Forum - View topicHandley's Attorney Comments on Obscene Manga Case
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
bankai3232
Posts: 20 |
|
|||||
|
::deletes Fate Stay Night Story Images from Computer:: Really cool response from a guy who knows WTH he's talkin bout,
|
||||||
|
||||||
J. Kudo
 Posts: 65 |
|
|||||
I'm gonna have to think twice about the next time I buy a doujinshi at a con. You never know.... I might become a victim of a sting operation. 
|
||||||
|
||||||
teh*darkness
 Posts: 901 |
|
|||||
In Oregon, getting any kind of government issued cert, whether voter registration, ID card or driver's license, will get you added into that county's juror registration pool as well. I've been called in twice in the last 8 years, but my number has never been called, so I just have to sit there the entire day, playing my PSP or listening to music. Luckily, my job pays me for jury duty. Also, like Bohemian, after we've been called in once to be in the jury pool, you can't be called in again for 2 years. And the reason I don't vote is because I'm a slightly right-leaning independent in a state of bald-faced liberals... my vote wouldn't do anything anyway. It'd just get swallowed up when the Dems have more votes, and the entire state electorate suddenly backs one candidate. Yeah, sure, I'm being represented... |
||||||
|
||||||
fuuma_monou
 Posts: 1817 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
|
|||||
If you don't vote, you forfeit the right to bitch about the people who do, whatever their political affiliation. "Liberal" is not a dirty word, or would you like living in a virtual police state a la Bush II? |
||||||
|
||||||
Labbes
 Posts: 890 |
|
|||||
|
I wonder whether such a case would have a much different outcome in Germany, seeing how we don't (always) have a jury, and probably quite different laws.
I'd wager people here dislike images of naked children (drawn or not) as much as people in the US, but it would be interesting to see how much exactly the legislation process differs in an "obscenity" case. Too bad I don't know any experienced lawyers who specialise in such things 
|
||||||
|
||||||
Ashen Phoenix
 Posts: 2910 |
|
|||||
True. It might not make us any happier, but as they say, 'knowledge is power', so I shall take this information at least as some comfort in this travesty.
Fuuma, I couldn't agree with you more. My standing on the matter is this: If you don't stand up and contribute to some degree, you are therefore a voiceless "unseen" person in whatever event you describe in which voting is needed. All you "contribute" then is meaningless and weightless complaints, which will change nothing. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
captainbanana
Posts: 191 |
|
|||||
|
It's a good thing for Handley that his case didn't go to trial. The most important part of his attorneys comments is the part about "even normally liberal bloggers not being for handley". I'm pretty darn liberal, and even I don't want that material being available to anyone. If even anime fans are fairly split on the issue, the poor guy didn't have a chance in a trial.
I think obscenity laws are a joke as they are written, but that doesn't change the fact that I find the items he purchased disgusting, and that I'd have to find that they were obscene if the decision was mine. Obscenity laws need to clearly spell out what is and isn't obscene, or this type of thing is just going to keep happening. I hope some kind soul will give this guy a job in six months time :/ |
||||||
|
||||||
Satsujinki
 Posts: 33 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana |
|
|||||
Intergenerational sexual relations were criminalized various times throughout the course of human history, so someone somewhere disliking the very concept irrespective of fiction is a given. There is however a stark contrast in the way the US generally views sexuality and the way the rest of the world does; chalk it up to religious dogma and lack of education (seriously, words cannot properly express how I feel in regards to what passes for literacy in the states). As a result, the US is thought of as boorish and prudish and we think of the rest of the world as depraved sissies. We are often cited for our John Wayne sense of diplomacy and casual propagation of violence yet we're a laughing stock with the way the next soccer mom reacts to Miley Cyrus' Teen Choice performance last year (because 16 year olds are supposed to be sweet and innocent (?) 5 year olds from the 1940s, right?). Anyway, I've slightly digressed merely to put things into better perspective, so let me conclude: this is the status quo until all of the conservapes (or Light Yagami's of the world) drop their pretension and realize that this is just setting a precedent for thought policing. P.S. to captainbanana: obscenity is relative, so it's a flawed pretense with which to judge what's acceptable and what isn't - which was the entire point his lawyer made. I don't see a drawing as any more of a crime than a Hollywood motion picture, because the smart person knows that no one is getting killed in real life by either. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
falstaff107
Posts: 19 |
|
|||||
|
I still don't really understand what's illegal and what's not. For example, To Love-Ru is legally distributed in the US by an American distributor (Sentai/Section 23), yet there are images of teenage breasts in it as well as non-explicit (yet still potentially "prurient") spoofs of tentacle porn. Some of the content could be viewed as "sexual in nature" even though it doesn't seem to have real pornographic intent. I believe strongly that it has artistic merit (in my opinion it's funny, cute, good-natured, spoofs anime motifs in a fun way, has great character designs, etc). But isn't its merit subjective? If someone sees it in your collection, thinks it's obscene, and calls the cops, are you suddenly going to court? It seems as if the fact that it's distributed legally by Section 23 doesn't mean a jury can't decide it's obscene if they feel like it.
And then there's the fact that if you want to defend its artistic merit in court and you lose, that's a 5-year minimum sentence. |
||||||
|
||||||
The Xenos
 Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
|
|||||
Meanwhile, I hate to think this Max guy needs defending. He should not be arrested for this, especially since it was a case in FL and he worked in CA, but I've heard there's some question on some of the consent in some scenes. Though I guess the actresses signed enough paperwork that the bastard might have covered his ass. So I don't know if anyone can go after him. Yet as much of a scumbag as that guy is, I don't think he should be in jail for this charge. Again, the whole idea that someone can be arrest in CA because a community and jury in FL finds his website offensive is an insane legal ruling. Some judge down there thinks they can do witch hunts long distance now? It has to be a pretty horrible ruling to make me side with a piece of trash like Max Hardcore.
These images have nothing to do with actual child pornography where real children in real photographs are hurt by real criminals. Instead of wasting time on this, the legal system should focus its laws and its prosecution on real crime. To me this is the equivalent of charging someone for a violent Japanese comic or violent video some trumped up crime of owning a 'virtual snuff film'. That we arrest someone for owning a work of fiction still blows my mind. |
||||||
|
||||||
Vicserr
 Posts: 480 Location: Carolina, Puerto Rico USA |
|
|||||
I think his only other good thing that he got was that he didn't get added to the state sex offenders list, not that his life has been completely FUBARed by this, He's been used as an example, even if by the guilty plea is not setting legal precedent. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
falstaff107
Posts: 19 |
|
|||||
|
The fact that you can go to jail based on the standard of whether a jury thinks something you possess would be "considered obscene by an average member of the community" - which is the standard the jury was instructed to apply in the Max Hardcore case - is in itself crazy. It constitutes the criminalization of the eccentricity of a work of pornography regardless of whether or not its production was victimless. That is scary.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Hardgear
|
|
|||||
I was thinking the same thing. That wouldn't do anything however, because I am willing to bet most juries would rule that those have "serious artistic value". Aint double standards great?
THANK YOU!! I am so glad someone realizes this. A pure democracy is nothing more than mob rule, definitely not a place I would want to live. And about jury duty and everyone wanting to get it done and go home: If I was ever in a case like this and the other jurors were pissed that I was keeping them there instead of agreeing to send someone to jail and ruin his life over a manga, I would simply respond with "well if y'all want to go home that bad, just declare him innocent and we can all leave!" 
But in all seriousness, that is a big flaw with the whole jury system. If you are on trial, don't it make y'all feel good that everyone is just gonna spend a MAXIMUM of 1-2 hours debating on a decision that can very well ruin your life? On top of that, when they say "jury of your peers" they apparently mean random people off the street, a peer is apparently any other person. Well, in a case like Handley's can you consider anyone other than a fellow anime/manga fan a true "peer"? What you would have had in his case had he gone to trial is a group of 12 random people who likely think all anime/manga is violent tentacle porn, or at best don't know anything about it. Not exactly the kind of people qualified to make decisions on the subject IMO. |
||||||
Takeyo
 Posts: 736 |
|
|||||
Similarly, I've been wondering if Handley could have waived his right to a jury and gone with a bench trial. Personally, for a case like this I'd rather take my chances with a judge than a group of 12 people, "too stupid to get out of jury duty." On the other hand, I suppose one could outsmart himself if he draws a judge who is up for re-election or has a conflicting political agenda. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
The Xenos
Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
|
|||||
Plus anything can be turned dirty by the right mind. In the words of the immortal Tom Leher:
|
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group