×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
REVIEW: Gundam UC Volume 01


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Krotchstak



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 94
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:33 am Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
Well review or no review,i'm still gona get UC. Also it looks better than the other Universal Century OVAs. Though my personal OVA are 8th MS team and 0083 Stardust Memory when they showed on Toonami's midnight run. Hopefully Unicorn is as good or probably better than both of them.


While I agree that UC looks very good, I don't think it looks better than 0080. That remains, in my eyes, the single best production ever to bear the Gundam name.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:09 pm Reply with quote
edzieba wrote:
It's more mass production than supply and demand. producing more = lower production cost, producing less (i.e. 70s/80s/early 90s) = higher production costs. Below a certain level, cost per disc starts to ramp up incredibly rapidly as the startup cost is spread between fewer and fewer discs.


Dude, just stop. I don't profess to be an expert but I have actually taken several courses in economics and several more in business. You're not going to convince me with a bunch of incoherent pseudo-economic chatter. No part of what you're saying here makes sense. You're asserting several trends that simply do not exist. You're basically just making shit up.

In fact, all this justifying you're doing is sort of pointless. It's no secret why the price is so high: The Japanese companies don't want otaku who normally pay outrageous Japanese prices importing a cheap North American BD for a fraction of the price. It really is as simple as that.

Quote:
"DVD prices dropped as DVD was the only way to watch anime and more and more people wanted to watch anime."The amount of people watching anime is likely still growing, but most don't want to buy DVDs.


Again, this makes no sense. As I said before, exclusivity would drive prices up. More fans (higher demand) would also drive price up. So even assuming a sudden loss of exclusivity, prices should have been rising until now and then suddenly fallen. The opposite of what's actually true.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Mr Adventure



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1598
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:31 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
More fans (higher demand) would also drive price up.


Uh... No. That's not how Supply/Demand works.

Assuming there is enough supply. As Demand rises prices should fall.

If supply is low, and demand is high, prices do rise.

If supply is low, and demand is low, prices rise.

If supply is high, and demand is low, prices fall.


In this case, I'd say supply is low. Costs of a world-wide simultaneous release of a niche genre (anime, and add Universall Century era Gundam as a franchise to double up your Nicheness) have to be pretty high so they probably have a supply only equal to expected demand based on current buying trends. Therefor, prices will be high because demand is low (anime/Gundam fans do not make up a gigantic demographic in terms of home-video sales. Sorry guys.)

So, supply/demand trends do in fact explain the current pricing of this release.

EDIT: Granted Supply/Demand economics don't really work for one single Blu-ray release, it more has to do with the industry as a whole. One high priced item is more of a symptom of the bigger picture.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Renaisance Otaku



Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 469
Location: Modesto, CA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:09 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
Okay, two things here:

Renaisance Otaku wrote:
Maybe because I've been in this since the days of 25 dollar, two episode, sub only VHS, I've never had much of a problem with the cost of anime. It's generally dirt cheap now, and one can get entire series (hopefully not overly crammed on too few discs) for the price of a few episodes decades ago. This fact has really spoiled the average fan these days.


Yeah, and I bet fans in the 70s and 80s would have been happy just to have any opportunity to see anime with subtitles. I'm sure you'd have still complained about raw releases though. But ya know, that's progress for you. Things change and the standard of what is reasonable change with em. If you're standards have not changed then by all means accept what you like. Don't try to act like everyone should still be living in the anime stone ages with you though and don't call people spoiled.

I'm not saying we should be "living in the stone age, just saying that having been from said "stone age", the rare 35 bucks for a title doesn't strike me as a deal breaker. Merely speaking my own position, not even judging others. No need to get huffy about it.

Quote:
No need to drag the thread down into how no one wants to pay any more than 5 bucks an episode nurtured by the series packs.


How can you even say that with a straight face? You just posted your own opinion on the price and then you're going to complain about how price discussion is off topic. In fact, if you actually read the thread, there are as many people insisting the price is reasonable as there are disagreeing and it was actually one of the former who sparked this whole issue again. But look, you're right. This is getting off topic and redundant and so I'm willing to let it go assuming others are willing to also and stop telling me that I should find this reasonable.


Who saidIi was saying it with a straight face? Just siding with PenguinTruth on how in 6 pages we have all of 1 worth of talking about the actual review. I wouldn't have said anything about the price except that the issue was made too big not to comment. Like I summed it up, if the price is a deal breaker, wait til it comes down as it's not an urgent title then. Not like this one release is going to change anime pricing as we know it.

Krotchstak, nice to see another appreciator of 0080. That one's always been a love it or hate it one for fans depending on whether you watch Gundam for the action or not. I doubt Unicorm will be anything like it. I expect something a bit more in line with 0083 given the review. That one was vastly flawed, yet still fun to watch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger My Anime My Manga
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:10 am Reply with quote
Renaisance Otaku wrote:
Just siding with PenguinTruth on how in 6 pages we have all of 1 worth of talking about the actual review. I wouldn't have said anything about the price except that the issue was made too big not to comment.


What you're doing is being a massive hypocrite. Don't complain about how everyone 'dragging the thread down' by talking about price if you're also going to dive right into that discussion.


Mr Adventure:

Uh...okay. I think perhaps we're analyzing this in two different ways. What I am saying is that in the general market for anime, if the number of fans increases then the number of people willing to buy at any given price will have increased. Thus the demand curve shifts to the right. The new equilibrium will be at a higher price and at a greater quantity.

As I said though, it's pretty clear that this is not an economic shift in the market. It's simply them appeasing the fears of the Japanese about reverse importation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:14 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
if the number of fans increases then the number of people willing to buy at any given price will have increased. Thus the demand curve shifts to the right. The new equilibrium will be at a higher price and at a greater quantity.
No, a greater demand only increases prices if the supply is lower. For media distribution, supply is almost entirely an artificial variable. i.e. beyond a minimum order that makes back the startup cost of pressing, the actual per-disc cost is small enough that supply can scale directly to demand. For the past few years, the demand has been above this start-up level. Now, demand is dropping below (and may well have dropped below, we have little knowledge if companies have been absorbing losses on one show with profits from another) the critical startup threshold, so prices must rise or profits will drop or disappear.

It's a nonintuitive nonlinearity, but it's an important one. It's also the reason the Japanese distributor's prices are so high: The marker there has almost always been below the threshold of startup costs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
luffypirate



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 3186
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:33 am Reply with quote
Man, I still can't understand why some of you people think this is overpriced. This is literally a godsend for UC Gundam fans and anime BD collectors everywhere. When they listed the price on CD Japan I though it was some sort of joke. I was expecting it to be at least $80.

Last edited by luffypirate on Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:40 am Reply with quote
edzieba wrote:
No, a greater demand only increases prices if the supply is lower.


I have to nitpick here. If the demand curve gets shifted to the right (i.e. demand increases) then that makes the price go up, irrespective of the supply. That's because the relationship between supply and demand has changed, even though supply has remained the same.

----------

As to the point that ikillchicken was making, that exclusivity creates/increases demand, well you'll all be happy to know that the phenomenon does indeed exist. It even has a name; Veblen Good. Basically, a high price on a prestigious item confers a sort of prestige associated with owning such an item, and therefore demand goes up. Read the Wikipedia article for more depth.



And for god's sakes people, don't argue points of Economics with people who actually have knowledge of said Economics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:35 am Reply with quote
edzieba wrote:
so prices must rise or profits will drop or disappear.


Obviously that is wrong. Think about it. If increasing profit were as simple as increasing price, companies would do it regardless now wouldn't they?

Total profit = profit per sale x number of sales.

Increasing price will increase the former. However, it will decrease the latter. The higher the price, the less people will be willing to buy something. This is the concept of the demand curve in it's purest, most basic form. Thus, the change in profit depends entirely on the slope of the demand curve. It may increase or decrease depending on which factor changes more. Again, I don't want to be Mr 'I'm an expert' because I'm not. However, this is extremely basic, introductory level stuff. If you do not understand the basic concept of how a demand curve works, you simply DO NOT know what you are talking about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
edzieba



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 704
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:19 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
I have to nitpick here. If the demand curve gets shifted to the right (i.e. demand increases) then that makes the price go up, irrespective of the supply. That's because the relationship between supply and demand has changed, even though supply has remained the same.
OK, bad phrasing on my part: A greater demand will only increase the price if the supply cannot scale with the demand. Since media distribution only requires running off extra copies, supply increase is always possible, and will only lower production costs. Any scarcity below demand is artificial (e.g. Disney's limited release cycles).
ikillchicken wrote:
The higher the price, the less people will be willing to buy something. This is the concept of the demand curve in it's purest, most basic form. Thus, the change in profit depends entirely on the slope of the demand curve. It may increase or decrease depending on which factor changes more.
This assumes the potential market for the good is variable and expandable if the price were to drop. As we've seen, this is not the case for anime: many simply do not want physical media. If prices were to drop to break-even for disc-pressing alone (ignoring any licensing fees), the increase is sales would not be particularly impressive. Those who want DVDs/BDs are already buying them. The only low price point that could possibly entice those who current stream exclusively (what would be the 'watched it on TV for free' public when regarding domestic TV) would be below the cost of pressing the discs and getting them to them.
The demand curve is a nice rule-of-thumb. It fails for edge cases though, and licensed anime DVD releasing is definitely an edge case. For our purposes, the both the supply and demand curve have nonlinearities: the demand curve plateaus rapidly above the current demand level, and the price curve rises rapidly below it's current point. For shows like Naruto, the demand plateau is waaay up there, leaving plenty of room for the optimum price to vary about. For Unicorn, a show catering to diehard UC fans, the demand plateau is low, encroaching on the price spike.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vicserr



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 480
Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico USA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:45 am Reply with quote
LuckyAstei wrote:
Vicserr wrote:
vashfanatic wrote:

This isn't one for newcomers, but what would be a good Gundam series for newcomers? It's been my everlasting shame that, as an anime, I've yet to watch a single Gundam series.


Setup for Gundam Unicorn would be Mobile Suit Gundam (Available Free at Crunchyroll until April or rent the 3 mobile Suit Gundam movies if you don't want to watch the entire series), Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam (Available Free right here at ANN until April) and Nu Gundam: Char's CounterAttack (you could probably Nexflix it), The 08th MS Team is a series that a lot of people that don't "get" Gundam enjoy and it would at least give you a cliffnotes version of the conflict of the original series, Gundam 0083 would give set up to the rise of the antagonists of Zeta Gundam, bur that series is definitely Mecha Porn.


you missed a series ZZ Gundam, techinally to get the full expereience you need to watch these series, Mobile Suit Gundam, Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, Moible Suit Gundam Double Zeta and Mobile Suit Gundam Char's Counterattack, reason I say Double Zeta in there a Puru is in the enemy roster and I won't do the biggest reveal that's a throwback to ZZ.


I was aiming for stuff available in R1, the person that asked didn't want a complicated solution, heck I haven't watch ZZ, and with the suggestions I made, he should have most of the bases covered.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number My Anime
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:00 am Reply with quote
edzieba wrote:
This assumes the potential market for the good is variable and expandable if the price were to drop.


Uh no. We are talking about an increase in price. So rather, it is you who is assuming that the market would not shrink significantly as a result of a raise in price. The outrage over this one price increase alone demonstrates that this is a foolish assumption. As does the failure of Bandai Visual in the past. Your argument would support the idea that dropping prices further would be unwise but not the opposite. (Although really, the success of funimation and resurgence of ADV since the move to more affordable non-singles releases would also demonstrate that your conclusion is false).

I'll again point out that all this justifying seems absurd. This release is obviously a single exception rather than an emerging trend. This is obviously about nothing more than appeasing the Japanese reverse importation fears.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Kaioshin_Sama



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 1215
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:17 am Reply with quote
Renaisance Otaku wrote:


Krotchstak, nice to see another appreciator of 0080. That one's always been a love it or hate it one for fans depending on whether you watch Gundam for the action or not. I doubt Unicorm will be anything like it. I expect something a bit more in line with 0083 given the review. That one was vastly flawed, yet still fun to watch.


And if that does end up being the case I can bet I know which aspect people will choose to focus the discussion on. "De flaws, de flaws....sure you're having a ton of fun watching this show with all of it's great scenes, but now you must listen to me talk about de flaws until it's no longer fun".

At least if it's anything like the past 5 or so animated entries in the franchise you can bet that's how it's going to go down, because goddamnit everybody has their pet favourite Gundam series and unless the newest one is exactly like it then there'll be hell to pay. I can already hear the Gundamn! podcast prepping the straight talk express for this one. Laughing

Anyway it is amazing yet not altogether surprising that there's been about 5 pages of nothing but whining about the Blu-Ray price. Considering that there are a number of people in here who seem to have shown up solely to bitch about the price and admit that they don't even care about Gundam at all or even plan to give the franchise a chance (oh it's just stupid shiny visuals etc.) I think it speaks volumes about the maturity of the posters.

The "if you don't like it, don't buy it speech" shouldn't even have to come up and I urge that nobody attempt to even give it. Let these people just cry it out and then hopefully be done with it and we can talk about the review that nobody bothered to read instead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:46 am Reply with quote
Kaioshin_Sama wrote:
The "if you don't like it, don't buy it speech" shouldn't even have to come up and I urge that nobody attempt to even give it. Let these people just cry it out and then hopefully be done with it and we can talk about the review that nobody bothered to read instead.


Dude.

You are completely missing the point. The people who are complaining about the price are complaining about the actual price, NOT whether they like Gundam or not. Because of course we like Gundam, or at least are interested in it. Our main issue - yes, I am included in this group - is not that we don't like it, but that we don't like it enough to pay such a price.

And I for one did read the review.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
kefkaownsall



Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:12 pm Reply with quote
I think the price will come down on Amazon in two months.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 6 of 7

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group