer off the ANN website. Out of curiosity, what are the best streamers?
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3171
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:31 pm Reply with quote
Shale wrote:
Not to say they didn't have their share of terrible licenses, like Cybuster (less than 100 sales! That cracked me up.), but that's not enough to sink a company. Everybody's got some stinkers.


I think I'm the only person in North America that's proud to own that title Cool
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:50 pm Reply with quote
luffypirate85 wrote:
Shale wrote:
Not to say they didn't have their share of terrible licenses, like Cybuster (less than 100 sales! That cracked me up.), but that's not enough to sink a company. Everybody's got some stinkers.


I think I'm the only person in North America that's proud to own that title Cool


I would rather they had made an anime using the actual plotline from Super Robot Wars Gaiden, instead of just using the robot.

Also it was nice that they pointed out that Geneon Music made money because I would love to get my hands on some Giant Robo music.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:54 pm Reply with quote
Hey, I'm curious, was it asked (off air) or is it known, how that pricing research was done? I actually somewhat believe the "anecdotal evidence" Chad stated re: price not being a dominant factor in sales. But I'm curious because I could see a company watching things like Tenchi VHS (or DVD) go for various price points or the Champloos exploding when anime was in the "wild west" days. And then just extrapolating that a few years later when weary consumers were more price sensitive.

All in all though, GREAT podcast, and I find it interesting that for all the crap the "harem" and "moe" surges get, it's interesting that American fans (who buy) are so similar to Japanese fans in supporting that.
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luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3171
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:52 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
luffypirate85 wrote:
Shale wrote:
Not to say they didn't have their share of terrible licenses, like Cybuster (less than 100 sales! That cracked me up.), but that's not enough to sink a company. Everybody's got some stinkers.


I think I'm the only person in North America that's proud to own that title Cool


I would rather they had made an anime using the actual plotline from Super Robot Wars Gaiden, instead of just using the robot.


Although it was nothing like the Cybuster that I was used to I still enjoyed the cheese fest that it was. I almost shed a tear when spoiler[Masaki died. Wink] Get BV's release of Super Robot War OG Divine Wars if you want the real deal. It's well worth the money.
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Tyrenol



Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 398
Location: Northern California
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:57 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Since the podcast is long let's summarize for Tyrenol


Thank you, Charred Knight.

Zac wrote:
Tyrenol if you're not going to, in effect, "read the article" and then come stomping into the forums asking people to tell you what was said so you can confirm if your uninformed speculation was right or not, well, hey, that's not allowed, and it's pretty annoying so keep it up and out you go. Again.


"Uninformed?" Try "realistic."

Oh well... Arrow
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Central Coast
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:58 pm Reply with quote
I haven't listened to the podcast yet and I'll tell you why: Did you ask how Hajime no Ippo sold? I just don't want to come out disappointed. I've found a lot of crap on the internet, but the sales figures, or at least an estimate is something I've yet to found. I want to know if it was to the point that only 100 copies sold or something. I want to know if I was like one, of 10 people who bought the show as it was coming out. I would save up my lunch money for about three months to get one DVD. I missed the last DVD though.

If Hajime no Ippo: New Challenger was picked up, sub only, 13 episodes a piece I imagine it would do as well as at least You're Under Arrest. AT LEAST!
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:00 pm Reply with quote
luffypirate85 wrote:
Although it was nothing like the Cybuster that I was used to I still enjoyed the cheese fest that it was. I almost shed a tear when spoiler[Masaki died. Wink] Get BV's release of Super Robot War OG Divine Wars if you want the real deal. It's well worth the money.


I am sorry, I am not rich, if I did win the lottery than I am sure to buy it.

Tyrenol wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:
Since the podcast is long let's summarize for Tyrenol


Thank you, Charred Knight.



I was being sarcastic, this podcast is excellent, and you can never get the full story from a summary.
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Shale



Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 337
Location: The Middle of Nowhere, DE
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:10 pm Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:
I haven't listened to the podcast yet and I'll tell you why: Did you ask how Hajime no Ippo sold? I just don't want to come out disappointed.


They did, and believe me, you'd be disappointed.
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CrazyCanuck



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 96
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:11 pm Reply with quote
jgreen wrote:
Those sales numbers on the Rumiko Takahashi Anthology are just...heart-breaking. Damn. I was one of the proud few who bought that show, although that wasn't until it was in deep discount at Right Stuf.


That's sad. I actually pre-ordered all four volumes. The idea that I am a non-decimal percentage of sales... That's just sad.

Shale wrote:
Edit: Not to say they didn't have their share of terrible licenses, like Cybuster (less than 100 sales! That cracked me up.), but that's not enough to sink a company. Everybody's got some stinkers.


Heh. I own this one too.

PetrifiedJello wrote:
I walked away from this podcast feeling slightly guilty I'm not spending $500 for a singles DVD release because it'll help pay for anime to get into this country, but instead, wait until TRSI can offer it to me for $14.99.


And I admit this is part of the reason I do still buy singles. Someone has to or it will all go away. I'm not complaining about the shift to season sets, but I don't complain about the rare title that still comes out as singles.

All in all, I loved the podcast. I admit I only listen to it intermittently, but I'm very glad I listened to this one. After years of fans whining that they want to hear real numbers, I'm hoping this will shut them up for a while. Other then a few titles I would have loved to have heard in the 'lightning round' I think this was as complete as I could have hoped for.

As for price not affecting sales, that really is pretty true. Most of the shows Geneon released (or any of the other companies for that matter) are pretty niche. Niche titles in an already niche market. I mean, be honest, how many of you would have really bought Galaxy Angel Rune even if it had been at a reasonable price? For one-shots I can see price making a difference. Gunbuster probably would have sold more. But that's true for non-anime entertainment too. Bad movies still make money in theaters because people are willing to gamble $8-10 for two hours entertainment. People are willing to gamble $20 on a DVD. If it's a six disc series the number willing to gamble $120 ($20 per disc) isn't really much bigger then the number willing to gamble $180 ($30 per) or even $300 ($50 per). The die-hards will buy it regardless of price and the blind-buyers won't buy it unless it's way too cheap to turn a profit.

And while I do not want to imply that I endorse fansubs, I don't see them really being responsible for this phenomenon. In the pre-fansub days the die-hards still bought the legit copies. The blind-buyers would or wouldn't as whim dictated. Those who wanted to buy but couldn't/wouldn't at the price simply went without (or borrowed or rented copies). The only difference fansubs made in this aspect is that the last batch still see the show. I'm not saying fansubs aren't bad for the industry, they are. I just don't think they altered this particular facet of the industry. A mediocre show won't sell well with or without fansubs. Not at a profitable price anyhow. Again, a mediocre movie likely would sell much better without fansubs, but movies haven't been a particularly large fraction of anime titles released in quite some time.

Sadly there just aren't enough die-hards left to support the industry as we remember it. And that is a sad thing.
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MeggieMay



Joined: 08 Jun 2004
Posts: 607
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:16 pm Reply with quote
This was a great podcast this week! Very informative and I do wish you had talked another hour because I, for one, would have kept listening.

Now, as someone else mentioned the ADV Holiday sets are from 2008 Christmas season. While you hit the amusing part of the re-release issue with those, Zac, the main draw to buying those editions was the fact that for this set of releases ADV returned the stripped extras (from the thinpak releases) to the disks (I picked up the NGE one because of that, though admittedly on sale and just recently, and I'm actually trying to watch the series for the first time (I've seen parts of episodes but never actually sat down and just watched the series through) Razz ). Still, you should look up the threads on the sets in the AoD Cover Art Forum someday. There were some fun discussion last year about the sets and at least one funny (at least to me) parody cover of the NGE set though YMMV and it probably isn't quite as funny now as it was at the time.

As to Baccano!, glad to see you both finally discovered the show. This is one I stumbled onto by accident and it turned out to be the best show I'd seen in several years. I agree that the show has one of the worse first episodes I've seen. I felt the to characters who are basically there "to explain how the narrative works" just managed to make it make even less sense. As to it having a "bad ending," I know I didn't feel that way about it. While I wasn't as impressed with the OVA the actual ending of the show isn't that bad. It just isn't as good as the earlier part of the show. The OVA's pacing are different from the TV show and it covers spoiler[some characters who aren't even in the series (and a few who didn't get enough screen time)] (very minor potential spoiler but I don't want anyone to get upset). I just know that for a true "ending" of a TV show, if it didn't get a second season or more OVAs, the TV ending is actually better IMO.
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KanjiiZ



Joined: 28 Jun 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Central Coast
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
And I admit this is part of the reason I do still buy singles. Someone has to or it will all go away. I'm not complaining about the shift to season sets, but I don't complain about the rare title that still comes out as singles.


That format just has to die. Unless it's a short OVA or series, it just shouldn't come out like that. Companies have said it time and time again, "It's to get a new audience to the anime", but that's just not really going to happen. The average fan is not going to look at a DVD with 5 episodes at 30$ and go, "Okay, this seems like a good deal" as opposed to a 45 dollar set with thirteen episodes. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does this.

The only way to let it die is to not support it. Worked for Honneamise. This will backfire sometimes though. Some series don't come out in box set because it probably looked like no one wanted.

Listening to podcast now, and I gotta say: I didn't like Baccano!
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strawberry-kun



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 278
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:31 pm Reply with quote
KanjiiZ wrote:

That format just has to die. Unless it's a short OVA or series, it just shouldn't come out like that. Companies have said it time and time again, "It's to get a new audience to the anime", but that's just not really going to happen.

Companies also made more profit per unit sold with singles than with sets. Attracting new fans wasn't the only reason. I'm guessing that the switch to sets paid off with higher sales though, so sets are probably more profitable.

KanjiiZ wrote:
The only way to let it die is to not support it. Worked for Honneamise.

Honneamise is a bad example. They failed because they usually charged around $40-50 per DVD with less episodes on them than the average anime DVD at the time. They basically tried to apply the Japanese market mindset to R1 and failed miserably.
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