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ANNCast - The Life and Kime of Geneon, USA


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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1679
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:20 am Reply with quote
grave_digger18 wrote:
Anyways, you mentioned Justin that Heat Guy J is the worst streamer off the ANN website. Out of curiosity, what are the best streamers?


Well, changes month to month as we put up new shows, but so far the big hits have been:

- Ouran (no big shock)
- School Rumble (2 moreso than 1)
- Girls High
- Glass Fleet
- Kannagi

Too soon to tell on the stuff that just went up last month, but so far Heroic Age is off to a promising start. What seems to be popular are the shows that didn't get so much buzz, but people are nonetheless curious about.

Primus wrote:
With Cardcaptors, Geneon never owned the actual license did they? I'm still under the impression Nelvana sublicensed distribution to them (Nelvana doesn't have an in-house DVD distributor). Their Cardcaptors website is still functioning. So I wouldn't be surprised if they still have it.


That's right, they were sub licensing from Nelvana. I asked Nelvana about broadcast rights for that a couple years ago (when I was still with iaTV) and they said at that time that they were going to expire in about a year. So surely it's gone by now, and they just haven't taken it off their website. These contracts generally go in 7-year increments.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:28 am Reply with quote
Er...you're actually the second last people to get to Baccano! I'm on the same page as you. I'll get the boxed set in a month. I'm glad to hear you guys are so positive about it though.

Are there Fry's in Canada? As far as I know there aren't. In fact, I haven't heard of most of the stores you mention.

I guess I'm just vastly more manly than your average anime fan because I actually like sports shows. I just have trouble with Japanese sports shows. There's sort of a cultural barrier there.

Justin sums things up well. Massive clusterfuck at every stage. This is your anime industry in a nutshell. Seriously though, you guys did a fantastic job here. This was both hilarious and super informative to listen to.

Case wrote:
And in this post-4chan era, "LOL [Genre]FAGS" seems to be the lowest common denominator for what passed for wit among anime fans, and in the pursuit of the lulz and attention that's exactly what ANN delivers time and again under the editorial philosophy Zac outlined last week.


Here's the thing about 4chan. I hate it and so I don't go there. Apply this principle to yourself and ANN. The result will be beneficial to us all.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:02 am Reply with quote
jsevakis wrote:
grave_digger18 wrote:
Anyways, you mentioned Justin that Heat Guy J is the worst streamer off the ANN website. Out of curiosity, what are the best streamers?


Well, changes month to month as we put up new shows, but so far the big hits have been:

- Ouran (no big shock)
- School Rumble (2 moreso than 1)
- Girls High
- Glass Fleet
- Kannagi

Too soon to tell on the stuff that just went up last month, but so far Heroic Age is off to a promising start. What seems to be popular are the shows that didn't get so much buzz, but people are nonetheless curious about.


Girl's High?

Wow, I can understand School Rumble, Ouran, and Kannagi but Glass Fleet, and Girl's high was unexpected.

I should check out Heroic Age, as I am a big fan of the character designer. He may just make the same face, but they are at least good looking faces.
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Case



Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 1016
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:19 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Here's the thing about 4chan. I hate it and so I don't go there. Apply this principle to yourself and ANN. The result will be beneficial to us all.


Because then I won't have to bother making comments on ANN editorial practice, which you can then jump in and comment back on?

QED my friend, QED.
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Asrialys



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1126
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:58 am Reply with quote
Glad to see that Cardcaptor Sakura did so well before the controversy. People are still scrounging for those DVDs. Even though I own both book releases, I still need four more of the singles...

Kenotic wrote:
As I was listening to the show I kept thinking of all of the series I watched over the past 5-6 years that I kept coming back to: Lain, HR, Last Exile, ROD The TV, Technolyze, Kamichu, Higurashi.....and then I get a little depressed.

Ah yes, I'd love to know how Lain, Last Exile, Texhnolyze, Kamichu, and especially R.O.D The TV did. The room wasn't quite packed, but a lot of people did attend the Anime Expo 2005 panel celebrating the final DVD release of R.O.D The TV.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:56 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:

I am sorry, I am not rich, if I did win the lottery than I am sure to buy it.


It's not a matter of being rich. I never understood people who say they'd rather buy one title because it's cheap vs splurging for what they want. If I want Super Robot Wars, why would I buy Gundam just because it's cheaper? In the end, I'll be unhappy with the settle & I'll probably go out & buy the one I want. I mean, if I want chinese, mexican will still fill me, but I'll still be wanting chinese until I get around to buying it. Why settle?

I have about 500 Geneon dvds. Not sure how many different titles that translates to. I have Cybuster, Rumiko Takahashi Anthology. They had some great horror (Hellsing, Requiem From the Darkness)
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Jedi Master



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:27 am Reply with quote
asimpson2006 wrote:
I was sadden to hear that Ikki Tousen didn't do so well since it's like one of my favorite shows and I though fanservice type shows sold well here in the United States.


Weird, I thought I heard Kime say "made money" for Ikki Tousen.

UPDATE: I downloaded the mp3 and listened to that section (1:11:12) again. I'm certain he said "it made money". I also liked Ikki Tousen and wanted to make sure I heard correctly rather than letting my fandom color my perception.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:38 am Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:

I am sorry, I am not rich, if I did win the lottery than I am sure to buy it.


It's not a matter of being rich. I never understood people who say they'd rather buy one title because it's cheap vs splurging for what they want. If I want Super Robot Wars, why would I buy Gundam just because it's cheaper? In the end, I'll be unhappy with the settle & I'll probably go out & buy the one I want. I mean, if I want chinese, mexican will still fill me, but I'll still be wanting chinese until I get around to buying it. Why settle?

I have about 500 Geneon dvds. Not sure how many different titles that translates to. I have Cybuster, Rumiko Takahashi Anthology. They had some great horror (Hellsing, Requiem From the Darkness)


I don't have 400+ dollars lying around to support such a ridiculous price, not when I don't have a job, and can barely buy any luxury item like anime. I can only afford anime on sale, and most of my purchases go to manga such as Negima, and FMA.


I should point out that they did say that Ikkitousen made money which supports my belief that fanservice doesn't harm sales like a lot of people think.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 14522
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:01 am Reply with quote
Justin: Welcome back!

"I throw nothing away"

That applies to all the freebie toys I've collected over the years. Probably a regret from the time I tossed my old Transformers and Silver Hawks shit away for video games.

"It was all too expensive for me"

You shoulda seen the FY box-sets. Wink But yeah, I'm actually surprised that the company did so well in the beginning, considering its titles were priced even higher than the subbed Viz and ADV stuff.

"[Lupin has] never been popular in America."

It's not popular, but it does have a fanbase.

Zac: "It's hard to believe [places like Virgin and Suncoast are gone.]"

Well, for me, it's easy, because those stores rarely offered competitive prices, outside of the holidays. And I'm sure their rents were pretty high, considering all the unnecessary space they purchased, in an attempt to monopolize malls.

"Pretty empty for a Black Friday"

Well, the economy still sucks, so...

"What?![Reaction to weak Rumiko Takahashi Anthology numbers.]

I'm actually not entirely surprised, because, as UY fans know, she's not big enough to sustain a domestic market outside of IY and Ranma. In fact, the Mermaid and OPG manga re-releases from Viz only got released here, because the translations were already mostly done, so there was less investment cost in them. So in the sense of one-shots and anthologies, CLAMP probably does better than her here.

Quote:
People have tried with Utena. And that's all I'm allowed to say about that.


Yeah, I remember CPM had problems bringing it all out when they did have the rights to all of it. You don't have to comment, but I'm betting it's that reverse-importation crap rearing its head on this one.

Quote:
TV broadcast was never a big revenue stream for anime, ever.


Woodhead said that was the reason he didn't join that bandwagon, because he had to pay for the broadcast.

Chad: "34.95 for one Episode of Gunbuster, subtitles only!"

Yeah, but you could rent Gunbuster from Blockbuster.

"Heat Guy J sounded like a gem of a property, because it was from the guys who did Escaflowne"

Well, that was your first mistake, since Escaflowne, while more popular here than in Japan, wasn't really huge in general.

As for Dante, if only there could be a follow-up ep, I'd ask why, of all the Go Nagai stuff Geneon chose to license, would they pick up the one with the fugliest covers? Anyway, any chance you can bring John O'Donnell for a future podcast? As for Tetsujin, it might have been easier on you, if you didn't go for the LA movie at the same time or released it first. The problem with Ippo, though-from a marketing POV-is it's too much of a sausage fest, and the covers didn't help much. Yeah, the Baki show suffers a similar problem, but the covers for that series at least emphasize what the lead is up against better.

"Anime fans are too passive when it comes to sports anime"

Maybe because too many of them don't get out enough to play sports themselves? Wink

Case:
Quote:
Taken as a whole, Chad's comments seem to insinuate rather damningly that Geneon's death-spiral was precipitated by and intrinsically linked to the rise of fansubs (and internet buzz in general perhaps).


Well, yeah, stingy fans did play a part, but again, as Geneon points out, those collections did sell better than the individuals.

jgreen:
Quote:
It's kind of surprising to hear how much animosity there was towards Animerica, though, considering their coverage was pretty even-handed as long as there wasn't a new Viz property to push (which was pretty rare).


Well, Animerica did probably charge a fortune for ads, considering how insane their mags were priced...

Jello: Don't feel guilty. You only pay that kind of dough for the primo stuff, not the average stuff.

Shale: The over-priced stuff made money, but only for a small audience.

Kanji: I doubt it, because Ippo does not have chick appeal here.
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: USA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:20 am Reply with quote
Jedi Master wrote:
asimpson2006 wrote:
I was sadden to hear that Ikki Tousen didn't do so well since it's like one of my favorite shows and I though fanservice type shows sold well here in the United States.


Weird, I thought I heard Kime say "made money" for Ikki Tousen.

UPDATE: I downloaded the mp3 and listened to that section (1:11:12) again. I'm certain he said "it made money". I also liked Ikki Tousen and wanted to make sure I heard correctly rather than letting my fandom color my perception.


Maybe he did say he made money. It is hard to get every detail of what is being said, since I was listening to this at work, and my work headset has one ear piece.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8181
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:37 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
I don't have 400+ dollars lying around to support such a ridiculous price, not when I don't have a job, and can barely buy any luxury item like anime. I can only afford anime on sale, and most of my purchases go to manga such as Negima, and FMA.


I should point out that they did say that Ikkitousen made money which supports my belief that fanservice doesn't harm sales like a lot of people think.
And there lies the rub of the matter. I don't know the situation at all, but I will speculate that the majority of today's fans are young students living with their parents, or unemployed adults stuggling to make ends meet. Either will naturally not have large savings, or disposable income to spend supporting an expensive hobby as anime and manga. However having said that, for Geneon this wasn't the case when they pulled out of the west back then. Dentsu had stepped into a dying branch of Pioneer Electronics when they bought the rights back in what? 2004? They had been struggling to keep it alive from the get go. Yes they made bad buying decisions, but not all their titles were dross. Dentsu isn't a small business by any means, but if Navarre ever treats FUNi like Dentsu did Geneon, FUNi will be down in the mud along side Geneon Ent. US in no time too. I find a lot is said that the reason anime fails is because it's not on mainstream TV. That may have a contributing factor but it's certainly not the definitive one. My feeling has always been, apart from dedicated conventions, and the odd magazine, and web sites, there has been virtually no general advertising that sparks the interest of the people who probably have never heard of the term "anime", or "manga". It always seems to be preaching to the converted without reaching out to the uninitiated and there it stays with the walls of its self imposed exile. Lets face it, one is not likely to see Ikki Tousen on CN, or Nick even with a "grave yard" schedule. but a 30 sec ad after the watershed would, I think, been better than nothing at all, as any fisherman will tell you; you can't catch fish without some kind of bait on the hook. Wink
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:53 am Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
It's not a matter of being rich. I never understood people who say they'd rather buy one title because it's cheap vs splurging for what they want. If I want Super Robot Wars, why would I buy Gundam just because it's cheaper?


Well that's kind of basic human nature. It really depends on how much they value the series in question though. I mean certainly you wouldn't buy Gundam if you have no desire to see it. However, if you kind of would like to see it still then you might. Lets use another example: Lets say I want one of Bandai Visual's premium movie releases. I don't have enough so I can either buy a regular movie or save up. Here's the thing though. That money I'll have to save up could also be spent. So really, I'm not just choosing one other cheaper movie instead. With the money I have now and the money I'd have to save later, I could actually buy several other movies. While I may not want any one of them as much as the Bandai Visual one, perhaps I value being able to see several different other movies instead. Sure I'll still want to see the other one but hey, that's life. You have a limited supply of money and so you have to buy what's most valuable to you.

Case wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:
Here's the thing about 4chan. I hate it and so I don't go there. Apply this principle to yourself and ANN. The result will be beneficial to us all.

Because then I won't have to bother making comments on ANN editorial practice, which you can then jump in and comment back on? QED my friend, QED.


Okay...I'm not sure that really makes sense but whatever. Seriously man. Why do you keep coming here if you hate it so much? You've made it quite clear that you really don't like ANN and hey, that's cool. I may not agree but you're entitled to your preferences. Why though would you continue to come here over an extended period of time just to complain about how you don't like it here? It really makes no sense. I mean you must know that nobody really takes your complaints seriously anymore. In fact, people pretty much ignore you. What do you think you're accomplishing?
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Baltimoron



Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Charm City
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:51 am Reply with quote
The best ANNcast so far, no doubt. And it actually came at the perfect time. The fall of Geneon came up in a conversation I was having on Wednesday with an acquaintance whose business has some experience licensing Japanese properties. He, like me, was under the impression that the forced licensing of bad titles was what killed the company. I'll have to send him a link to the show so he can get a more complete picture.

What this glimpse of the economics of anime exposes is that ambitious action-oriented projects that aren't formulaic shonen money machines like Bleach and Naruto are probably going to become even more scarce. Action is expensive to animate well and the sales climate of cheap DVD sets and low bids for licenses means that shows will continue to be produced on limited budgets. Enjoy Sword of the Stranger and the rebuild of Eva, because it looks like we're in for a long period of cheap moe and ten year olds with spiky hair punching the crap out of one another.


Last edited by Baltimoron on Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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rinmackie



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 1040
Location: in a van! down by the river!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:35 am Reply with quote
Thank you Mohawk, for pointing out what I've often mentioned in the past. The fact that the anime industry doesn't even try to reach out to the mainstream is to me, at least, the real reason the industry struggles so much. Unfortunately, I think a lot of anime fans prefer that it remain niche and the companies are probably under the impression that the mainstream wouldn't understand or accept anime. Which to a certain degree , may be true, but they should at least try. Also, the fact that so far no one, except me, has commented on your post, further supports my belief that no one cares.
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Baltimoron



Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Charm City
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:45 am Reply with quote
rinmackie wrote:
Thank you Mohawk, for pointing out what I've often mentioned in the past. The fact that the anime industry doesn't even try to reach out to the mainstream is to me, at least, the real reason the industry struggles so much. Unfortunately, I think a lot of anime fans prefer that it remain niche and the companies are probably under the impression that the mainstream wouldn't understand or accept anime. Which to a certain degree , may be true, but they should at least try. Also, the fact that so far no one, except me, has commented on your post, further supports my belief that no one cares.


How would you suggest the anime industry further reach out to the mainstream?

Anime is already sold through big box retail chains like Best Buy and Fry's and televised on SyFy, Cartoon Network, and Disney. Should anime DVDs be in other chain stores like Target? If so, how do you propose sales people in the industry convince Target's buyers that anime is worth their while? Should anime publishers start advertising in high circulation magazines? If so, from where will the money to purchase expensive ad space come? That question times a million if you think that Funimation and Bandai should be buying ad time on TV.

"Reaching out" isn't a matter of willing it to happen. It necessarily takes large amounts of money to crack the mainstream market. Where will an industry experiencing a contraction independent of the greater economic climate get the requisite funds?
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