Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2010-02-26]
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Back on the twins I just recalled Yuu Watase's Ayashi no Ceres features a pair of twins as the main characters, and they don't at all fit the stereotype, and are rather different from each other. She had another pair of twins in Fushigi Yuugi, but spoiler[one died before you saw it really interact with the other so it's hard to determine if they had much in different personalities, especially since one was undercover and the other just straight out wanted revenge for his twin's death.]
King of Thorn also features a pair of twins with two different personalities. Angel Sanctuary did too, Angelic twins Rosiel and Alexiel. Nothing alike. |
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Kagami8
 Posts: 19 Location: Oklahoma |
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Yes, but in Ceres and Angel Sanctuary, they are fraternal, which I believe was one of the disqualifications of the question. I personally tend to see two tropes that are commonly used in identicals: one character or polar opposites - and polar opposites can be seen as another problem with the lazy characterization of twins. How many times have you seen a set that doesn't embody one or the other stereotype? I'd like to see more stuff like in Papillon, where they go into some of the psychological problems that go with being a twin. A couple of my cousins are identical twins, and they tell me that once you hit that awkward stage of puberty when you're looking for identity, it is twice as hard because people don't expect you to have one - that, or you work hard to become the opposite so as to avoid such a stereotype, falling into yet another. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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All this talk about twins in anime, and no mention of Futakoi, a harem show featuring no fewer than six sets of identical twins? Four of those sets were indistinguishable outside of clothing colors and hair accessories, including the pair involved in the attempts at drama in the last few episodes. The lead's "I'll be your bride when you grow up" childhood friend pair were somewhat differentiated, and then there was a standard "quiet/sickly + outspoken/angry" pair. How I managed to sit through the show (twice!), I'll never know.
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Kalessin
 Posts: 931 |
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With regards to twins, my inclination would be that, from the perspective of a story, there's not much point to them if they're not either totally similar, or you're making a point about how dissimilar they are in spite of being twins. They have to bring something to the story that normal siblings don't. Non-twins are already dissimilar. If you want two siblings, there you go. Twins bring you a similarity - frequently extreme similarity - which normal siblings can't. Or, the reader or viewer expects them to, so you play around with the fact that they don't - rather than fulfill the reader's/viewer's expectations, they specifically subvert them.
I've known identical twins. They're not truly identical. They're definitely different people, and I can see real life twins being annoyed by the portrayal of twins in anime. However, when you put something in a story, it has to add something to it. In the case of twins, they generally need to add something that normal sibling would not (otherwise why not just have them be normal siblings?). In most cases, that is their similarities. So, yah, they get the short end of the stick, but it wouldn't general make sense for a writer to give them the long end. It just wouldn't help the story any. Best case, the writer just so happens to make a couple of siblings twins for the heck of it. But doing so isn't likely going to add much to the story, so they generally won't. Oh, and a particularly interesting take on twins would be Ouran High School Host Club. They make a big deal of the fact that they're so similar and how that affects them. But while the two of them are definitely different in subtle ways, it's insanely hard to tell them apart (I don't even try and was surprised to find out that it's even possible). It's a big plot point when someone actually is able to tell between them. |
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ljaesch
Posts: 299 Location: Enumclaw, WA |
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There was a set of identical twins in my graduating class in high school. Even though they were identical, there was still a subtle difference in the look of their faces (it's someting I can never put into words, but I noticed that difference over time and was able to identify which one was which). Most people in our class, though, either never took the time to figure out that difference, or just didn't see it.
I think I have to agree with the assessment that in manga and anime, twins tend to be depicted as a unit, more often than not. However, it's not like American animation hasn't done this also. Just take a look at Rugrats for a moment. While Phil and Lil are fraternal, they were still treated like a unit, with very similiar personalities (in one episode, they even lamented about how their parents had trouble telling them apart). Like it was said elsewhere, it's probably easier for the creators, writers, etc. to portray twins as a unit, then to try to come up with two different characters (unless the writer is going for the twins as polr opposites angle). |
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FMAvatard
 Posts: 195 |
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I can totally relate with the people in Answerfans. I'm open with my friends when it comes to anime (we're all otakus, so no duh) and I read manga at school. The fact that I live in a town that's so small it's ridiculous means we all get looks from the "Normal" people...
My family's kinda neutral. My dad could care less, but my mom can't stand it. She thinks I'm some kind of freak who wants to stand out and be a freak. She can't stand the keychains I have on my purse, or my wallscrolls, or my posters or manga or DVDs. She thought I was watching Death Note because I was suicidal, and she just jumps to conclusions and doesn't try to understand. But I don't care. It's my interest. |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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LOLWUT  Wow, ignorance knows no bounds...
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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As someone who only has a few friends who are also anime fans, I'm not SUPER open about it. I wouldn't say that I *hide* it, but it doesn't come up a lot, you know. I'm a law student and work part time at a law firm, so ... yeah. I have known of some law students who are at least sort of into anime, though
I guess it's just like any other hobby or interest - if you're really really into something and someone else isn't, then why would you torture them by talking about it nonstop to them. That's seriously crazy. I will never understand why many anime fans do this - that's part of why people think we are weirdo losers, guys. 
I own a ton of anime, manga, some artbooks, and about 60 anime figures - so my studio apartment basically looks someone threw up anime all over. I don't have a lot of folks over, but I feel kind of weird about my figures when it comes to non-otaku friends :/ ... I actually hid my more pervy swimsuit figures when one of my good friends stopped by because I wasn't sure how she'd take it! I did have a lot of stuff out, though, and she just said "Aww, look at all your cute anime stuff!' ... *phew* acceptance! Some of my friends know I cosplay at cons and they think it's weird, but cool - if that makes sense. I post some otaku-y things on facebook, but people who don't get it probably don't care or take any notice. I'm way more open on livejournal/twitter, but I am mostly friends w/ other fans on those sites. OH, EDIT - my mom is accepting of my love of anime ... I do hide some of my purchasing from her, just because she would probably want to lecture about how I'm wasting all my money or something  ... but it really just comes down to $$ w/ her. She doesn't care what I'm watching / into.
I'm actually using anime music (instrumental) in my wedding (in 3 weeks ahhh!) Most people won't notice, but for the folks who do or are interested, then woot!
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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So if it's well known, it is by definition not "art house"? Therefore, anything that's obscure IS "art house"? I don't think this is a useful definition. I think, in terms of anime anyway, the first question is: does the anime in question pitch itself at the mainstream in terms of genre and execution, or not? The second question is: does that have anything to do with whether we call the resulting product "artistic"? The movie Akira, for instance, might now be regarded by anime fans as "mainstream", but when it first came out it was only shown in "art house" cinemas in the West, and, whether East or West, what that movie was doing was (and is) very individual and confrontational in execution and subject matter. But will you count Akira out because "everyone knows about it"? I think the first thing we have to do when talking about "art house" anime is eliminate commercial considerations from the discussion, and discuss the works themselves purely in terms of artistic integrity. |
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Tamaria
 Posts: 1512 Location: De Achterhoek |
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I don't get that. Anime clubs are a great opportunity to watch stuff you wouldn't normally watch. Maybe people are affraid they'll have a different opinion on it than their friends? They don't know what they'll think about it, so they'll just stick to the things they know everyone likes. It's a way to make sure you fit in. I personally think it's a lot of fun to discover new manga and anime, especially when it's free. There are some types of series I know I won't watch/read (lolicon, shotacon, series that are extremely sexual or violent just because they can), but other than that I'm open to pretty much anything. I don't care for BL, but if a friend gave me a BL manga and told me to read it because the story is so good, I'd probably give it a chance. I don't mind paying for unknowns either. I love bargain bins at conventions, because you can blindly buy stuff for next to nothing and be pleasantly surprised. |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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I think the question/answer about streaming missed the point. Streaming is its own market that's mostly separate from DVDs. People hot for DVDs before will likely continue to buy them. It always was niche. Streaming gets the casual viewer, and those who may have watched fansubs before but wanted a legal alternative, and those who don't care to own DVDs, and a lot of people will pay for the privilege.
People seem to forget that Crunchyroll sells memberships, and we members are paying for our anime that way. I rarely want to own a DVD of anything, because I don't usually want to watch a series a second time and I don't like taking up space with the stuff. Right now I have to use an entire room in our house for what I own, and I'd rather not. That's why I'm moving what I can of my book library to ebooks, buy online manga from Netcomics and emanga.com when I can, and have a Crunchyroll membership. You're right, streaming shouldn't *just* be for free. A tiered approach with paying, advertising, etc should offer different benefits that encourage people to buy. But really, the best thing is not to think of streaming as a way to get people to buy DVDs, because they're just two different markets as far as I'm concerned and need to be approached that way: as a new opportunity to gain a different sort of customer. |
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ArthurFrDent
 Posts: 466 |
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heh, that sharing question is SO loaded if you are a middle aged guy... so I don't talk about stuff in terms of the medium, but rather in terms of storytelling... If I happen to mention it's animated later? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ My closer friends know that I watch anime over live action these days, but that doesn't mean that we can't discuss the story and sometimes the syle.
My kids will pretty much watch whatever I let them, but you can tell pretty quick if they lose interest. On a number of shows, I have to cut eps that have too much fan service, but I may still want to show the story... They's 10 and 15, so they accept what the old man likes in stories, especially because I do occasionally point something out about the story that helps them understand it better. Sometimes I warn the younger that something bad is about to happen, to lessen the blow. I also often discuss the artistry of what they are seeing with them. Sure I don't look at anime as some kind of superior snooty art form... but the people who draw a line just so, who shade a movement just so, who write music that somehow says just the right thing. This is artistry, the same way that the way a Seiyuu interprets a line in a way that is funny or makes you choke up is artistry. Talking about that with kids or other people surely betrays my passion for anime and manga certainly, but no more than I have the same feelings for live action, or a fine art print. That said, I don't have figures on my desk [though maybe a VF-25 Valkyrie someday] no keychains, and the like, I don't find much amusement in that and the questions are too much... But the screen on my phone is the red MM robot from FLCL, and occasionally somebody recognizes it... |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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guys, guys! you're getting too bogged down in the specifics here.
i'm not asking about what you think is "art" or "art house" or even if you think things that are considered "art house" are good, i just wanna know, on average, how often you all are to sit down and watch something that could be considered "unconventional" in the sense that it's not really part of a specific, predictable genre. "Trapeze" and "Mind Game" are perfect examples; whether you think they're GOOD or not is irrelevant, i just wanna know how open everyone is to watching something that's a little off the beaten path of the usual shonen fight-fest or boob-groping moe romp. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Aw hell, now I've got to nitpick. I'm a bit unclear. I wouldn't doubt that the line lies somewhere between those two but there's a whole lot in between there. So let me ask: On a scale of... Gundam - lots of genre tropes and cliches Macross Plus - certainly unique but still somewhat 'genre' material Ghost in the Shell SAC - classifiable but in no way conventional Time of Eve - really quite unique. very little like it out there. Robot Carnival - if this doesn't do it what does? At what point there would you say we're off the beaten path? |
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bemused Bohemian
Posts: 404 Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville) |
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I have fun with it: being an anime nut. There may not be that many enthusiasts in my age cohort; then again, I might be surprised. PS..I am as old as dirt. I purposely mention ani-cons to my self-employed business associates and try to "interest" them into attending 1 or 2 annually. When NaKa-Con hit Kansas City recently I kept nagging 1 or 2 of them to set up tables and sell there rather than the usual train shows. I figured the exposure to a different geeky obsessive compulsive group of otaku might help them develop a little market share. LOL. My friends have been on the planet long enough to tolerate just about anything or anyone that is not a total A.W. It's fun to watch their reactions re my anime musings. At worst they say I'm "interesting". I have yet to be ostracized for this hobby.
My 1 flaw is that I will buy dvds that are likely Chinese bootlegs from overseas once in a while. Remember: I am as OLD as dirt. There is some anime I want to leisurely view in my lifetime which may not be as long a timeline as yours or Funimation's et al release schedule for anime genre I crave. My wife tolerates 1 bedroom closet full of anime dvds plus a decent replica of Godzilla in the computer room but dreads the visits to our door by the brown truck or USPS Priority packages from either Amazon or Iowa. And I firmly believe she secretly worries I will croak before she does. Hell, she'll have 1 of the best darn N- and HO-scale model railroad plus 1/64 diecast semi-truck collections in the county....I really don't fathom why she would be concerned; she should be real darn proud she married an honest to gosh collector that has something to show for his time on the road of life's highway...if you get my drift. Truckstop food IS good food! |
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