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Fanscans affecting manga market


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isaacada1



Joined: 04 Sep 2002
Posts: 779
Location: Snohomish, WA
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:44 pm Reply with quote
Cnet.com posted an article on how anime digi-fansubs are possibly hurting the anime dvd market in North America. I'm curious if there is also possibly a similar effect of fanscans on the manga market as well.

I would love for the manga fanscan community to end so that the money and resources the people put into that profession would go into starting new manga publishers in North America.
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Haru to Ashura



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 617
Location: Termina
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:49 pm Reply with quote
I don't think it's hurting the market much. The only fan scans I've ever seen are of series that aren't liscenced in the US/Britian/etc, or weren't liscenced at the time. Most take the scans down after the comics start coming out in English.
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:49 pm Reply with quote
I'd say no. Unlike Anime, with Manga, you get a chance to "preview" the manga before you buy it. If you like it, then you buy it, if not, then put it back onto the shelf.
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Godaistudios



Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2071
Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:23 pm Reply with quote
Considering the format is entirely different - I doubt it has that much effect. I've only seen more people be positive when it comes to titles they've read some of when it comes to fanscans.

It's not like it's easy to print out the manga that's been fanscanned and put into book format - it's too costly and too much of a hassle to even begin to consider to do that. There's nothing like buying a book and flipping through the pages though. It's an entirely different form of fandom, and I know several titles I look forward to should they ever be licensed.
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Diedrupo



Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:05 pm Reply with quote
I don't believe it's hurting the market because only a small minority of the potential manga market is downloading digi-fansubs. If anything, scanslations serve as free advertising - good manga will be DLing, but great manga will be purchased after reading it.

I know that i'm going to collect Urasawa's works. :)
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Grieving Chaos



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 99
Location: Winterpark, FL
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:50 pm Reply with quote
I agree with the above post, I don't think it affects the market too badly. I remember an Tokyopop interview stating that they liscensed Fruits Baskets DUE to the heavy DLing. As for myself, I only get unliscened mangas, and if they're brought over, I'm sure as HELL going to be getting them - HxH, FMA, MAR, Midori no Hibi; I can't wait to actually have them.

Also, anime is much more expensive to produce - and thus, to buy. Manga's only ten bucks, where a single DVD is like thirty (for only three eps!) out of a whole series of DVDs. Mathmatically, I think anime would be more affected anyways.
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Annie_Jr



Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 424
Location: New Mexico (boring...)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:55 pm Reply with quote
I really don't think it's hurting the community that much. The only fanscans I have are Takeuchi's Codename wa Sailor V and Lovewitch.
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:49 pm Reply with quote
Scan being sold on ebay.
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AM



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 16
Location: All over Earth
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:51 am Reply with quote
I've seen scanlations of licenced manga as well, but those are very rare. Generally speaking fantranslations are much less hindrance for manga sales than for anime.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4780
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:11 pm Reply with quote
I don't think they're at all affecting the manga industry here. 95% of all fanscans on the internet are unlicensed series, and usually they stop scanlating when they are licensed.

Another major issue about fanscans and fansubs is quality/original product. People can easily make a dvd from digisubs, but fanscans not so much. You can try printing out the manga to read in the comfort of wherever, but that'll be a ton of paper, and really too much of a hassle. Besides, it's been proven with e-books, people prefer reading wherever they like, and with a book in their hands. Not looking at a computer screen.

Another thing, yes, there are licensed series being scanlated, but believe it or not, the fans buy the licensed versions too. I personally download Bleach scanlations, but mainly because Viz will never catch up with the Japanese version, which is around vol 20 now. I buy Viz's releases every time they release it, but I like continuing the story through the scanlations. I don't want to wait years for them to catch up to where I left off. Yeah it's sort of the same as the fansub argument, but really, if you're a fan of the series, you're going to buy the licensed versions so you can display them on your self, and read them whenever you want without the computer.

Also, pretty much all of these licensed titles are distributed through irc only. Most people have no clue how to get onto it, yet alone download through it.

I don't think for a minute scanlations will ever be a threat to the market, and it's be admitted with interviews by some people in the industry that it actually helps. Some companies even use it to help determine what's popular, and what to license next, like Tokyopop. DNAngel, Fruits Basket, and a number of their other titles were hugely popular in the scanlating community before they got licensed. And another reason I'll use to point at that mainly the manga industry has no problems with scanlators, because their hire them often.

A good example of scanlations not hurting the manga industry here: Kenshin has been completely scanlated online, yet it's one of the best selling titles around.

I know ADV has at least 2 people on their manga staff that used to be scanlators. People when applying to a manga company like ADV and Tokyopop have to submit something in their portfolio as an example of how they digitally edit manga, and scanlation work is exactly what they're looking for.

Also, as to people selling scanlations on ebay, the scanlators don't usually have anything to do with them, and really wish they wouldn't sell their scanlations. I myself am a scanlator, and when I found my scanlations on ebay, I complained to the seller, and ebay, until they were removed. Even now scanlators are trying to come up with ways to try and diminish the appeal of selling them on ebay, like for example, doing the whole "this is a free scanlation, if you paid for this, you've been screwed out of your money" on several pages on a chapter, along with a site url to the group, and so on.
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Haiseikoh 1973



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 1590
Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:52 pm Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:

Another major issue about fanscans and fansubs is quality/original product. People can easily make a dvd from digisubs, but fanscans not so much. You can try printing out the manga to read in the comfort of wherever, but that'll be a ton of paper, and really too much of a hassle. Besides, it's been proven with e-books, people prefer reading wherever they like, and with a book in their hands. Not looking at a computer screen.


It's kinda a wonder why the USA is years behind in Japan for certain technology.

For example, you can download and read books (Even manga) via such devices like Sony's LIBRIe:

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Sarki-Kun



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 594
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Well, I consider that it affects manga market. It's easy to say, "I just read online mangas that aren't licensed, and when they become so, I buy them". And that's true, I know it's something that happens.

But think it from a different point of view. Let's imagine you can choose between buying licensed manga or read online the ones that aren't licensed. Ok, you mightn't be stealing anyone's intelectual property and you mightn't be stealing the money that companies can make. But if you choose the second way, companies aren't making money out of you.

So, in some way, even if it is not so serious, the licensors aren't winning the same money as if scanlations wouldn't exist.
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Grieving Chaos



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 99
Location: Winterpark, FL
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:31 pm Reply with quote
Sarki-Kun wrote:
Well, I consider that it affects manga market. It's easy to say, "I just read online mangas that aren't licensed, and when they become so, I buy them". And that's true, I know it's something that happens.

But think it from a different point of view. Let's imagine you can choose between buying licensed manga or read online the ones that aren't licensed. Ok, you mightn't be stealing anyone's intelectual property and you mightn't be stealing the money that companies can make. But if you choose the second way, companies aren't making money out of you.

So, in some way, even if it is not so serious, the licensors aren't winning the same money as if scanlations wouldn't exist.



So if we can't read it in Japanese, we SHOULDN'T read it, and stick only to liscened stuff? :?

I get what your saying, that it DOES affect the manga market - and it does, every above post agrees. Just not as heavily as DLing hurts the anime market (the subject of the thread).
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darkhunter



Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Grieving Chaos wrote:
Sarki-Kun wrote:
Well, I consider that it affects manga market. It's easy to say, "I just read online mangas that aren't licensed, and when they become so, I buy them". And that's true, I know it's something that happens.

But think it from a different point of view. Let's imagine you can choose between buying licensed manga or read online the ones that aren't licensed. Ok, you mightn't be stealing anyone's intelectual property and you mightn't be stealing the money that companies can make. But if you choose the second way, companies aren't making money out of you.

So, in some way, even if it is not so serious, the licensors aren't winning the same money as if scanlations wouldn't exist.



So if we can't read it in Japanese, we SHOULDN'T read it, and stick only to liscened stuff? Confused

I get what your saying, that it DOES affect the manga market - and it does, every above post agrees. Just not as heavily as DLing hurts the anime market (the subject of the thread).


The Good: Might give some good manga popularity, obscure manga is available
The Bad: People already read it, lazy cheap mofos can get it for free, thus manga are not sold
The ugly: People selling complete scan on ebay, foolish people buying on ebay. Might create a bigger demand for scan.

Well lets just say I can just skip from buying Midori no Hibi because it's available onliine and in complete form. You can always say that the people who like it will buy it, but then there are people who just rather have it for free because they rather not find a job and download manga/anime online all day. Or people have already read it rather buy something new. There's always going to be different view, so there are no one right way to look at the situation.
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IvoryBirch



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 137
Location: a distant northern land
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Well, so-called scanlations can be detrimental to the market, but generally I don't think they have too much of an effect. In some cases I think it even helps the market. For instance, I have read the entire Angel Sanctuary series from scanlations, and because I loved it so much I'm ecstatic to be able to buy the books in English in well. And like many others have said, they do indeed raise awareness for many manga titles. When a series that is being scanlated is picked up by an American publisher, one will often find that the team working on said series is not upset by this news; on the contrary, the scanlators feel as if their purpose of bringing attention to their series has been fufilled, and thus stop scanlating it.

I do admit to reading series that have already been licensed (although generally I go mostly with the unlicensed ones), such as Ayashi no Ceres but only because I am simply not patient enough to put up with Viz's snailish releases. I still, however, pre-order the next volume as soon as it becomes available for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, reading from a computer screen just does not compare to curling up in a chair and reading a book the old fashioned way (plus the former gives me headaches). Also, if I can in any way support the manga-ka and manga series I love so much, I'm enthusiastic to do so. Finally, even if it's a series I don't like to much (i.e. Hana Yori Dango), I will continue to buy the books I have read scanlated. Why? Well, I just like displaying them on my bookshelves (collecting books is somewhat of a hobby for me). And I like to have the books so I can lend them to people... it would be really weird to give them a CD with the manga files on them or waste a bunch of paper printing them out.

Oh, that last comment brings me to another point. Most of my friends who read manga don't read scanlations at all, but they do borrow my books or simply sit down in Borders and read the books in the store much more often than they do actually buy them. It can be said that these methods of reading manga affect the market just as much as scanlations do... Ah, sorry, my argument is getting fairly fallacious. I'm a bad debator - mea culpa!
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