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Handley's Attorney Comments on Obscene Manga Case


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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:02 pm Reply with quote
yblees wrote:
bankai3232 wrote:
::deletes Fate Stay Night Story Images from Computer:: Really cool response from a guy who knows WTH he's talkin bout,

Deleted the yaoi guro stuff off my computer a short while ago.
Definitely agree this has to be the most informative article about the legal aspects of the Handley case.
That law about "5 year mandatory minimum sentence " for receiving "obscenity" is just .... perverse. Mad


I think deleting stuff from your computer or destroying things you already have in your possession is a bit of an overreaction. Though if I was living in one of those states that had once had sodomy laws on the books (up until 2003, that is), I would be a bit worried about the Tactics doujinshi I have in my possession, seeing as how this obscenity "law" is so subjective to interpretation.. - I probably will be slightly more cautious about what I "receive" going forward.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:10 pm Reply with quote
It was informative. Though, the heart and motive of the article is to defend Mr. Chase's defense strategy (which many of us disagreed with). Although very convincing, I am sure given the exact word count Mr. Chase could have also sold me on some swamp land in Florida.

However, Mr. Chase is right about a "chilling effect" on things like literature as I have also destroyed many expensive and legitimate art books that I owned. I simply fear that Free Speech in the US is in limbo or broken; with protection of the rights of the minority seemingly now a quaint and forgotten ideal. It is certainly now majority rule and oppression.
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hitokiriizo



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:13 pm Reply with quote
fxg97873 wrote:
It was informative. Though, the heart and motive of the article is to defend Mr. Chase's defense strategy (which many of us disagreed with). Although very convincing, I am sure given the exact word count Mr. Chase could have also sold me on some swamp land in Florida.

However, Mr. Chase is right about a "chilling effect" on things like literature as I have also destroyed many expensive and legitimate art books that I owned. I simply fear that Free Speech in the US is in limbo or broken; with protection of the rights of the minority seemingly now a quaint and forgotten ideal. It is certainly now majority rule and oppression.


free speech is still around...as long as what you say/do doesn't offend anyone and you have the $$ to buy the courts
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4796
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:39 pm Reply with quote
tuxedocat wrote:
I would be a bit worried about the Tactics doujinshi I have in my possession, seeing as how this obscenity "law" is so subjective to interpretation.. - I probably will be slightly more cautious about what I "receive" going forward.


If you have a certain Tactics doujinshi by Sakura Kinoshita, I will be happy to buy it off of you at the risk of my own self being jailed. Cool Some things the doujinshi collector in me just can't say no to.

Really though, even if he looks young Kantarou is at least 16 last I checked, so you should be ok.

I'm just waiting for the next case to pop up similar to Handley's and it turning out to be a girl in her late teens, early 20s. As a doujinshi collector the only other serious doujinshi collectors I come across are girls. I personally don't go out of my way for the hentai stuff, but if it's a certain circle/artist who releases it I feel an obligation to obtain it to complete my collection of that particular artist.

Circles like Patisserie and DeathGaze System stand a chance of getting me in trouble with the one hentai doujinshi done by them in a pile of otherwise "clean" doujinshi. But I just can't bring myself to get rid of the one doujinshi here or there because it'd be a hole in my collection, and dammit, they were hard to get ahold of in yahoo.jp auctions!

I'm not afraid to admit I own stuff of questionable material. I'm fully prepared to give my case on its artistic merit, and if that fails, I'll beg Neil Gaiman for help.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:58 pm Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
If you have a certain Tactics doujinshi by Sakura Kinoshita, I will be happy to buy it off of you at the risk of my own self being jailed. Cool Some things the doujinshi collector in me just can't say no to.

Really though, even if he looks young Kantarou is at least 16 last I checked, so you should be ok.


Anime smile + sweatdrop Embarassed Uh, yeah. That is probably one of those things in my collection that I just can't see myself selling at this point. If I ever get really desperate for money, though, I'll make sure to pm you first ....

--I'm not really worried about making a case for Kantarou's age, since his "childhood friends" in the manga are obviously well over the age of consent.

littlegreenwolf wrote:
I'm just waiting for the next case to pop up similar to Handley's and it turning out to be a girl in her late teens, early 20s. As a doujinshi collector the only other serious doujinshi collectors I come across are girls. I personally don't go out of my way for the hentai stuff, but if it's a certain circle/artist who releases it I feel an obligation to obtain it to complete my collection of that particular artist.


This is what I'm thinking. Out of defiance, I just ordered a couple of yaoi titles I've been waffling about for a while. Now I'm worried, due to the Handley case, that their publisher will let them go out-of-print.

littlegreenwolf wrote:
Circles like Patisserie and DeathGaze System stand a chance of getting me in trouble with the one hentai doujinshi done by them in a pile of otherwise "clean" doujinshi. But I just can't bring myself to get rid of the one doujinshi here or there because it'd be a hole in my collection, and dammit, they were hard to get ahold of in yahoo.jp auctions!

I'm not afraid to admit I own stuff of questionable material. I'm fully prepared to give my case on its artistic merit, and if that fails, I'll beg Neil Gaiman for help.


Yeah, it's kind of sad to see people getting all paranoid about what they might have in their possession that could get them in trouble with the "American Taliban". I'm choosing not to give in to fear.
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lalachan



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:48 am Reply with quote
This whole thing makes me sick. Where does the line get drawn? I one time got stopped at LAX for a random bag check on my way back from Japan with a suitcase half full of manga and doujin. I was nervous as all hell when they asked "Are these ALL comic books?" and I was so afraid they'd go through them but in the end they just kinda looked over them. If they had opened them up they probably would have thrown me in jail for five years. Cause there is stuff that bought without reading and when I opened it up, *shudders* Anyways, I digressed. The point is that I purchased the manga for my use. If someone has an issue with what manga I am reading in the privacy of my own home, I think then they should go stand outside "adult stores" and check people's bags. I personally find a fake vagoo with a hole that says "touch me to find how real I feel" and fetish masks to be offensive. Does that mean I think everyone who buys them is a pervert and should be thrown in prison for having them? No. Seeing how the manga he bought contained no REAL kids (and I even question if the kids weren't in fact teens) and is a drawing then it is up to the buyer to determine what its artistic value is. I watched a painting of a fat man with an erection sell for over 2000 dollars. Someone thought it was valuable. I'm just ranting but I'm seriously sickened by this.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5120
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:12 pm Reply with quote
bankai3232 wrote:
::deletes Fate Stay Night Story Images from Computer:: Really cool response from a guy who knows WTH he's talkin bout,


Do make sure to use the correct software to ensure that the files in question are actually overwritten; with hard drives (on Microsoft Operating Systems, anyway) data is only erased when it is actually overwritten. Google "erasing data from hard drives" for the details.
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thewizardninja



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:27 pm Reply with quote
So am I safe in assuming that the response shared by this community is "Even if the manga Handley owned could be considered obscene (which in itself is entirely a matter of opinion), that is not something that warrants a jail sentence"? So everybody's problem is not with the ruling itself (the ruling that labels his manga as "obscene") but with the sentence given?
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hitokiriizo



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:07 pm Reply with quote
thewizardninja wrote:
So am I safe in assuming that the response shared by this community is "Even if the manga Handley owned could be considered obscene (which in itself is entirely a matter of opinion), that is not something that warrants a jail sentence"? So everybody's problem is not with the ruling itself (the ruling that labels his manga as "obscene") but with the sentence given?

pretty much since everyone's idea of obscene differ's from person to person
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sirkoala13



Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 134
Location: Muscle Tower, U.S.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:48 pm Reply with quote
So, they're charging Handley for child pornography because the characters are underage. The characters. So, that would mean, with these stupid teen dramas they have now, like Degrassi and Secret Life of the American Teenager, even if the actual real life actors are overage, the teenage (underage) characters having sex and such would be an offense too. CN canceled nearly all anime, only leaving the repetitive kiddish ones, and now the government is suing someone for reciept of manga. It seems like every American in a suit is out to get anime.
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 pm Reply with quote
sirkoala13 wrote:
So, they're charging Handley for child pornography because the characters are underage. The characters. So, that would mean, with these stupid teen dramas they have now, like Degrassi and Secret Life of the American Teenager, even if the actual real life actors are overage, the teenage (underage) characters having sex and such would be an offense too. CN canceled nearly all anime, only leaving the repetitive kiddish ones, and now the government is suing someone for reciept of manga. It seems like every American in a suit is out to get anime.


I don't think that applies because the shows you mentioned don't really contain hardcore explicit content. If they did, though, it would still be ridiculous IMO.
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hitokiriizo



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:11 pm Reply with quote
just chalk it up to the puritanical conservatives and their lack of knowledge of foreign animation....just look a unicef trying to get japan to make that stuff illegal too
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Areaith



Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Rialto, CA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:59 pm Reply with quote
To tell the truth I lost interest in this article and the pointless ramblings of his lawyer.
So all I have to say is this: Saying that such things as lolicon being illegal is pointless. What is illegal are the sickos that would do that stuff to actual, real live, children. Those are the type of people that should be thrown in jail. I'm not saying that lolicon and shotacon is a all and all good thing, but just having it shouldn't be worth jail time. Since the "Iowa man" wasn't found with any "real" child porn, his charges shouldn't have become such a big deal.
That's just want I think anyway.
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Big Kahuna



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:01 am Reply with quote
Wow... if only Mr. Chase had defended his client like he defended himself. Thank you very much.

loser
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Hardgear





PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:07 am Reply with quote
thewizardninja wrote:
So am I safe in assuming that the response shared by this community is "Even if the manga Handley owned could be considered obscene (which in itself is entirely a matter of opinion), that is not something that warrants a jail sentence"? So everybody's problem is not with the ruling itself (the ruling that labels his manga as "obscene") but with the sentence given?


Not entirely, my problem is with the fact that obscenity laws exist in the first place. The sentence he got from the plea bargain was actually GOOD considering what he could have gotten according to the law. The problem is the law itself, it's very existence is dangerous.
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