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Shelf Life - Sugar and Spice


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Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Whoa, I read 9 pages of that, just to make sure nobody already said what I want to say. I'm safe:

@Ichi- Kick ass blind girls are awesome! All super blind people are awesome! I'm quite biased since I myself am eye-injured, visually impaired, legally blind, blindish--whatever a bad case of toxic epidermal nucrolysis caused eye issues can be called. So when I see kick ass completely blind characters--such as Marvel Comics' Daredevil, Toph from Avatar: The Last Airbender, or Jin's female samurai antagonist in that one episode of Samurai Champloo, I take notice and root for them. They're fantasy archetypes that give me hope.

The movie sounds like fun, the dub sounds unintentionally funny, and I really liked the B-movie "Dororo" (based on the Tezuka manga), so this sound right up my alley. I hope I get a chance to check it out someday.
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rainbowcourage



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 1216
Location: what is commonly known as "hell week"
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:33 pm Reply with quote
I find it funny how many people predicted "fanboy/girl rage" right off the bat. We started the thread with:

Quote:

D...Did you just call Horo a tsundere? To quote the great Inigo Montoya 'there will be blood tonight!' ...in the forum that is.


Seriously, most of the posts on "tsundereness" have been totally reasonable. How many people have actually flamed the thread in a ridiculous or unreasonable way? If posters keep talking about the "crazed fans" it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If a discussion gets out of hand the mods will handle it, the end.


erinfinnegan wrote:


What do you mean by "objective quality"? Like, was the animation quality good? Was the plot great? How was the character design and the dialog? Was this a bare bones DVD release, or did it have good extras and a dub?

All of the above could be true, but if I hate the main character and I ask myself "Would I watch this again?" and the answer is "No" it's not Shelf Worthy. We're not living in the laser disc era anymore, you can try before you buy.


So first, I understand that this is a column. Which means it is purely subjective opinion, which means I have no right to complain (merely to disagree, occasionally). And yes, "objective quality" is a bit of an oxymoron, but I do believe in some sort of universal standard--shows can be picked apart and analyzed. I believe that those with objective quality carry themselves on most fronts; they have a thought-provoking or emotional story not based on gratuity and low-level intelligence, substantial character development, and usually technical merits like animation or music etc. etc. Maybe I can't put these universal standards into words (I'm treading on dangerous ground here) but I know that I do believe that the whole idea of complete subjectivity is bullshit.

What I'm getting at, I suppose, is the distinction between love and appreciation. Say, for instance, you watch something like Mushi-shi; I think it's a masterpiece, and many others do. Maybe even you think it's a masterpiece, but that little something didn't click for you--you might rewatch it at some point but it's not a favorite of yours, however objectively you tried to rate it (this is what they call metaknowledge, I believe). So, you can appreciate it for its quality but it's not near and dear to your heart--it's not as clear-cut as "well, it was flawed in x,y, and z ways." Does that make sense?

That experience for me is RahXephon. I recognize its merits as a show and can appreciate them, but it's not especially significant for me.

I guess this isn't as relevant here since Shelf Life is more about quick impressions than an actual review. I just wanted to explain myself.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:28 pm Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:

Off the top of my head:
Tsundere
Moe
Loli/Pedo-bait
The phrase: "The dub is better" (everyone in this forum knows Japanese)
Parody


1. Editorial policy is not and never will be determined by the forumgoers. Period.

2. Telling my writers to never ever use certain words because the fans can't stop fighting over what they mean is basically just saying 'OK well people can't be reasonable, understanding or even remotely charitable about this sort of thing so let's start censoring ourselves', which to me is pretty wimpy.
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
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Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:36 pm Reply with quote
Whoa, Zac. You misunderstood. Erin said in the part I quoted that she wanted a list of words that would trigger crazy forum goers and keep everything politically correct. She was sarcastically asking for a list and I was sarcastically giving her one. I wasn't actually telling her avoid those words.

Sorry if that somehow wasn't clear.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:39 pm Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
Whoa, Zac. You misunderstood. Erin said in the part I quoted that she wanted a list of words that would trigger crazy forum goers and keep everything politically correct. She was sarcastically asking for a list and I was sarcastically giving her one. I wasn't actually telling her avoid those words.

Sorry if that somehow wasn't clear.


We have a whole lot of forum goers here who spend a lot of time telling my writers what to do and how they should do things. I don't take any chances nor do I want any speck of the notion that we would bow to whatever the nitpicky-whining-of-the-week is.

If I actually operated that way, I think there might be one or two things my writers could actually write about. Everything else would be verboten because 2 or 3 otaku decided to get their panties in a twist over it for a few days.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8458
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:41 pm Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
Then again, the readers needn't be so sensitive about it, either. It's all in good fun. It's a cartoon review, not a report in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Is this really coming from the guy who bashes anything English Dragonball Z related and seems to be personally offended when people say they like the Funi Dub the best?


I'm not personally offended by that at all. I pity the people who enjoy being talked down to by that dub and I think they're delusional for believing they're the majority opinion.
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6712
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:45 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
We have a whole lot of forum goers here who spend a lot of time telling my writers what to do and how they should do things. I don't take any chances nor do I want any speck of the notion that we would bow to whatever the nitpicky-whining-of-the-week is.

If I actually operated that way, I think there might be one or two things my writers could actually write about. Everything else would be verboten because 2 or 3 otaku decided to get their panties in a twist over it for a few days.

Oh, I know that. I may not have been a part of this forum for very long, but I've been here long enough to know that "real fans" like telling you and your writers how to do their job. I was actually hoping that list could become one big gag and everyone would keep adding words to the list. Guess I was wrong.

penguintruth wrote:
I'm not personally offended by that at all. I pity the people who enjoy being talked down to by that dub and I think they're delusional for believing they're the majority opinion.

EXACTLY! You're sensitive about it. I'm not going to dig much deeper because your a 1000 times more passionate about it than I'll ever be, but I thought it was funny that you were telling others not to take it seriously and you're seriously hardcore about DBZ.

EDIT: Actually, I have to say this and hopefully drop the subject here: Don't "pity" me or anyone else because we prefer the Funi dub. That's just a ridiculous thing to say.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:01 pm Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
EXACTLY! You're sensitive about it. I'm not going to dig much deeper because your a 1000 times more passionate about it than I'll ever be, but I thought it was funny that you were telling others not to take it seriously and you're seriously hardcore about DBZ.

EDIT: Actually, I have to say this and hopefully drop the subject here: Don't "pity" me or anyone else because we prefer the Funi dub. That's just a ridiculous thing to say.


I think you're really misinterpreting my words, but that's fine.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:44 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
Dorcas_Aurelia wrote:
Shelf Life wrote:
Thematically, the series is slightly reminiscent of Neil Gaiman's American Gods.

Holo hasn't been replaced with monotheistic religion, but scientific progress. The church is an antagonizing force toward her as well, but that's not why the village didn't need her anymore.

You caught me, I didn't read the book.

It wasn't so much a correction of your reference as a continuation of the preceding paragraph that I interrupted with the quote. Monotheism is pretty much completely ignored in American Gods anyway. Gaiman pits the old gods (Greek, Norse, Hindu, etc.) versus new "gods" (railroad, internet, television, etc.) battling for followers in America, but kind of takes the route that neither are capable of lasting very well in its society.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:06 am Reply with quote
Agent355 wrote:
I'm quite biased since I myself am eye-injured, visually impaired, legally blind, blindish--

I don't want to sound rude, but does that mean you have trouble reading subs?

Agent355 wrote:
The movie sounds like fun, the dub sounds unintentionally funny, and I really liked the B-movie "Dororo" (based on the Tezuka manga), so this sound right up my alley. I hope I get a chance to check it out someday.

I saw that Dororo film, and I meant to review it for another site but never got around to it. It was pretty amusing, but the spoiler[death] scene went on for way too long. It was definitely a higher budget affair than Ichi, though. Dororo had all those sweet CG monsters. Ichi is more like... one of those British period films they play on Masterpiece Theater. Except the villain is kinda like a manga villain.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4796
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:00 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
Ichi is more like... one of those British period films they play on Masterpiece Theater. Except the villain is kinda like a manga villain.


As simple as that description is it just sold me. Off I go to rent Ichi now. I'm a period piece freak who is probably one of the few people my age who actually tivos Masterpiece Theater. And I just happen to like blind swordsmen.
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Alestal



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 605
Location: Dallas, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:12 pm Reply with quote
After reading the article, and as a forum user, I can see why fans of Spice and Wolf would be upset by this shallow review. If someone wrote a review like this about one of your favorite shows.. Im pretty sure you'd defend it and get heated. I thought the last sentence of it's review was extremely unprofessonal, as it is a review, and I believe a good review examines a series for its overall quality without being completely biased. This review was more of a judgemental first impression. (Not trying to be offensive, but it is what it is and I'm just stating my opinion)

Also, wolves are very playful. Horo's teasing was her most wolf-like quality.. in my opinion.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Alestal wrote:
Also, wolves are very playful. Horo's teasing was her most wolf-like quality.. in my opinion.

Seems more fox-like to me.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:43 pm Reply with quote
Dorcas,

He's talking about real wolves, which are very playful with one another inside their own pack. It's when you see how they interact with one another that you really begin to realize just how smart/clever wolves are.

I admit I know a lot less about foxes, but I don't recall them being known for their playfulness.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Ah, I was thinking about it more from the literary perspective, my mistake.
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