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NEWS: Incarnate's Simmons Addresses Alleged Bleach Copying


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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1213
Location: City 7, Macross 7
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:43 pm Reply with quote
When I was a kid, I traced a "Tiny Toons" picture from a trace book to some paper. I showed it to my dad and said, "Look what I drew!", to which my dad replied, "You didn't DRAW it, you TRACED it." Later on in my childhood, I copied a picture without tracing and showed it to my dad, to which he said,
"That's good, but what if you tried to come up with something original?".

Simmons has obviously never been told this before.

No matter how "original" his plot is, the fact remains that he blatantly copied Tite Kubo's artwork and
tailored it to his own story/characters.
Both as an artist and huge fan of "Bleach", this is downright infuriating to me. Mr. Simmons
has lost some major cred with me, and I think I speak for fellow artists when I say COME UP WITH YOUR OWN DRAWINGS!!!
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monkeyshinobi



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 114
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:47 pm Reply with quote
"Homage" O_O I think he was inspired too much!!

I mean i understand inspiration from other works but a lot of his panels in the comic are just a little too similar that if you were to place each picture over each other, the lines would almost line up! Tracing~
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6712
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:51 pm Reply with quote
mrsatan wrote:
jgreen wrote:
Whoa, I can't believe I hadn't heard about this earlier, but apparently before it was Incarnate, the book was called Skullduggery. A preview issue was published back in 2007 and the art is both (A) much less manga-styled, and (B) much, much crappier.

http://forum.superpouvoir.com/showthread.php?t=6315


Shocked

Isn't that Hiei from Yu Yu Hakusho in the first image?

I don't think so. Sure he has several eyes, but that's about the extent of the similarities I see. I do, however, get major Alucard vibes.
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Dark Elf Warrior



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 228
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:53 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Whoa, I can't believe I hadn't heard about this earlier, but apparently before it was Incarnate, the book was called Skullduggery. A preview issue was published back in 2007 and the art is both (A) much less manga-styled, and (B) much, much crappier.

http://forum.superpouvoir.com/showthread.php?t=6315


I saw the link. The long-haired character looks like a deranged and insane Frodo Baggins.

Quote:
mrgetalife wrote:
In the music world its called "sampling" *shrug* so I dunno, maybe he thought it would eventually become accepted.


I think you don't quite understand what sampling is about though, even in music when you just copy huge chunks and change almost nothing it is not considered sampling anymore but just blatant copying


You've got that right.
Copying is copying no matter how you justify it. I'm surprised Nick Simmons is a comic creator, but I'm shocked that he copied from Bleach and other manga. That is just wrong. I don't care what anyone says, it was wrong.

Quote:
mrgetalife wrote:
In the music world its called "sampling" *shrug* so I dunno, maybe he thought it would eventually become accepted.

I was under the impression that when a musician "samples" a piece of music, they need permission from the original creator.


Yes, if a musician samples a piece of music, they need permission from the orignal writer/composer.


Last edited by Dark Elf Warrior on Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:00 pm Reply with quote
mrgetalife wrote:
In the music world its called "sampling" *shrug* so I dunno, maybe he thought it would eventually become accepted.

I was under the impression that when a musician "samples" a piece of music, they need permission from the original creator.
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mglittlerobin



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 1071
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:31 pm Reply with quote
One or two panels is a homage, he used the exact same character designs and PAGES of Tite Kubo's Bleach, he's just trying to save face because Radical canceled his book printing.
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daggerbob



Joined: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 52
Location: Colorado, US
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:49 pm Reply with quote
For all it is worth, they should just blacklist him from the industry like they do to manga-ka in Japan that "homage" other artists.
Didn't they do that to one manga-ka last year, or so, that plagiarized "Slam Dunk"?
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:06 pm Reply with quote
So if I pay homage to Kiss by doing a recording of some of their songs and give no credit to them at all and say that I created “God Gave Rock & Roll to Me” myself, Nick’s dad won’t mind? I mean it’s just a homage. Oh and I never bought the Kiss album, just downloaded it on a torrent and then sampled it into my own version of the song.

Also if you download my stuff and steal my songs I expect you to pay. In cash. Spank you very much.
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ljaesch



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 299
Location: Enumclaw, WA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:26 pm Reply with quote
My husband and I were both rolling our eyes when we read this statement. Unfortunately, I think Nick Simmons did more damage to himself and his career than he did to help the situation.

Out of curiousity, I did check out that link of Skullduggery. I swear, some of the characters made me think of the character designs for Gorillaz's music videos.
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Hellfish



Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 391
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:55 pm Reply with quote
jgreen wrote:
Whoa, I can't believe I hadn't heard about this earlier, but apparently before it was Incarnate, the book was called Skullduggery. A preview issue was published back in 2007 and the art is both (A) much less manga-styled, and (B) much, much crappier.

http://forum.superpouvoir.com/showthread.php?t=6315

.[/quote]

Looks like if Hellsing and Gorrilaz had a child... less obviosly traced but still... he didn't seem to have a clear idea of what he wanted to from the beggining.
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cool_inuyasha_girl



Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:58 pm Reply with quote
I hope Nick Simmons reads these comments, he needs to find a dictionary and learn what "homage" and "plagiarism" mean. According to the oxford dictionary Homage means "something done or given in acknowledgment or consideration of the worth of another" or "respect or reverence paid or rendered". Plagiarism is defined as "the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original work. " Hmmm, which dictionary definition sounds more appropriate for art that was almost directly copied/traced? Nick Simmons is in college, I'm sure he has a dictionary nearby so the next time he makes some ridiculous excuse he will be able to use the big boy words properly.

Last edited by cool_inuyasha_girl on Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6199
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:02 am Reply with quote
wilson_x1999 wrote:
If he doesn't get sued or at least get this series canceled, then I'm gonna start a new comic by scanning/copying/pasting frames from some mangas that I love and I'll call it a homage.


and you'll get away with it. possibly even make some money.

you guys don't seem to understand just how common this is. there are many comic artists that have created very lucrative careers from doing this (Rob Liefeld, Greg Land, Bob Kane...). Mangas are even more notorious. it's no secret that the industry was built off of tracing Tezuka and Otomo's works.
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Ashen Phoenix



Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 2904
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:05 am Reply with quote
DerekTheRed wrote:
Sounds like the usual "I'm very, very sorry (that I got caught)." response.


Unfortunately, I feel inclined to agree.

I've no firsthand knowledge of Simmons' caliber as a person, but my impression from this response is hardly favorable to him. Confused
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:14 am Reply with quote
cool_inuyasha_girl wrote:
I hope Nick Simmons reads these comments, he needs to find a dictionary and learn what "homage" and "plagiarism" mean. According to the oxford dictionary Homage means "something done or given in acknowledgment or consideration of the worth of another" or "respect or reverence paid or rendered". Note how both definitions require the object that the homage is being produced for TO ACTUALLY BE MENTIONED.


No. Obviously, just copying exactly is not an homage. However, an homage does not require you to actually mention the thing you are referencing. That would be absurdly unsubtle and totally inappropriate in the context of a narrative. I'm not actually sure how you would get that from either of those definitions.
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haldenlith



Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:16 am Reply with quote
John Casey wrote:
(I've always wanted to use this....!)

I'm sorry Simmons...But tracing is not a form of "homage."



I just wanted to say that is awesome use of that.
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