Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! 2010 SUPER EDITION
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Daichi09
Posts: 20 |
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As for the sub/dub debate. I'm a lover of all languages, Japanese, English, Chinese, Klingon, Esperanto or what have you. I just hate it when I get stuck with a dubbed only audio track. A lot of kids shows tend to be dub only. This can somewhat be understandable, yet still disappointing.
A recent example is the upcoming Kurokami Bluray (not DVD) release that is English dub only. While I love the English dub and 25$ price point, I was really looking forward to having a trilingual HD anime series. The Japanese release which features all three languages (and no sub tracks) at ~100$ a pop, just a bit too rich for my blood. While I understand it's a silly licensing issue, it's just hurt on my brain when I see this happen. 
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Regarding Monica's post: Steamboat Willie was designed for adults as much as it was for children; ALL moving pictures in 1927 were like that. It was also not the first animated feature film in America. That would be Gertie the Dinosaur, if you're talking about length and it being the centerpiece of the exhibit, though what constitutes a "feature film" during the time before movies began to have a set length and play in theaters one at a time is questionable... The Lumiére Bros.' "Workers Leaving a Factory" could be a feature film, which is just a few moments of people, well, leaving a factory. The drawings painted onto the glass plates in the Phantasmagoria and Magic Lantern exhibits could be "feature films" too despite looping a few times each second. If we accept that, then Steamboat Willie would've been made when there were already hundreds of animated feature films. Mickey Mouse is not even the first cartoon series; Oswald the Lucky Rabbit was Walt Disney's first character brought to the public and starred in several slapstick comedies before he and Ub Iwerks made Steamboat Willie.
Steamboat Willie is merely when animation was solidifying as a medium, gaining rules and complex story structure. Your point on it being for kids is incorrect; rather, animation until 1927 was an experiment, both to see what can be done with animation and to see if people will come to the theaters to watch it. I don't think the animators cared who their audience was, just that there was even an audience to begin with. That animation in the USA became a kids' thing didn't occur until the Hays Code was in place and the Walt Disney Company chose to remain a family-focused company rather than the gritty films noir and melodramas (genre-speaking) of the day. I feel no anger in this, by the way. It's such a common misconception that Steamboat Willie is the first cartoon ever made that I try to show that it isn't true, bit by bit. I'd also have to say that regarding point 2a Translation, translating a production is only half of the way there; adaptation is the other half. What might be instantly understood to an anime fan might be completely awkward to someone not familiar with visual signs in an anime or of Japanese culture and history. In addition, dubs have the additional burden of needing the lines to be about as long as the original language's lines with pauses where needed. I've never seen the "It's painful" line, but that line seems very short. You can't possibly talk about a heavy period in three syllables. That phrase alone is four.
Astro Boy is mainstream where you're at? No one's ever heard of that series around here. I remember a university class where there was a screening of the pilot episode and only a handful of people had even heard of it or Osamu Tezuka. Nothing Astro Boy ever sells around here either--not the manga, not the DVD sets, not the merchandise, not Omega Factor (the GBA game that was very well received in every way BUT sales numbers), and most certainly not the movie. The 2000s remake of the show flopped after three weeks on Kids' WB! and after one week on Toonami, to the point where Tom, the Toonami host, actually said, "Astro Boy gets no love here in the States." Astro Boy is more like a cult thing around here, except this cult is actively trying to get the series into the public but the public wants absolutely nothing to do with the franchise.
I thought that was to avoid legal trouble with Disney as his name would sound too similar to that of El Zorro. Granted, his name literally translates to "The Fox" in Spanish so it someone else sharing that can't be THAT rare, but these are copyright attorneys we're talking about here. 4Kids and Viz, when dealing with Mega Man NT Warrior, changed Aquaman's name to Spoutman despite the Mega Man Aquaman looking and behaving nothing like DC Comics's Aquaman and the WB! Network and DC Comics both owned by Time Warner; and Capcom not getting any trouble from DC when Mega Man 8 came out.
No, that's a parody. A parody makes fun of some specific creative work, category of creative work, or historical event. Its target is specific and doesn't have any sort of message, aside from a possible "improve this because these are the flaws." A satire makes fun of human behavior, such as culture. The purpose of a satire is a moral message. For instance, Spaceballs is a parody because its target is Star Wars, a creative work. Get Smart is a parody because its target is the spy thriller. Superbad is a satire because its target is spiritual fulfillment in a limited amount of time and argues that colleges need to support strong friendships rather than trying to break them. Dick is both in that it parodies the Nixon administration and satirizes by showcasing the butterfly effect at work, arguing that sometimes, we need to accept that not all social disasters were caused by some real-world villain. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Dude, it wasn't in the forum ... it was in Brian's original article, which presumably he was paid to write and someone else was paid to edit. And if Brian will now feel self-conscious and hesitate in the interests of correct puncutation, then yes, it's worth that 'pain.' Yeesh. No need to take that phrase so literally. Fortunately, the way this forum works, I don't need your approval or for you to condone my behaviour. But thanks for coming out, even if it was just to misinterpet my post. |
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mo-chan
 Posts: 38 Location: San Francisco, CA |
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Wait - is that? Oho! It is! Thank goodness! A light in my stormy night! I shall call my light...umm, let me think, here...Keo-sama! Too much? Keo-dono? eh, kawaii desu!! Keo-dono, arigato gozaimasu!
Zaku, as much as I appreciate your correction of my Italian (which is not a language I profess to have any skill at, mind you), you seemed to have proven my point for me nonetheless. How? Because regardless of whether or not I got the i at the end of the word right - you still understood what I meant. As indefatigable as my self-confidence is, you and a thousand others just like you could never actually hope to begin to silence me using that tactic (actually I'm not saying you as in you specifically, I mean you as in nit-pickers who are trying to clown folks into being quiet on boards like this, so please don't take this personally zaku, because actually I appreciated your comment, I'm just getting swept up in the moment, so if you'll excuse me for a moment--), but I do feel for others who might not yet have raised their stamina points quite as high as mine are, and so find themselves paralyzed by these kind of confidence breakers. The internet is supposed an open discourse, not a testing ground. OK - and that is my last on that tired subject, so even if you've got something to say to me about it, unless you PM me, I probably won't answer - goodie for you - this means you get the last word. Now then onto what REALLY matters the answer to your question Zaku is YES - I believe Princess IS on DVD for two reasons - as I said earlier I watched it on NETFLIX - if it wasn't available on DVD, I wouldn't have been able to do that; two, I happened to receive a PM from a little birdie just moments ago who told me they were waiting for a copy in the mail. However, I believe you could order it from Netflix, too, if you have an account with them - or you could just Watch It Instantly using that feature of your account, as I did. |
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mo-chan
Posts: 38 Location: San Francisco, CA |
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leafy - a right and proper response if ever I saw one, and I could tell it was not written in anger without you even saying so, but thanks for clarifying that point anyways. I guess I should have taken more time to go into detail - if you were to ask the average joe walking down the street in America what they believe to be the first animated film in American history, I guarantee almost all of them would either describe or name Steamboat Willie for you. And then if you were to ask them if they thought that Mickey Mouse and Disney characters in general were targeted at adults, young adults, or children, I do believe while some of them might argue that"the stories are for all ages", the majority would give you the lightning-fast answer of "kids".
One fact that cannot be overlooked is the stranglehold over the animation industry in America that the Disney empire held for over 50 years, which we are only just now barely beginning to come away from. My point was this: as a result of this monopoly, most adults in America, heck, most everyone in America sees anything animated, they automatically think, "Oh that must be for kids, or at least not for adults," -- and that is why animation on the level of what we see coming out of Japan and the occasional offering from other countries is simply something the big studios here are having a hard time understanding could & would be successful, especially if they were to hype it the way they do all the other meaningless drivel the do currently. The reason I am as big an Asian film/TV fan, otaku, and gamer as I am today is a direct result of the American entertainment industry's ongoing commitment to "reality" programming, remakes of stories I have already heard/read more than once, simple-minded, teenaged soap-opera films and TV show, and, worst of all for me, the never-ending torrential flood of redundant, cliched, and so-not-funny-anymore MA-rated animated half-hour shows filled with nothing but toilet humor, violence without purpose, message or meaning and people making fun of one another for horrible reasons, without recourse. I can see all that just by walking down the street, or going out on the weekend to a club - why would I want to waste my time watching it when my goal is to be entertained? |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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uh... what? what is even going on in this thread anymore. i mean sheesh i have no idea |
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mo-chan
Posts: 38 Location: San Francisco, CA |
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Agreed! and someone else paid to edit........*literally on the floor laughing right now* what's funny about this whole thing is that I believe what the original question intended to ask is which genres do we feel don't get enough consideration for release by the Powers That Be (Funimation and the like) in North America? I would have to say number one in my opinion on that list - and I would like to remind everyone that I am a girl, I am stating this as a matter of fact - are Yaoi titles. Some of which have truly excellent writing - for example: Junjou Romantica, both seasons. I have personally watched this series, and I was in tears by the end of the first episode. You see, I understand quite well when I am watching a love story, and am not hindered in the least when it just happens to be between two persons of the same sex. It could be between two dogs and I'd still get it. Hey, that sounds familiar somehow....*wink* Although I believe Junjou is a bad example - as I think it is actually going to be dubbed...there are a lot of other yaoi titles with great writing though. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Oh no there was a punctuation mistake in the column, glad we had you here to run into the forums and act like a ridiculous drama queen about it! By the way you misspelled both "punctuation" and "misinterpret", genius. |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Speaking as the little birdie in question, Princess has been released on DVD in the UK by Tartan Video. I have no idea of what its availability might be in the USA but the British disc can be imported fairly cheaply. |
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Zaku71
Posts: 4 |
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Thank you. I'm more interested in this version (I live in Italy  )
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Thank you. Those should be 'punctuation' and 'misinterpret', respectively. Mea culpa. Unlike some people, I have no problem apologizing for and correcting my mistakes. And I can bear the 'pain' of people pointing them out. Not sure how I acted like a 'ridiculous drama queen,' however. As far as I can tell, I'm not the one who made this a bigger deal than it needed to be. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Satire is actually a type of parody. All satires parody an aspect of human life, but a parody doesn't satirize anything.
This doesn't make one any worse than the other as a genre, as there have been brilliant cases of both as there have been horrible cases of both.
Nah, it was just the assertion that Steamboat Willie is the first American animated cartoon when it was far from it. It's the phrase "I think we all know that..." that got me to want to say what I did. If you do mean the impression people have, then that I agree with. (Disney is in the process of heavily promoting Oswald, by the way.) If it's the "Animation Age Ghetto" you're talking about, then you're absolutely right--there is most definitely an impression among Americans at large that any sort of animation is either for kids or is raunchy over-the-top stuff for adults. On the other hand, John Lasseter and the people at Pixar directly below him don't consider their movies as kids' entertainment. Nothing annoys Lasseter more than someone telling him that his movies are for kids. Very rare is a serious animated series for adults to enjoy, and when that happens, the show struggles to find any meaningful ratings when brought primetime. However, that shows like Batman: The Animated Series and Morel Orel even exist is proof that there are people trying to get American animation to be taken seriously. (I hope you don't lump shows like South Park and The Boondocks together in that last category of yours, as all too often, I encounter people who have never watched these shows and think they're all toilet humor and fart jokes when they're actually intelligent and character-driven shows.)
The Adventures of Don Quixote, the novel by Miguel Cervantes, is in the public domain in the United States. Anyone is free to excerpt anything from that book as they wish. I had reckoned El Zorro was the reason Roronoa Zoro's name was changed, as Disney still owns North American rights to that name and Japanese merchandise still calls him "Zoro." (That being said, there seems to be no agreement as to whether the top-hatted skeleton is named Brook or Brooke, so One Piece English names aren't necessarily carved in stone.) I have no proof I can point to though, so I freely admit this is just speculation on my part. |
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